My point in asking is because I would hope that once a team gets 2 elite players I think the rest of the team commits to making their all around game better...especially on the defensive end. Boston and Miami are good examples of this. LeBron was always a great defender, but I'm not so sure Wade and Bosh were always as good as they've been this year.

My hope is that if Carmelo gets here the rest of the team will commit to playing tough D, working around screens, etc....

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Yes, KG was always an elite defender in Minnesota. It's actually offense where he's never been totally elite - he doesn't really have a go-to move on offense that makes him unstoppable. He won in Boston because he was finally teamed with some elite offensive perimeter players in Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.

he was always regarded as a poor finisher and below average 4th qtr player when compared to other MVP types just for this reason.

MSG3... expecting a player to do something that they havent done in their career is bad planning right? Would you want to rely on Jason Kidd to shoot 3's or for Nash to be a great m2m defender or for Rashard Lewis to be a great rebounder?

Amare has never been a great rebounder. OK, but for his size, position and athleticism I would certainly say he's below average. If you building around him you need to address that weakness and the Knicks are struggling with that right now.

Melo is actually a very good rebounder for his size. He's the same size as Wilson and is averaging about 2rebs more per game. He gets about 8rpg this season, which is quite good for a 6'8" SF.

Its Fields is a great rebounder for his size and best at his position. Still we are getting killed on the boards. Chandler and Gallo are usually not in position and one wing has to get back on D.

If Fields is coming in for a rebound you usually see Gallo or Wilson help Felton getting back on defense.

We suck at rebounding but look how good amare is when he got a big with him?

Nalod wrote:Melo does a good job on the offensive boards getting his own putbacks and those of others. Im not saying it to hate, just saying its a stat that looks good.

Its Fields is a great rebounder for his size and best at his position. Still we are getting killed on the boards. Chandler and Gallo are usually not in position and one wing has to get back on D.

If Fields is coming in for a rebound you usually see Gallo or Wilson help Felton getting back on defense.

We suck at rebounding but look how good amare is when he got a big with him?

I agree that Fields is a beast on the boards. He's a perfect fit next to Amare and Melo if we can arrange that.

Felton
Fields
Melo
Amare
Good defensive center

that's a contending team for 4-5 years.

crzymdups wrote:

Nalod wrote:Melo does a good job on the offensive boards getting his own putbacks and those of others. Im not saying it to hate, just saying its a stat that looks good.

Its Fields is a great rebounder for his size and best at his position. Still we are getting killed on the boards. Chandler and Gallo are usually not in position and one wing has to get back on D.

If Fields is coming in for a rebound you usually see Gallo or Wilson help Felton getting back on defense.

We suck at rebounding but look how good amare is when he got a big with him?

I agree that Fields is a beast on the boards. He's a perfect fit next to Amare and Melo if we can arrange that.

Felton
Fields
Melo
Amare
Good defensive center

that's a contending team for 4-5 years.

That right there is a Championship team starting 5, mate

ramtour420 wrote:

Nalod wrote:This is all playing out like I thought it would. Logically.

The thing has always been Melos resolve to go into free agency if he does not get to land where he wants.

He is also trying to do it without hurting his brand.

Other than his wife wanting to be the only reason I see him leaving is Denver ownership is going on the cheap.

Regarding his making money for the team and being bound as a slave I think is a stretch. Melo could have tested free agency 4 years ago when his rookie deal expired and could have gone last summer. This is his year to OPT OUT. There is a 65 million dollar extension on top of his 18mil salary for next year (barring lockout) so I hardly call EIGHT THREE MILLION DOLLARS anything close to being unfair if he is held in bondage.

The best negotiators create a win-win scenario to get what you want. some have preached trading for melo no matter what the cost "and figure the rest out later" but "the rest out later" is what wins you championships. The names Bill Wennington, Wil Purdue, Luc Longley, John paxton, Steve Kerr, dennis rodman, etc etc all have championship rings with the bulls. Its the support team that makes the stars shine brightest and reach the pinnacle of greatness.

Get melo, but a good chess player things in different dimensions and steps ahead of his/her opponent.

Around here only OBM (Orangeblobman) comes close to thinking in such terms!

Not sure if this is a diss, or the genuine recognition that OBM is finally getting for his input. However, let me assure you that OBM is not the only one around here that thinks in those terms. Go KNicks ! Screw Dolan !

The OBM is awsome! There are others but the OBM got style!

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=howard_johnette&id=6102786

Learn from Yankees and get Melo now
Hey, Knicks: Don't let L.A. get in the way -- land Anthony before he slips away like Lee

The trump card the New York Knicks have always held in their months-long chase of Carmelo Anthony has been the Denver star's refusal to sign a contract extension with any other suitor. But that all changes now if the Los Angeles Lakers make a credible pitch for Anthony by the Feb. 24 trade deadline.

The Yanks had a chance to land Cliff Lee last summer. They didn't, and he went to Philly come winter.

With Anthony reportedly willing to play for L.A., the Knicks' leverage is suddenly so weakened they'd be smart to remember this name: Eduardo Nuñez. Then adopt a new MeloDrama strategy: Prepare to overpay.

You say you don't remember Nuñez?

That's the point.

Nuñez is the shortstop prospect Seattle asked for as the last piece in a package deal that could've brought Cliff Lee to the Bronx last summer. The Yankees said no.

Big mistake. The Yankees now suspect their escalating offer was just being used to squeeze a better deal, but by refusing to part with Nuñez they may never know for sure. Texas stole Lee away by upping its 11th-hour offer to Seattle, and Lee helped the Rangers beat the Yankees in the playoffs to get to the World Series.

The Yankees figured they could, at worst, still get Lee as a free agent in the offseason without giving up any players -- which is the same scenario the Knicks have internally debated when it comes to raising their offer for Anthony. But the Yankees were wrong again. Lee signed with the Phillies instead. And the Yankees' starting pitching problems remain.

The Lakers have replaced the Phillies as the stealth candidate in this latest superstar-to-New York saga. And the Knicks would be smart to learn from the Yankees' reticence. Adding Nuñez to get Lee doesn't look like overextending themselves, in hindsight.

If the Knicks can finally end their chase of Anthony by adding either Danilo Gallinari or Landry Fields to the current three-way deal that's on the table -- the Knicks would send Wilson Chandler to Denver and Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry to Minnesota -- then the Knicks should do it already.

And if Denver insists on Chandler, Gallinari and Fields, the Knicks could even be forgiven for gritting their teeth and making that deal, too. They supposedly overpaid for Amare Stoudemire but look how that's worked out. Time to make the Nuggets an offer they can't refuse.

The Knicks would still need to add pieces to win a title. But here's why you do it: Because 26-year-old superstars like Anthony shake loose in the NBA about as infrequently as pitching aces like Lee do. Because NBA history over the last few decades shows that teams without at least two superstars generally don't win titles anymore. Because no one knows if the new collective bargaining agreement the NBA has to negotiate before next season will change the salary cap, or perhaps even allow Denver to slap something like a franchise tag on Anthony.

The Knicks would be wiser to lock up Anthony now rather than wait and roll the dice on free agency like the Yankees did with Lee.

After all, it's not a stretch to imagine that Anthony would want -- even prefer -- to play for a Lakers franchise that is chasing a three-peat, already has Kobe Bryant and has shown an impressive ability over the years to be able to reload on the fly.

Nor would it be a stretch if the Nuggets tell the Knicks now that they prefer a Lakers package built around young center Andrew Bynum to anything Minnesota and the Knicks are offering.

But there's an obvious Knicks' counter to that argument, too.

Does Denver really want to let Anthony stay in the Western Conference at all -- let alone help re-establish the now-drifting Lakers as the team to beat in the West by helping them put Carmelo, Kobe and Pau Gasol together? Really?

Expect a bit of a wait to find out.

Anthony is likely to be dealt later rather than sooner if the Lakers are involved. Don't be surprised if the pressure is allowed to keep building, building, building on all sides right up until the trade deadline. The Knicks could afford to ignore the better offers that teams like New Jersey were throwing at Denver when Anthony was only willing to sign a contract extension with them. But if the Lakers are involved? No.

The Lakers would like to have Anthony. The success-starved Knicks need him far, far more. So if the question before the Knicks now is whether to overpay a little to make it happen, the answer should be easy: Remember Nuñez. Then pull the trigger already.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Unless an offer Donnie can't refuse is on the table, I still believe they should wait, but I thought I'd add this anyway..

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=howard_johnette&id=6102786

Learn from Yankees and get Melo now
Hey, Knicks: Don't let L.A. get in the way -- land Anthony before he slips away like Lee

The trump card the New York Knicks have always held in their months-long chase of Carmelo Anthony has been the Denver star's refusal to sign a contract extension with any other suitor. But that all changes now if the Los Angeles Lakers make a credible pitch for Anthony by the Feb. 24 trade deadline.

The Yanks had a chance to land Cliff Lee last summer. They didn't, and he went to Philly come winter.

With Anthony reportedly willing to play for L.A., the Knicks' leverage is suddenly so weakened they'd be smart to remember this name: Eduardo Nuñez. Then adopt a new MeloDrama strategy: Prepare to overpay.

You say you don't remember Nuñez?

That's the point.

Nuñez is the shortstop prospect Seattle asked for as the last piece in a package deal that could've brought Cliff Lee to the Bronx last summer. The Yankees said no.

Big mistake. The Yankees now suspect their escalating offer was just being used to squeeze a better deal, but by refusing to part with Nuñez they may never know for sure. Texas stole Lee away by upping its 11th-hour offer to Seattle, and Lee helped the Rangers beat the Yankees in the playoffs to get to the World Series.

The Yankees figured they could, at worst, still get Lee as a free agent in the offseason without giving up any players -- which is the same scenario the Knicks have internally debated when it comes to raising their offer for Anthony. But the Yankees were wrong again. Lee signed with the Phillies instead. And the Yankees' starting pitching problems remain.

The Lakers have replaced the Phillies as the stealth candidate in this latest superstar-to-New York saga. And the Knicks would be smart to learn from the Yankees' reticence. Adding Nuñez to get Lee doesn't look like overextending themselves, in hindsight.

If the Knicks can finally end their chase of Anthony by adding either Danilo Gallinari or Landry Fields to the current three-way deal that's on the table -- the Knicks would send Wilson Chandler to Denver and Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry to Minnesota -- then the Knicks should do it already.

And if Denver insists on Chandler, Gallinari and Fields, the Knicks could even be forgiven for gritting their teeth and making that deal, too. They supposedly overpaid for Amare Stoudemire but look how that's worked out. Time to make the Nuggets an offer they can't refuse.

The Knicks would still need to add pieces to win a title. But here's why you do it: Because 26-year-old superstars like Anthony shake loose in the NBA about as infrequently as pitching aces like Lee do. Because NBA history over the last few decades shows that teams without at least two superstars generally don't win titles anymore. Because no one knows if the new collective bargaining agreement the NBA has to negotiate before next season will change the salary cap, or perhaps even allow Denver to slap something like a franchise tag on Anthony.

The Knicks would be wiser to lock up Anthony now rather than wait and roll the dice on free agency like the Yankees did with Lee.

After all, it's not a stretch to imagine that Anthony would want -- even prefer -- to play for a Lakers franchise that is chasing a three-peat, already has Kobe Bryant and has shown an impressive ability over the years to be able to reload on the fly.

Nor would it be a stretch if the Nuggets tell the Knicks now that they prefer a Lakers package built around young center Andrew Bynum to anything Minnesota and the Knicks are offering.

But there's an obvious Knicks' counter to that argument, too.

Does Denver really want to let Anthony stay in the Western Conference at all -- let alone help re-establish the now-drifting Lakers as the team to beat in the West by helping them put Carmelo, Kobe and Pau Gasol together? Really?

Expect a bit of a wait to find out.

Anthony is likely to be dealt later rather than sooner if the Lakers are involved. Don't be surprised if the pressure is allowed to keep building, building, building on all sides right up until the trade deadline. The Knicks could afford to ignore the better offers that teams like New Jersey were throwing at Denver when Anthony was only willing to sign a contract extension with them. But if the Lakers are involved? No.

The Lakers would like to have Anthony. The success-starved Knicks need him far, far more. So if the question before the Knicks now is whether to overpay a little to make it happen, the answer should be easy: Remember Nuñez. Then pull the trigger already.

There isn't really a lesson to be learned from the Yanks/Cliff lee situation till we see how many good years Lee has left vs. what this Nunez kid becomes no?

there's 1 major problem w/comparing this situation to the Melo one... that is that Cliff Lee's camp has never once made it known that he would only sign an extension with the Yankees at any point in time... that means SEA always held some leverage in trying to find the best package of talent to get back for him in any trade... DEN really has no leverage, they're trying to create some out of thin air by getting teams like the Lakers involved, even though the Lakers have already made it known they're not interested in trading Bynum.

Nalod wrote:
IF we land Melo I hope the starphuchers who hate on our defense realize Melo don't get paid to play Defense.

He couldn't guard a bar stool if asked.

Just so we all clear about this.

It will be more reason to "justify" that MDA doesn't coach defense ... oh I can almost see the threads already.