fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:If this isnt a natural progression of a player I dont know what is. His assists, points and minutes went up year after year while his fantastic FG% remains consistant. A 20ppg scorer who shoots 55% and people around here want to dump him. I really dont get this board sometimes

20 ppg on 55% who is also the worst defensive big in the entire league. That's why.

who do you want that's improving the team? I would like to hear.

I guess I have the same plan as Donnie Walsh - LeBron James or Dwyane Wade with Chris Bosh and trade Wilson Chandler and Eddy Curry's expiring for a PG. Sign veterans to fill out the roster. I do not want to waste $10M on David Lee or Max money on Joe Johnson.

so your only complaint about Lee is his defense BUT

You would rather give Bosh $17mm and play him next to a guy drafted in the 2nd round or making the league minimum
Then sign Lee for $9mm (6 years $70mm) and have $8mm to put a legit player next to him.

Sorry Sergio, but thats garbage. Bosh is NOT a good defender, and in case you havent noticed he's done little to elevate the level of play of his teams. Whats Toronto done the last 3-4 years?

We should be looking to put someone next to Lee to maximize what he does, and if you took time to watch games he DOES a lot. The guy's worked himself into an all star 20/12/4/55% point forward. Go get a center to protect this guy's production.

Lee's expanded his role on offense, especially adding to his range. 37% of his shots were jumpers, and the guy maintained his 55% FGs. Thats some elite level stuff there, and thats why he went to the all star game. You dont get rid of guys like that. You protect them by putting pieces around him.

The ONLY way you let Lee walk is if Lebron OR Wade say they will come only if we bring Bosh/Amare as well.

Knicks will be much better with Lee+Tyrus Thomas then with Bosh + some minimum making scrub. Say hello to Marcus Haislip.

Not a good plan dude.

You're not getting David Lee for $9M. You'll probably not get him for $10M either. You best be sure that agent will ask for $13M. And you can't look at Lee as this 20/10/5 SuperStar. If he was that good as his stats say, we wouldn't be that bad. Those are franchise level player stats and I'm sorry, Lee is not at that level. I don't care what his stats are. He's a stat paddler on a losing team. I cannot take his stats seriously. Considering he's also the worst defensive big on the planet.

So, I would rather spend an extra $3M and Chris Bosh. But you're right, Bosh is no Dwight Howard and can't carry a team by himself. Honestly if we just come away with signing Bosh without LeBron James or Dwyane Wade, I don't think we improve much. However, having a Star like Bosh who is only 26 years old and arguably the second best big in the conference behind Howard will prove to be enticing for future players like Chris Paul or Carmelo Anthony to come here. I don't see those type of players having that type of respect for Lee.

This summer is not just about having the best team next year. It's about having the best team for years to come and in that case, you easily take Bosh over Lee.

Your just wrong here man.

first off how do you pad stats and score at 55%? You cant pad that. This isnt Jamal Crawford's 20ppg. This is one of the high % scorers in the league. Why will that change? He's been a high % guy since his first day in the league. What he's done is added post moves (nobody thought he could) and added a long jumper (nobody thought he could) and he still scores at that rate. You cant pad that.

as far a his salary do some math. Knicks have his rights and can offer him a 6th year and 10.5% raises. If another team signs him it can only be for 5 years and 8% raises. Also Lee WANTS to be here. He loves the team and the city. He went to Dick Barnett's funeral for god sakes.

why $9mm? Because of the market and we own his bird right. If the Knicks give him a $70mm contract starting at $9mm another team has to give him $12mm to match that money. If the Knicks give him $10.5 mm (thats 6 years $82mm) another team would have to offer him a contract starting at $14mm, and thats just to MATCH, which we know isnt good enough because Lee wants to be here.

Who is giving Lee $14mm? $16mm? Is someone giving Lee the max? Sorry, I dont think so.

Bosh is so overrated. You just joined that club.

Lee isnt a super star, but he is an all star. His #s are legit. He's played out of position and outscores and outrebounds his opposition every night, and its not through volume, his FG% is higher. He takes better shots and makes more of them.

Imagine how good this guy would be with a real play maker getting him the ball? He's scoring at 55% with Chris Duhon dishing to him.

Bosh isnt coming here. No way this guy can handle NY. He cant handle Toronto.

Thats what i keep thinking, he would be considered a max player....I'm not going to entirely rule out another team maxing Lee out, becuase with a great Pg and Solid Center Lee's a super star.

Do you not think lee would avg at least 25/11/6.5 with Nash, Dwill, Rose or Rondo

martin wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

fishmike wrote:Bosh is so overrated. You just joined that club.

Lee isnt a super star, but he is an all star. His #s are legit. He's played out of position and outscores and outrebounds his opposition every night, and its not through volume, his FG% is higher. He takes better shots and makes more of them.

Imagine how good this guy would be with a real play maker getting him the ball? He's scoring at 55% with Chris Duhon dishing to him.

Bosh isnt coming here. No way this guy can handle NY. He cant handle Toronto.

there are indications coming out of toronto that bosh will be s&t to a team that's already over the cap (or close to it). and in his exit media scrum after the season, bosh specifically mentioned a situation like pao has with kobe.

that would be scary: Kobe, Gasol, Bosh. But what else would Lakers give up to make this match?

well, he didn't specifically say to play with the lakers but asked about his role as the "man" and he said pau was the man in memphis but didn't get his shine until playing w/ kobe so he could see a situation like that for himself.

there were rumors back at the deadline of bynum for bosh...so maybe there was something to that. and phil jackson has always said he likes bosh.

basically bosh, his agent and colangelo (from what's being said) agreed to the following: to not be traded during the season and that they will work out a s&t to a list of teams. and bosh, for the first time said he wants to play for a winner. so it's looking like a playoff team or a team that underperformed and just missed it might be in the running for his services. and i don't think ny is in the picture unless he is coming along with someone else. and colangelo himself opened up the possibilities of teams with cap space interested in bosh.

djsunyc wrote:

martin wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

fishmike wrote:Bosh is so overrated. You just joined that club.

Lee isnt a super star, but he is an all star. His #s are legit. He's played out of position and outscores and outrebounds his opposition every night, and its not through volume, his FG% is higher. He takes better shots and makes more of them.

Imagine how good this guy would be with a real play maker getting him the ball? He's scoring at 55% with Chris Duhon dishing to him.

Bosh isnt coming here. No way this guy can handle NY. He cant handle Toronto.

there are indications coming out of toronto that bosh will be s&t to a team that's already over the cap (or close to it). and in his exit media scrum after the season, bosh specifically mentioned a situation like pao has with kobe.

that would be scary: Kobe, Gasol, Bosh. But what else would Lakers give up to make this match?

well, he didn't specifically say to play with the lakers but asked about his role as the "man" and he said pau was the man in memphis but didn't get his shine until playing w/ kobe so he could see a situation like that for himself.

there were rumors back at the deadline of bynum for bosh...so maybe there was something to that. and phil jackson has always said he likes bosh.

basically bosh, his agent and colangelo (from what's being said) agreed to the following: to not be traded during the season and that they will work out a s&t to a list of teams. and bosh, for the first time said he wants to play for a winner. so it's looking like a playoff team or a team that underperformed and just missed it might be in the running for his services. and i don't think ny is in the picture unless he is coming along with someone else. and colangelo himself opened up the possibilities of teams with cap space interested in bosh.

I wouldnt be surprised at this at all, and the Knicks are gunna look real dumb over that midseason trade if it does...

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:Lee and Jamison are similar in that their impressive numbers have never once been essential to a winning team.

Lee is a 15 and 9 or 10 player and a 3rd option on a winning team.

Jamison is dangerously close-to me anyway-to being Shareef Abdur Rahim 2.0.

really? Last I checked Lee was a 20/12 player

YR TM G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS 
07-08 NYK 81 29 29.1 4.2-7.6 .552 0.0-0.0 .000 2.4-2.9 .819 0.70 0.40 1.2 2.6 3.0 6.0 9.0 1.2 10.8 
08-09 NYK 81 74 34.9 6.4-11.7 .549 0.0-0.0 .000 3.1-4.1 .755 1.00 0.30 1.9 3.2 3.2 8.6 11.8 2.1 16.0 
09-10 NYK 81 81 37.3 8.5-15.5 .545 0.0-0.1 .000 3.3-4.1 .812 1.00 0.50 2.3 3.2 2.8 8.9 11.7 3.6 20.2 

Wins:

07-08, 23-59
08-09, 32-50
09-10, 29-53

2005–06	Eastern	Atlantic	5th	23	59	.280	26	Did not reach the Playoffs	—
2006–07	Eastern	Atlantic	4th	33	49	.402	14	Did not reach the Playoffs	—
2007–08	Eastern	Atlantic	5th	23	59	.280	43	Did not reach the Playoffs	—
2008–09	Eastern	Atlantic	5th	32	50	.390	30	Did not reach the Playoffs	—
2009–10	Eastern	Atlantic	3rd	29	53	.354	21	Did not reach the Playoffs	

Jamison was part of 5 over .500 teams in 11 years. That is counting the single season he served on the best team he ever played for before they traded him, Dallas.-All stats per basketball-reference.com

2002-03	NBA	38 - 44 .463	6 (21 GB)
2001-02	NBA	21 - 61 .256	7 (40 GB)
2000-01	NBA	17 - 65 .207	7 (39 GB)
1999-00	NBA	19 - 63 .232	6 (48 GB)
1998-99	NBA	21 - 29 .420	6 (14 GB)

2003-04	NBA	52 - 30 .634	3 (6 GB)

2008-09	NBA	19 - 63 .232	5 (40 GB)
2007-08	NBA	43 - 39 .524	2 (23 GB)
2006-07	NBA	41 - 41 .500	2 (3 GB)
2005-06	NBA	42 - 40 .512	2 (10 GB)
2004-05	NBA	45 - 37 .549	2 (14 GB)

He was in the league 5 years before he was on a team that was .500, and he put 20 and 8 just about everywhere he went. Except on 1 team. On one team he averaged 15 and 6, his worst statistical season since his rookie year. That team? Dallas. 52 win Dallas-his ONLY 50 win season ever-Not counting Cleveland, who BTW was 43-11-a .796 winning percentage before getting Jamison. 61-21 was there final record, meaning they went 18-11-a .620 winning percentage since they got him. Also If I remember correctly this was the season he got UBER-hype and recognition as the NBA 6th Man of the Year.

I am not saying David Lee is a bad player. I like him. As a 3rd option like Marion was in PHX. A garbage man. He is good and that and his skill set lends very favorably to that role. Lee is not, in my mind, a 1a, 1b, or 2 option.

nychamp wrote:

joec32033 wrote:I am not saying David Lee is a bad player. I like him. As a 3rd option like Marion was in PHX. A garbage man . He is good and that and his skill set lends very favorably to that role. Lee is not, in my mind, a 1a, 1b, or 2 option.

Correct.

Also correct that Gallo will eventually settle in at PF, esp. in 's system where he will give other PF's fits. A little bulk and some savvy and he will be very effective at the four, spreading the floor and presenting mismatches, whether his defender is bigger or smaller.

Thats absolutely a ridiculous statement..How does a garbage man shoot 55% from the fl, Your discrediting lee as if on a good team he's a 3rd or 4th option, which IMO sounds like your hating..The guy was a All Star ( by defualt) but still rep NY. The only real weakness he has his defense..Garbage Men are the JYD's Oak, B Wallace, Camby, those all out hustle every minute cats...

Lee to me, seems like an establish scorer, and ferocious rebounder, who works at getting better. Stat wise he's up there with the ELITE, and just because NY fans and Media give him sub par respect, Guy's around the league think highly of him. I can't think of any star player who wouldn't want to play with a unselfish 20/10/5 guy.

joec32033 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nychamp wrote:

joec32033 wrote:I am not saying David Lee is a bad player. I like him. As a 3rd option like Marion was in PHX. A garbage man . He is good and that and his skill set lends very favorably to that role. Lee is not, in my mind, a 1a, 1b, or 2 option.

Correct.

Also correct that Gallo will eventually settle in at PF, esp. in 's system where he will give other PF's fits. A little bulk and some savvy and he will be very effective at the four, spreading the floor and presenting mismatches, whether his defender is bigger or smaller.

Thats absolutely a ridiculous statement..How does a garbage man shoot 55% from the fl, Your discrediting lee as if on a good team he's a 3rd or 4th option, which IMO sounds like your hating..The guy was a All Star ( by defualt) but still rep NY. The only real weakness he has his defense..Garbage Men are the JYD's Oak, B Wallace, Camby, those all out hustle every minute cats...

Lee to me, seems like an establish scorer, and ferocious rebounder, who works at getting better. Stat wise he's up there with the ELITE, and just because NY fans and Media give him sub par respect, Guy's around the league think highly of him. I can't think of any star player who wouldn't want to play with a unselfish 20/10/5 guy.

I really don't understand why some people see being a third gun is a bad thing. I can think of some VERY good players off the top of my head that are the third gun on championship caliber teams-which is what I see Lee as-Marion(Nash, Amare), Ginobili(Duncan, Parker), Terry-during Dallas' Finals run(Dirk, Howard), Rasheed Wallace(Chauncy, Rip), KG(Pierce, Allen)...hell John Havlicek wasn't a top gun on his team and is was arguably the best all around player on the team back in the day.

If it will make some of you guys feel better, I think Lee can be one of the best 3rd options in the NBA.

IMO A Basketball team only has 2 goto guy's (at any given time), after that it's who's ever open.
Those guy's you mention are 1st and 2nd options, which at this point lee qualifies

joec32033 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nychamp wrote:

joec32033 wrote:I am not saying David Lee is a bad player. I like him. As a 3rd option like Marion was in PHX. A garbage man . He is good and that and his skill set lends very favorably to that role. Lee is not, in my mind, a 1a, 1b, or 2 option.

Correct.

Also correct that Gallo will eventually settle in at PF, esp. in 's system where he will give other PF's fits. A little bulk and some savvy and he will be very effective at the four, spreading the floor and presenting mismatches, whether his defender is bigger or smaller.

Thats absolutely a ridiculous statement..How does a garbage man shoot 55% from the fl, Your discrediting lee as if on a good team he's a 3rd or 4th option, which IMO sounds like your hating..The guy was a All Star ( by defualt) but still rep NY. The only real weakness he has his defense..Garbage Men are the JYD's Oak, B Wallace, Camby, those all out hustle every minute cats...

Lee to me, seems like an establish scorer, and ferocious rebounder, who works at getting better. Stat wise he's up there with the ELITE, and just because NY fans and Media give him sub par respect, Guy's around the league think highly of him. I can't think of any star player who wouldn't want to play with a unselfish 20/10/5 guy.

I really don't understand why some people see being a third gun is a bad thing. I can think of some VERY good players off the top of my head that are the third gun on championship caliber teams-which is what I see Lee as-Marion(Nash, Amare), Ginobili(Duncan, Parker), Terry-during Dallas' Finals run(Dirk, Howard), Rasheed Wallace(Chauncy, Rip), KG(Pierce, Allen)...hell John Havlicek wasn't a top gun on his team and is was arguably the best all around player on the team back in the day.

If it will make some of you guys feel better, I think Lee can be one of the best 3rd options in the NBA.

IMO A Basketball team only has 2 goto guy's (at any given time), after that it's who's ever open.
Those guy's you mention are 1st and 2nd options, which at this point lee qualifies

Lee barely qualifies as a second option as he can't create his own shot. He lives and dies with the pick and roll and if he doesn't have someone to pass him the ball after he sets himself up without it for whatever set shot he is gonna take he is very one dimensional. Develop a post up game with more than 1 move, figure out how to use your quickness against bigs in ISO situations, be able to be PUT in an ISO situation and then maybe just maybe to me he would qualify as a level 2 type guy.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. Sometimes the guys you are playing with are so bad that you have no way of not looking good.

Are you serious...lee has been beating opposing centers with his quickness all season long he's also one of the best passing big man in the league, he's been setting up the offense for a good chunk of the season...ONE DEMENSIONAL...lol...

When Duhon was bench you bearly saw Lee in the P/R...certainly TD and Serg was not effective in that set, so im no sure what your watching. Even if he did only have one move( in your eyes) he gets 20 pts out of that one-so called- move he does. How many bigs in this league are avg 20 PTs and 10 rbs, in addition to that who cares how he gets his pts, as long as he gets them. He gets to the line at a fairly decent rate, and creates for others with his passes...

This would not even be a conversation had we had a lagit PG, instead of having ( your so called center) setting up the offense. How can really become a true post up play when your play book has you on the perimeter. Why you think he develope a jump shot more then anything. Had this been JVG or LB, then we would see a better defensive effort from lee, and a more post up lee.

Lee IMO is a product of his coach, thats why his defense is below AVG, and he's a jump shooting big man.