If you have to give up GaLLINARI, you don't even blink twice, You do it!! You will always find another GALLANARI. There isn't too many Carmelo's out there. Chandler? You will find another Chandler, you will find another Felton. For crying out loud these guys are not superstars and will never become one.

Knicks got themselves an all star PF right now, they're being hopeful of obtaining a superstar scorer. If we need the knicks to someday beat Miami's or Chicago's, they're going to need 3 stars and bunch of role players. In today's game, thats the formula now: Look at boston and LA Fakers

bos: pierce, allen and garnett( might be 4)Rondo. La fakers: Kobe, Gasol and odom.

Having chandler, Gallo and whoever dont cut it for the knicks if they want to beat the very best in the NBA....

Get Carmelo now and imrpove the team over the summer then when Billups comes off, grab either Paul or Deron Wiliams depending on the Leaguues New CBA format.

FrenchKnicks wrote:I'm glad I was able to watch a Knicks team I like for a few months in over 10 years... back to stupid starpuking now... *sigh*

If you do that trade, you might as well bring Isiah back. It won't make a difference if you ask me. New York will NEVER be able to develop young players and be patient to see them raise to the top of the league. This fanbase really disappoints me these days. We have the worst owner in sport, and honestly, all the "trade the team for melo" talks are at that Dolan level.

Carmelo is 26 y/o. He is a player we can build around. Also- if you develop Chandler AND Fields AND Moz AND Gallinari we won't ever have cap room for another star to join. They'll hit their primes and "get it" (<-- no guarantee) in 3-4 years, when Stoudemire starts declining. We have a window NOW, the time to act upon it is NOW.

Lastly: Stop with this talk about mortgaging the franchise and giving up the future. We'll still have Fields and Mozgov, the two I am personally most excited about, to build around.

AmsterdamKnicksFan wrote:

FrenchKnicks wrote:I'm glad I was able to watch a Knicks team I like for a few months in over 10 years... back to stupid starpuking now... *sigh*

If you do that trade, you might as well bring Isiah back. It won't make a difference if you ask me. New York will NEVER be able to develop young players and be patient to see them raise to the top of the league. This fanbase really disappoints me these days. We have the worst owner in sport, and honestly, all the "trade the team for melo" talks are at that Dolan level.

Carmelo is 26 y/o. He is a player we can build around. Also- if you develop Chandler AND Fields AND Moz AND Gallinari we won't ever have cap room for another star to join. They'll hit their primes and "get it" (<-- no guarantee) in 3-4 years, when Stoudemire starts declining. We have a window NOW, the time to act upon it is NOW.

Lastly: Stop with this talk about mortgaging the franchise and giving up the future. We'll still have Fields and Mozgov, the two I am personally most excited about, to build around.

And shawne Williams and Tony Douglas.

So much for us having leverage. Denver is now in control.

nixluva wrote:People forget that Melo WANTS HIS MONEY. As do his agents. There's no way they want to wait for the FA market and risk losing money. They want their cake and to eat it too. This is why they've asked the Knicks to give up more than they wanted to and get the deal done this weekend. It's not about the Nuggets. It's about Melo wanting his deal signed now. If we didn't step up, he'd be forced to go with the Nets and that's why Dolan stepped up and gave in to the Nuggets.

People just don't understand this Nix---it's been a huge piece to this puzzle that some simply gloss right over time and time again...Hey, even I thought FA could've been an option at one point but it's become clear in recent weeks that the situation has evolved since then. THERE IS NO FA ANGLE FOR US TO WORK HERE!!! This dude wants financial closure to the matter immediately as in before the weekend is up...Even Barkley made a complete fool outta himself last night discussing this topic by saying (in substance) that he's "tired of talking about it" [OK don't then you fool--nobody here in NY can give two ****s about your biased, ignorant opinion anyway, trust me buddy ] and that the Knicks are crazy to be giving up so much and should just wait for FA. Then he challenged Carmelo just how much he really wants NY..Hahn lets Barkley off the hook in his latest blog a little bit (which is a damn good read btw) so I'll take him to task: Barkley doesn't get it man. First off this round mound of dog**** is still so damn anti-Knick from his playing days it's so painfully obvious (which he's gotta get over if he has any real interest in doing his job properly. It interfers with his ability to talk about the Knicks objectively. We all know he's basically there for the comedic value only, but come on man, do a little looking into this topic before commenting on it on national TV for God's sake), and second, just like some posters on here who are still talking about getting Melo in FA, Barkley was just plain old off base: never once did he mention that there's a new CBA looming plus a possible player lockout and that Melo stands to lose a lot of money, more than your average FA in recent times.

Now having said all this, I gotta say after thinking long and hard about this since last night (and reading Alan Hahn's blog this morning which as I said is a damn good one and makes a ton of sense), I don't think Carmelo ever cared enough to use his leverage in the Knicks' favor..I mean he even initiated talks with James Dolan recently not really to gauge the Knicks interest (he's knows damn well they're interested) but to see if the Knicks we're really interested in trading for him, as if to tell Jimmy D, 'get me now or forget getting me. I won't be there this summer.' I mean that kinda pisses me off as a Knicks fan, esp. when you consider what he could've done with his leverage..That told me right there that FA was never really an option..We spent weeks upon weeks here talking about this dude's "leverage" and in the end of the day, Hahn's right on the money: he never bothered to use it in the Knicks' favor..I now firmly believe this to be so. Hahn's current take on the situation is correct: Melo still could've played this MUCH MUCH better for the Knicks..Instead of coming out and telling Denver he really wants to sign with the Knicks and the Knicks only weeks ago, he decided to play it coy and mysterious and in the end, that will wind up costing the Knicks extra in this trade. Maybe a lot extra (I just can't swallow the Ray Felton part of this trade--for me, we had to get this guy and keep our starting backcourt intact and it looks like we didn't do that As Hahn states, now we're gonna need a PG by the end of the 2012 season, maybe even by the beginning of next year if we exercise the Billups buyout..He's right, I said the same thing the day before yesterday). Melo could've seen to it indirectly or directly that we at least salvaged some of the roster by opening up his mouth and using his leverage in the Knicks' favor and it appears he didn't do that..I was as big a Melo-to-the-Knicks supporter as there was on this board even as recent as 24 hrs ago---now I'm not sure anymore. We really gave up too much now I'm thinking and Melo is really coming off as greedy player that couldn't care less about the state of his future team's roster once he arrives..It's not gonna happen because Dolan's gonna pull the trigger on this even if he has to give up his mother, but honestly, I'm turned off with this right now..If we walked away from this, I wouldn't be all that upset.

Here's Hahn's latest Fix from his blog btw: http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/the-knicks-fix-1.812055/carmelo-has-leverage-but-it-s-working-against-knicks-1.2698365?showAll=true

Carmelo has leverage, but it's working against Knicks

Carmelo Anthony knew where I was going when I asked the question. It was quite simple and something just about everyone in the league -- even Charles Barkley gets it -- wondered when talking about this ongoing saga.Why not just tell Denver you will only sign the extension with the one team you want to go to?

"Yeah, I can, but then they have to do what's best for their organization, too," he said. "So at the end of the day, they can say, 'Forget it, we have to take care of our organization . . . We have to do what we have to do'."

I took that to mean he isn't confident that would work because the Nuggets might just keep him rather than trade him or trade him to a team without an extension. I also took it to mean he really had no interest in waiting this out to free agency, which is what LeBron James, Chris Bosh and Amar'e Stoudemire did. And you know what else LeBron and Bosh did? They took a little less than the max to make sure they could fit their Big Three plan together plus add a few pieces (Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem) to have a decent supporting cast around them. Carmelo isn't showing a lot of consideration for a supporting cast by eschewing free agency and going for the $65 million payday now.

"Time is ticking, man," he said of his anxiety. "And time is money."

And with all that said, Denver is unpredictable. While sources have told us the Nuggets, like Carmelo, want to leave All-Star weekend with a trade in place so they can address other areas before Thursday's deadline, there is still reason to be concerned that Josh Kroenke won't find the Knicks latest offer -- Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton and a first round pick, plus over $6 million in cap and luxury tax savings, plus $3 million cash considerations -- suitable either. Denver has upped the ante throughout this entire process and what's stopping them from seeing if James Dolan and Donnie Walsh will go even further beyond the self-imposed limits they've already overstepped. This is not at a point where Dolan is the one making the call. This, multiple sources say, is now up to Denver to accept. Walsh worked with Nuggets GM Masai Ujiri to get to parameters where a month ago the Nuggets weren't even talking to the Knicks. Dolan only stepped into the process when it reached the ownership level with Josh Kroenke (and, from a distance, his father, Stan, who now owns the St. Louis Rams and by NFL rules is not allowed to be directly involved with another pro team).

Make no mistake, the Knicks want Anthony. They're proving it with the effort they've put forth over the last week of negotiations with some of the coveted names they've agreed to include in the deal. If this falls through at this point, Carmelo can't walk away thinking the Knicks didn't try hard enough.

In fact, perhaps he should wonder if he tried hard enough. But just like the rest of us who are trying to cover this ordeal, Carmelo also has a lot of information that needs to be digested. The greatest concern involves something no one can predict: the next collective bargaining agreement.

Anthony admitted the uncertainty of the CBA and the potential for a lockout and a more restrictive system that could cost him millions as a free agent "is in the back of my mind." But what he might need to learn -- it would be nice if his agent, Leon Rose, explained it to him -- is something we've discussed previously at the Fix and was brought up today among the owners in the CBA meetings: a new system (read: hard cap) may also require all current contracts to be rolled back a certain percentage. It's what the NHL did in 2005 in their CBA, which cost an entire season.

Either way, Carmelo may wind up losing money just like everyone else. What remains to be seen is if he'd lose LESS money by signing a contract now rather than entering free agency under a system that limits how much he can command annually.

Easy for me to say because it's not my money, but if Carmelo did go into free agency and signed with the Knicks, his lower starting point (say, $16M) would give the Knicks a little more room in the budget, especially in 2012, when the team is certain to be in the market for Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Let's face it, if Denver accepts the most recent offer the Knicks made, which, as we reported in Saturday's Newsday, would include a swap of Felton for 34-year-old Chauncey Billups, the Knicks would definitely need a point guard by '12.

Let's also not forget that Billups accounts for $14.2M in 2011-12, twice the hit of Felton's $7.5M salary. The Knicks could save money, however, by waiving Billups after this season ends. If he is waived within five days following the last game of the season (playoffs count), then only $3.7M of his salary is guaranteed for 2011-12. That opens up a significant amount of space, but it also leaves a huge hole at the point guard position. Perhaps the Knicks could try to swing a trade for someone such as Ramon Sessions, who, by then will be in the final year of his contract with the Cavaliers at $4.2M. Whomever they get would be the fifth starting point guard the team will have in six seasons.

But let's even dismiss the money aspect. Let's look at this from a team perspective. If Carmelo used his leverage and told Denver he would only sign an extension with the Knicks, that would give the Knicks an advantage in negotiations. There would be no phantom second bidder, no leaks involving talks with the Nets and impending deals to cause panic within the Knicks organization. The Nuggets would have to decide between taking a return of, say, just Chandler and Corey Brewer, a first round pick and some serious cash savings for Carmelo, or holding onto him for a playoff run and then watching him walk out the door the way LeBron, Bosh and Amar'e did. Then Denver would be left with a sign-and-trade option with maybe a first rounder in return as compensation.

In this scenario, the Knicks can keep more of their roster intact, with Felton still running the point and Danilo Gallinari as instant offense off the bench.

More importantly, the Knicks also have Gallinari as a chip to trade in 2012 when it'll be time for the Hornets (Paul), Jazz (Williams) and Magic (Dwight Howard) to endure the same experience with their impending free agent stars that the Nuggets are enduring right now with Carmelo. So you can talk about salary cap space in 2012, but let's be honest, those teams may have to trade those players if they can't get them to commit to an extension. The Knicks may have cap space in '12, but they may need assets instead to be a player before the 2012 trade deadline. If you take too much off this roster now, you won't have much to offer then.

[By the way, this deal also puts a lot of pressure on the Knicks first round pick in 2011, which the Rockets have the right to swap but they would only do it if Houston (26-31) finishes with a better record than the Knicks (28-26). Right now, it looks like the Knicks will keep their pick, but it obviously won't be a high one. But without a 2012 first rounder, the Knicks have to get something good out of their '11 draft just to restock their assets.]

Bottom line is, Carmelo isn't really thinking about the Knicks here or what would be best to build a championship roster. He wants what he wants, which is to be on the Knicks with the extension. Then it'll be up to the Knicks to build that team around him and Amar'e with a restrictive system and limited assets.

But I don't want to sound like a hypocrite here, especially after we endorsed the effort to get Carmelo since last summer. The indisputable fact is you are getting a superstar. You're getting an upgrade in your starting lineup and a player that now helps you offensively neutralize players like Paul Pierce and LeBron James at the small forward spot. Amar'e neutralizes Kevin Garnett and Chris Bosh.

I asked Doc Rivers if he thought the Knicks get significantly better by adding Carmelo and he shot an incredulous look and said, "Yeah, Carmelo's pretty good."

He then explained what most executives have said about the deal: this is a stars league and you're now about to have two of them.

"Listen, we went out and got talent and I just think the better your players, the better your team," Rivers then said. "If they're all willing to play together."

That'll be on Mike D'Antoni, who won't be thrilled about the fact that he now has two needers and no feeders. Felton hasn't exactly dominated the pick-and-roll, but he does distribute the ball extremely well. Billups is more of a shooter, not a playmaker. The system should take care of things as long as Anthony and Stoudemire can co-exist with unselfish play, but you still need a floor general. That's what will make getting prepared for 2012 so important and why Donnie Walsh's job is far, far from done.

foosballnick wrote:Gotta love it. Same people who are blasting the Knicks for this proposed trade will be the same ones blasting the Knicks if Melo goes to the Nyets.

The Knicks offered a choice of forward Danilo Gallinari or rookie guard Landry Fields on Friday, and Denver officials preferred Gallinari, a source with knowledge of the talks said. The proposed deal would send Gallinari, point guard Raymond Felton, forward Wilson Chandler, Eddy Curry’s expiring contract and a first-round pick to the Nuggets for Anthony, point guard Chauncey Billups, Renaldo Balkman and Shelden Williams. Yahoo! Sports

If Denver keeps adding to this by asking for Fields or Moz, then just say No and walk away.

I think the thing that is upsetting is that we are trading 3 of our starters who were all playing well, really hustled, had great team spirit, are all good guys and fan favorites, and the team was over .500. This trade totally changes the team but the starting team has improved and gives us a better chance this year at advancing in the playoffs. No question about it.

orangeblobman wrote:I don't like this at all. I think of what the Lakers gave up for Pau Gasol and I look at what we're giving up. They're skinning us alive, we're screaming in pain.

Dolan's obese paws are all over this.

Our Ex GM isn't running the Nuggets.

I just don't understand why Melo would sign with the Nets and basically be alone, when he could play with Amare.

scoshin wrote:I'd be more okay with this deal if Felton wasn't included. I really don't get the need for the swap as Billups is a hometown favorite and Felton's been a warrior for us. If they just want to save money, I'd rather we take on Birdman (or even Harrington), before we swap Felton for Billups.

That's the part I like. Felton is a Marbury-lite, better disguised. Billups is a true point that knows how to run a team. His experience is the perfect addition to offset the youth on our roster.

With Billups, we can push deep into the playoffs.