smackeddog wrote:Good article from Tmmy Beer at hoopsworld:

"NEW YORK, Aug. 6, 2010 - Isiah Thomas has officially been re-hired and named a consultant to the New York Knicks, it was announced today…"

The above sentence reads like the lead-in to the punch line in to one of David Letterman's jokes during his monologue… Or the start to some fictitious column penned by Bill "Sports Guy" Simmons meant solely to poke fun at the fragile psyche of beleaguered Knick fans… Or a nightmare from which any New York basketball fan worth his salt would wake up from sweating and scared out of his mind, until he realized he had only been dreaming and could nod off back to sleep knowing it was only imagined delirium … Or maybe the first line in an article in "The Onion."

Only problem is, the Knicks really are re-hiring Isiah Thomas. It is a sad, depressing reality that Knicks fans are somehow, someway going to have to wrap their heads around.

In other breaking news, FEMA has re-hired Michael Brown and BP has re-hired CEO Tony Hayward. And the Atlanta Falcons are checking into Bobby Petrino's availability, and the Detroit Lions have asked Matt Millen if he is interested in taking another shot at running the team as a GM.

All kidding aside, yesterday's announcement that Knicks owner James Dolan is welcoming Isiah Thomas back into the fold is beyond rational comprehension. It is a slap in the face to all of the organization's loyal fans, especially those that have supported the Knicks through the debacle that has been the last decade.

I suppose it is debatable whether or not Isiah Thomas is in fact the worst executive in the history of all of professional sports, but he is certainly in the conversation. By any standard method of measurement, Isiah's four-plus years in New York were a complete and unmitigated disaster. The overall record, 133-231, including a 53-101 mark as head coach, is horrendous. (You could also tack on one more defeat if you count the loss Isiah and MSG suffered in the infamous sexual harassment lawsuit.) The trades were been dreadful. The free-agent signings were laughable. There is no need to get into specifics at this point, we are all well aware of the irreparable damage that was done.

As an aside, I always find it humorous when some try to defend Isiah and claim he is an incomparably skilled evaluator of talent. Yes, he had some very good picks (David Lee and Trevor Ariza, whom he would later trade for Steve Francis!), but let's not forget Isiah also drafted Renaldo Balkman one spot ahead of Rajon Rondo, when the Knicks desperately needed a point guard. In addition, he took Channing Frye ahead of Andrew Bynum and Danny Granger.

However, getting involved in a debate regarding Isiah's overall performance is a waste of time because no sane, sensible human being could ever believe Thomas is in any way qualified to be involved in the front office of any organization - be it a local McDonalds franchise, let alone a multi-million dollar sports team. Well, no person other than James Dolan, that is. And since Dolan is the owner of the New York Knicks, and apparently has some morbid fascination with the train wreck that is Isiah Thomas, New Yorkers are despondently shaking their heads in disbelief this morning.

Now, some might argue that, on the surface, the announcement that Isiah Thomas has been hired as a "consultant" doesn't seem as if it should set off the alarm bells it has in NYC. However, there are some very disturbing causes for concern.

First, there was absolutely no reason for the Knicks to make this public. Sports franchises, as many other high-profile, multi-tiered organizations frequently add periphery employees, such as consultants or advisors. This is common practice. The vast majority of the time no public pronouncements are made. It is alarming that Dolan choose to made an grand proclamation and issue a statement that read" "Isiah Thomas brings unique experience as a Hall of Fame player, coach, executive and owner, and we believe having him as part of our organization will be extremely beneficial to the team's success." It appears Dolan is doing his best to try and assist Thomas' attempts to re-ingratiate himself within NBA circles, and eventually angle for another GM job.

The other distressing factor is Donnie Walsh's advanced age and deteriorating health. When Walsh was hired as team president, all parties understood that this wouldn't be a 20-year marriage due to the fact that Walsh is nearing the end of his career as a basketball executive. Although Donnie hasn't tabbed a general manager to take over when he retires, it was assumed former Knick Allan Houston was being groomed for a significant role within the organization. Moreover, there are number of qualified GM's out of work and on the open market. Kevin Pritchard, Mark Warkentien, and Rod Thorn, just to name a few. All three of these individuals would represent significant additions to the Knicks front office. But are we to read between the lines of Dolan's latest bonehead decision and wonder if he views Isiah as Walsh's ultimate successor? Furthermore, if you were Thorn or Pritchard and had to choose your future place of employment, would you feel comfortable working alongside Isiah, knowing he was likely gunning for you job behind the scenes? (Check out Isiah's comment ESPN yesterday: "I've always said that if there's a GM position that should ever open that I would be interested in going back to the NBA as a GM for the right spot and the right opportunity.")

Or, as a potential GM candidate, would you feel confident working for an employer that doesn't have the common sense to realize that Thomas is a plague that should be avoided at all costs. Failing to properly review his resume and hiring him the first time was bad enough; but allowing yourself to be sucked back into that vortex… c'mon.

Fool me once, shame on you. Destroy my franchise and turn my team into a league-wide laughingstock and I still hire Isiah back again, shame on me…

The worst part about this recent news was that it finally appeared the Knicks were begging to turn the corner. Despite missing out on the LeBron Lottery, Donnie and the Knicks had a very successful offseason, with Amar'e Stoudemire being the first big piece to the puzzle. (And please don't even intimate that Isiah was responsible for recruiting Amar'e to NYC. Amar'e himself has said that he would have stayed in Phoenix had the Suns has offered him the same contract. The Knicks gave Stoudemire $100 bucks, that's why he chose the Knicks, not because of Isiah's charming smile or quick wit.)

Then Walsh made the terrific trade with Golden State, parlaying David Lee (who had one foot out the door was leaving anyway) into a future star in the extremely exciting Anthony Randolph, and two solid role players in Azubuike and Turiaf. Raymond Felton the key ingredient added, supplying Mike D'Antoni with the solid starting point guard he has ached for since leaving the Valley of the Sun.

This is a young team, with enticing upside and the potential for great growth. In addition, the organization had a clear leader and sound decision-maker in Donnie Walsh, who the unquestioned director, responsible for calling the shots.

For the first time in (seemingly) forever, there was a light at the end of the tunnel and future looked relatively promising.

Now, that bright future seems as if it could be in jeopardy...

The ominous dark cloud of Isiah Thomas' specter is hovering hauntingly close to Madison Square Garden. History tells us that dark, dreary days lay ahead if Thomas is able to snake his way back in Dolan's good graces to the point where he is put in charge of this franchise once more.

It took Donnie Walsh and company over two years to clean out the foul stench that had permeated every crevice of MSG. Virulent, vituperative weeds had overrun the Garden, which was teeming with dreariness and depression.

Two years of Walsh's arduous and excruciating efforts will all be for naught if he is replaced by Isiah Thomas.

Yes, it's a sad day for Knicks fans everywhere. The only question is whether or not worse ones will follow…

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17029#ixzz0vzzi8U6Z

this article sounds like someone from UK wrote it... i don't think anyone's trying to defend Isiah's tenure by pointing out his drafting prowess.

CrushAlot wrote:

misterearl wrote:NYT

No Need for Panic, Knicks Fans

By HOWARD BECK

Isiah Thomas is back, and it is hard to imagine a four-word statement that would inspire so much dread among Knicks fans — unless the words “Isiah Thomas” were substituted with “Stephon Marbury,” “Jerome James” or “Larry Brown.”

When the Knicks announced Friday that Thomas was returning as a consultant, it sparked a predictable torrent of outrage and derision. To commentators, the hiring was comical. To Knicks fans, tragic. It is not entirely clear, however, just how much panic is warranted.

Thomas’s new job is ambiguous and limited. According to the team’s statement, he will assist in scouting prospects and recruiting free agents. He will rank, at best, seventh in the basketball operations hierarchy, behind Donnie Walsh (the team president), Glen Grunwald (senior vice president), Misho Ostarcevic (director of player personnel), John Gabriel (director of pro scouting and free agency), Jamie Mathews (vice president) and Coach Mike D’Antoni.

In effect, Thomas is merely resuming the role he had from April 2008 through April 2009, when Walsh — after replacing Thomas — made him an informal adviser. In that year, Thomas did some scouting and provided sporadic feedback to Walsh.

Although he was removed as the president and coach, Thomas was never fired as an employee. He left the Knicks after accepting the coaching job at Florida International University in April 2009. Had he not taken that job, Thomas might have remained with the Knicks indefinitely —placing him in exactly the same position he is in now, as a part-time adviser with no authority.

The fact that this was made public is very concerning. It is hard not to react to what Isola is repoting. Isola talks specifically about Isiah and Dolan's relationship currently and some of their encounters. Based on Dolan's loyalty and demonstrated ignorance in regards to running the team, the entire situation is very concerning. I think it would be a mistake to not question and react to this move.

not from where i stand. he's been a muckraking reporter since i can remember. he's made ridiculous claims based on little to zero evidence multiple times from what i can recall.

you don't have to like the move, but howard beck laid down the facts, not myths based on fear.

isola is a dick cheney like writer.

to think there is much chance isiah will become gm again is not based on much at all. this is bad enough for many fans, and dolan is stupid enough to do this, sure, but i also think this is about $$$$$$$$$$$ and making Isiah earn all of the cash dolan gave him.

i would guess that the reason this was announced was that if he was already on the payroll it would be better to get it out during the time of the year that the least amount of fans pay attention to the nba rather than have isola or berman do an "investigative report" with an "insider" from MSG who has the information, a vandetta against someone at MSG and "leaks" it, where Isola can claim the Knicks are hiding this because of his baseless speculation that he is already touting that isiah will become gm/prez again.

When I asked him last month about the possibility, he told me Stern would never allow it.

Again, seems like his personal opinion.

Although he was removed as the president and coach, Thomas was never fired as an employee.

that's a HUGE leap of logic...in fact it's not logic, it's called speculation based on no real evidence...if this were a court it would be deemed inadmissible because there is no real basis.

we can only go by the facts, but to traumatized knick fans facts get in the way. i recognize isiah hurt the team immensely, but to say "nothing good will come of Isiah Thomas in this organization" goes against what TMS outlined regarding some of his draft picks, and only the most traumatized appear to refuse to even listen to.

Secondly, you keep stating that there are no sources that say Isiah won't return as gm/prez.

Are there any sources that tell us Jesus won't return either?

This kind of thing is UNPROVABLE and OPINION based mostly on speculation.

No reporter with any ethics would ever write such nonsense, but of course with Isola ethics don't exactly fit with his muckraking style of speculative b.s.

ISIAH WAS NEVER FIRED AS AN MSG EMPLPOYEE, according to beck.

sure, it's possible isiah returns but this isn't a billy martin situation. billy won with the yankees, isiah never won ish, and is hated by the fan base. dolan is not the smartest man in the world, but bringing isiah back as gm/prez is just too implausible to believe, even with the record here.

why, if he was so stupid, did he listen to stern to get walsh in charge and allow him to do what he's done the past two years? he cares about making money, and with the nets coming to bk it doesn't take much for any idiot to see that infuriating the fans with isiah back in charge would be beyond dumb.

beck, a legit journalist (fortunately), is showing us the facts that point out that isiah's role is going to be limited, and in no way is there any kind of indication that isiah will be back as gm. that's propaganda from the muckraking ny tabloids, and our own paranoia.

again, sure...possible, but i wouldn't wager a cent on such a thing to transpire.

PresIke wrote:c'mon, evil. i hear you, but look at the evidence. this is clearly, mostly about dolan wanting isiah to earn the $$$ he gave him, and what less freaked out fans understand caters to isiah's strength, scouting for late picks -- which we are expecting to have over the next few years.

ISIAH WAS NEVER FIRED AS AN MSG EMPLPOYEE, according to beck.

sure, it's possible isiah returns but this isn't a billy martin situation. billy won with the yankees, isiah never won ish, and is hated by the fan base. dolan is not the smartest man in the world, but bringing isiah back as gm/prez is just too implausible to believe, even with the record here.

why, if he was so stupid, did he listen to stern to get walsh in charge and allow him to do what he's done the past two years? he cares about making money, and with the nets coming to bk it doesn't take much for any idiot to see that infuriating the fans with isiah back in charge would be beyond dumb.

beck, a legit journalist (fortunately), is showing us the facts that point out that isiah's role is going to be limited, and in no way is there any kind of indication that isiah will be back as gm. that's propaganda from the muckraking ny tabloids, and our own paranoia.

again, sure...possible, but i wouldn't wager a cent on such a thing to transpire.

I really hope you're wrong about that. We need Cap'n Zeke back here.

Childs2Dudley wrote:

PresIke wrote:so you're suggesting we HAVE to assume the Knicks are lying in their statement about Isiah's role?

that's a HUGE leap of logic...in fact it's not logic, it's called speculation based on no real evidence...if this were a court it would be deemed inadmissible because there is no real basis.

we can only go by the facts, but to traumatized knick fans facts get in the way. i recognize isiah hurt the team immensely, but to say "nothing good will come of Isiah Thomas in this organization" goes against what TMS outlined regarding some of his draft picks, and only the most traumatized appear to refuse to even listen to.

Secondly, you keep stating that there are no sources that say Isiah won't return as gm/prez.

Are there any sources that tell us Jesus won't return either?

This kind of thing is UNPROVABLE and OPINION based mostly on speculation.

No reporter with any ethics would ever write such nonsense, but of course with Isola ethics don't exactly fit with his muckraking style of speculative b.s.

What is wrong with you? Are you listening to yourself? Why are you so in denial about this? You honestly think it's out of the realm of possibility? You honestly think that if you combine Walsh's age, Dolan's stupidity and Isiah's sneakiness that this wont happen?

Sure, Isiah was never fired. He was demoted until his contract ran out. His contract ran out this summer. Why would he get re-signed to a consultant role? That doesn't make sense to me. Does Isiah have so much valuable insight to offer? Why not just admit that it's because him and Dolan are best friends? The fact that they're very good friends doesn't concern you? The fact that Dolan isn't giving Walsh autonomy to make his own hires doesn't concern you? The fact that Dolan thought it was smart to hire Isiah doesn't concern you?

Please tell me how logical it is to hire Isiah in ANY role on this team. Whether he is going to be the next GM or not, this move is plain stupid as it bring back negative publicity where it is simply not needed.

This is what I predict. The Knicks are going to do well this season and make the playoffs. Once the fans are feeling good about the team again, Dolan is going to try to push Walsh to hire IT as the GM again and if Walsh says no, then when Walsh's contract runs our in 2012, IT will be named his successor.

Childs2Dudley wrote:

PresIke wrote:so you're suggesting we HAVE to assume the Knicks are lying in their statement about Isiah's role?

that's a HUGE leap of logic...in fact it's not logic, it's called speculation based on no real evidence...if this were a court it would be deemed inadmissible because there is no real basis.

we can only go by the facts, but to traumatized knick fans facts get in the way. i recognize isiah hurt the team immensely, but to say "nothing good will come of Isiah Thomas in this organization" goes against what TMS outlined regarding some of his draft picks, and only the most traumatized appear to refuse to even listen to.

Secondly, you keep stating that there are no sources that say Isiah won't return as gm/prez.

Are there any sources that tell us Jesus won't return either?

This kind of thing is UNPROVABLE and OPINION based mostly on speculation.

No reporter with any ethics would ever write such nonsense, but of course with Isola ethics don't exactly fit with his muckraking style of speculative b.s.

What is wrong with you? Are you listening to yourself? Why are you so in denial about this? You honestly think it's out of the realm of possibility? You honestly think that if you combine Walsh's age, Dolan's stupidity and Isiah's sneakiness that this wont happen?

Sure, Isiah was never fired. He was demoted until his contract ran out. His contract ran out this summer. Why would he get re-signed to a consultant role? That doesn't make sense to me. Does Isiah have so much valuable insight to offer? Why not just admit that it's because him and Dolan are best friends? The fact that they're very good friends doesn't concern you? The fact that Dolan isn't giving Walsh autonomy to make his own hires doesn't concern you? The fact that Dolan thought it was smart to hire Isiah doesn't concern you?

Please tell me how logical it is to hire Isiah in ANY role on this team. Whether he is going to be the next GM or not, this move is plain stupid as it bring back negative publicity where it is simply not needed.

Childs2Dudley wrote:

PresIke wrote:so you're suggesting we HAVE to assume the Knicks are lying in their statement about Isiah's role?

that's a HUGE leap of logic...in fact it's not logic, it's called speculation based on no real evidence...if this were a court it would be deemed inadmissible because there is no real basis.

we can only go by the facts, but to traumatized knick fans facts get in the way. i recognize isiah hurt the team immensely, but to say "nothing good will come of Isiah Thomas in this organization" goes against what TMS outlined regarding some of his draft picks, and only the most traumatized appear to refuse to even listen to.

Secondly, you keep stating that there are no sources that say Isiah won't return as gm/prez.

Are there any sources that tell us Jesus won't return either?

This kind of thing is UNPROVABLE and OPINION based mostly on speculation.

No reporter with any ethics would ever write such nonsense, but of course with Isola ethics don't exactly fit with his muckraking style of speculative b.s.

What is wrong with you? Are you listening to yourself? Why are you so in denial about this? You honestly think it's out of the realm of possibility? You honestly think that if you combine Walsh's age, Dolan's stupidity and Isiah's sneakiness that this wont happen?

Sure, Isiah was never fired. He was demoted until his contract ran out. His contract ran out this summer. Why would he get re-signed to a consultant role? That doesn't make sense to me. Does Isiah have so much valuable insight to offer? Why not just admit that it's because him and Dolan are best friends? The fact that they're very good friends doesn't concern you? The fact that Dolan isn't giving Walsh autonomy to make his own hires doesn't concern you? The fact that Dolan thought it was smart to hire Isiah doesn't concern you?

Please tell me how logical it is to hire Isiah in ANY role on this team. Whether he is going to be the next GM or not, this move is plain stupid as it bring back negative publicity where it is simply not needed.

ugggh....

dude, what's up?

i said it's "possible" yet you state i believe it's out of the realm of possibility...

meanwhile the point in the end is isiah has a good relationship with dolan, and WAS NEVER FIRED.

here's the thing, even if his "contract ran out" did he "earn" it?

can you put yourself in dolan's position for one second?

is it not crazy to after giving a person millions of dollars when they did a bad job to want more?

isiah is willing to show dolan he will do other work...but no, it has to be some massive conspiracy to get isiah back in charge...you haven't even conceded the possibility isiah will npt be gm/prez...i feel stupider every time i even have to discuss this....are we going to be children or are we striving to be adults?

meanwhile, i am not suggesting it is a good idea to keep isiah on...mostly because some fans can't handle it...personally, i don't hold a personal grudge against the man. whatever. do i like all he did? hellz no...but isiah did have some skills, despite the ridiculously irrational vendetta against him by some. i wish folks cared as much about more important things than this, but hey...that's how it is...

it is LOGICAL to hire isiah as a consultant, for the skills...but if you account for fan/media reaction, it's a problem...especially if you are so angry/jaded you hold onto hate of everything that doesn't fit a rosey view of what a team makes...aka why the 90's knicks...ironically glorified/romanticized today were RIDICULED by the same kind of folks who go crazy about isiah...isola, etc....something is behind such venom, but those who know what's up...know what's up....

it's only basketball