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Anyone else think banning Nate is starting to cost us games?
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holfresh
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1/2/2010  12:25 AM
oohah wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Yeah and LB was trying to help Ariza...

Holfresh, LB did help Ariza...He forced him out, now Ariza has a nice fat ring, a nice fat contract, and now a nice fat role on a winning team!

All Ariza had to do was get banished from the Knicks soap opera, I mean basketball team.

I bet Robinson ends up in a better place too.

oohah

Point taken....

AUTOADVERT
OldFan
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1/2/2010  9:36 AM
“I can’t see what would have happened if I didn’t do it,” D’Antoni said. “When I did it we were struggling. And then we had the best month we’ve had here in eight years, so would we have had a better month? I don’t know that. But we’re going forward. There’s no use looking back now.”

I think MDA summed it up pretty well. He did it and the team played pretty well. You don't know what happens if he doesn't do it. If you think the Knicks would have played even better had Nate been playing or played worse I think you can argue either way.

I think the coach has to make decisions and it's hard to know or judge what went into each decision. In the long run he's going to get judged based on the results.

To me he's got the team playing better then they have in years so he's doing something right.

Olbrannon
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1/2/2010  9:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/2/2010  10:11 PM
Hell the lot of you are just throwing out opinions. May as well throw mine out there.

I opine many of you have been correct in part. I also am with those that believe D'Antoni does not want to change his style to suit his players. He believes in his system. He did change it in the recent stretch of games....he slowed it down to suit his personnel. It was borne of necessity and is not 7 seconds or less.

Nate is a great talent. Maybe we should call him Taz instead of Krypto-Nate. He can be disruptive. On either end. Harnessing such talent is a difficult task. What some of you are saying is that D'Antoni benched NRob for personal reasons. I like the idea he's trying to impress 'team' accomplishments on his players and those that play that way are getting time. Good to see him back and it was obvious his teammates thought so too. I was worried he would be Marburied.

I do not agree with the tight rotations. When you play back-to-backs those short rotations are hell on the starters. D Lee haad 89 minutes in the last two road games. And it showed in the 4th of the second game. Short rotations may give your starters more continuity but limit substitution based on match-ups and flexibility as well.

Duhon is pretty much immovable at point right now. The most consistent offense for the Knicks has been Lee-Duhon and the pick and roll. It's what D'Antoni wants as part of his system. No one on the roster can do it better for now. It's why Duhon is still the point. Me I am not so sure that is 'the style' but I ain' the coach.

I agree the switch every screen thing was kind of unique.`Makes a nice change-up on defense and works well with the slower system. Don't think it will be all that is needed to get you an NBA title...but it's a nice chip to use in the right situation and likely caught some teams off guard and got a game or two for the team. Nice play there. How to make it go all the time? Well you trade everyone under 6-5 and take back no one under that height. Then maybe you mix 7 seconds or less with a motion offense and use two or three combo guards/small forwards. NOt many 6-5 points in the league.

Bender is a great story. And that's about it. I don't see him long term doing much. So far all he's done really was take minutes from Hill and Hill needs those minutes and would seem to have more upside. I know what Bender was...but he isn't what he was.

Not much doubt December was a more favorable schedule. 50+ to go. I said at the beginning 43-41 so far that looks a pipe dream. I frankly expected TD to take Duhon's job. My impression so far is that D'Antoni's motivational tactics are to disparage his players in front of the press ('he ain't the best shooter in the world') put unrealistic expectations on them('he's the best shooter I ever saw') and bench them if they give him any trouble at all( Shaq/Kerr-Marbury).. 'my way or the hightway' How is it he inspires such loyalty from the big names? He wrote a book so now he's a genius(sarcasm doesn't translate well on the net so I'll just point out this is what that last sentence is). Hey...it cannot be that bad..it's just how it looks from the outside.

@ oohah- love that handle.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
nixluva
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1/2/2010  10:28 PM
MDA has been playing short rotations for years. It's something he's won a ton of games with. I fail to see any evidence that it has hurt his teams in the past. 2 trips to the conf. finals is a great result IMO. Especially given the teams he had, which weren't deep teams at all. This team doesn't have

I guess it's OK for armchair coaches to try and knock a guy that has been a success everywhere he's been, doing pretty much the same things he's doing here. Our roster wasn't ready to start the year, I guess it's valid to knock MDA for that, but now that the team is playing better you'd think there would be a sense of reason about how the team is developing. I guess it's too much to ask for some of the fans here to be reasonable.

What's been the biggest knock on MDA, a lack of emphasis on D? Even in PHX he didn't have a lot of great defensive personnel and yet he still managed to be in the middle of the league defensively and of course won a ton of games. We don't have great defensive personnel here either and yet he has the team playing respectable D. I guess you can't give him any credit for that either...

CrushAlot
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1/2/2010  10:41 PM
nixluva wrote:MDA has been playing short rotations for years. It's something he's won a ton of games with. I fail to see any evidence that it has hurt his teams in the past. 2 trips to the conf. finals is a great result IMO. Especially given the teams he had, which weren't deep teams at all. This team doesn't have

I guess it's OK for armchair coaches to try and knock a guy that has been a success everywhere he's been, doing pretty much the same things he's doing here. Our roster wasn't ready to start the year, I guess it's valid to knock MDA for that, but now that the team is playing better you'd think there would be a sense of reason about how the team is developing. I guess it's too much to ask for some of the fans here to be reasonable.

What's been the biggest knock on MDA, a lack of emphasis on D? Even in PHX he didn't have a lot of great defensive personnel and yet he still managed to be in the middle of the league defensively and of course won a ton of games. We don't have great defensive personnel here either and yet he has the team playing respectable D. I guess you can't give him any credit for that either...

Please stop saying D'Antoni has been a success everywhere he has been. His record when Nash isn't his point guard in the NBA is 79-146. Come on man you gotta come up with some facts to back up your MDA love.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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1/2/2010  11:16 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:MDA has been playing short rotations for years. It's something he's won a ton of games with. I fail to see any evidence that it has hurt his teams in the past. 2 trips to the conf. finals is a great result IMO. Especially given the teams he had, which weren't deep teams at all. This team doesn't have

I guess it's OK for armchair coaches to try and knock a guy that has been a success everywhere he's been, doing pretty much the same things he's doing here. Our roster wasn't ready to start the year, I guess it's valid to knock MDA for that, but now that the team is playing better you'd think there would be a sense of reason about how the team is developing. I guess it's too much to ask for some of the fans here to be reasonable.

What's been the biggest knock on MDA, a lack of emphasis on D? Even in PHX he didn't have a lot of great defensive personnel and yet he still managed to be in the middle of the league defensively and of course won a ton of games. We don't have great defensive personnel here either and yet he has the team playing respectable D. I guess you can't give him any credit for that either...

Please stop saying D'Antoni has been a success everywhere he has been. His record when Nash isn't his point guard in the NBA is 79-146. Come on man you gotta come up with some facts to back up your MDA love.

Are you gonna only count what he's done in the NBA? Nothing else he did is in the conversation. Are you gonna ignore the fact that you're including games from his short stint in Denver, which was his 1st NBA head coaching job where he took on a team that had won 11 games the year before, plus the partial season he took over a losing PHX team with 61 games left and started the process of remaking the team? Plus his time here with another losing situation he's beginning to turn around! Did he come here with Ewing and a vet team already in the fold?

Let me ask you this, did Nash come up with the style of play that he's found his biggest success with and incidentally went back to playing this year or was that MDA who created that and taught him to play? No coach wins without any talent. MDA has a chance to help this team improve and it appears that it's starting to happen.

CrushAlot
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1/2/2010  11:31 PM
Unfortunately D'Antoni's NBA resume is based on his time in Denver, his season in Phoenix without Nash, his time in Phoenix with Nash, and his time in NY. Only one of those era's was successful. Here is an article from Henry Abbot from around the time D'Antoni was being considered for the Bulls job. Saturday, May 03, 2008
Mike D'Antoni's Stint with the Denver Nuggets

Truehoop Henry Abbott wrote:


Talk about Mike D'Antoni in Phoenix has been hampered by the common thought that the Bulls -- built for defense, sans a Steve Nash figure -- aren't his kind of team. But I agree with BlogaBull, how do we know what a D'Antoni team looks like? He has had Steve Nash, and has coached a certain way that suits Nash. Without Nash, we don't know squat about what he'd do. Alos, as I have written before, I think a new approach in Chicago could be powerful, and D'Antoni would sure be a new approach.

I think we have an idea what his style will be like without a point guard like Steve Nash based on his one-year stint with the Denver Nuggets.


The San Antonio Spurs bring out the worst in the Denver Nuggets.

After holding the Nuggets to a franchise-low 61 points less than two weeks ago, the Spurs added another black mark to Denver's record book with an 86-65 victory Thursday night.

The 65 points were the fewest Denver has ever scored at home, and the lopsided loss was the third by 20 points or more for the Nuggets this season. All three have come against the Spurs.

"Well, at least we're done with San Antonio for the year," Denver coach Mike D'Antoni said. "It's hard to point to one thing. It was a complete meltdown."

Tim Duncan scored 28 points and David Robinson added 12 points and 13 rebounds for the streaking Spurs, who have won nine straight against Denver and 12 of 13 overall.

Vainly trying to defend both 7-footers, the Nuggets had no answer for San Antonio's inside game. Denver shot 31 percent from the field and were outscored 44-20 in the paint.

"They're kind of undersized," Robinson said. "They start two forwards at 6-9 and then a center at 6-7, so there are tough matchups for them. They're athletic, but at the same time, it's hard shooting over 7-footers every time you turn around."

Sounds familiar? Let's see... a 6-7 guy playing center? Let's check the roster. Hmmm... must be this guy.

But D'Antoni's team was very athletic and they like to run. Before Nash and Amare, Mike had Nick Van Exel and super-athlete Antonio McDyess in Denver as "the hip-hop Stockton and Malone." Did not work as well though.

This was the starting five Dantoni used for most of the lockout-shortened 1998-99 season:

Players Games GamesStarted
Antonio MyDyess 50 50
Nick Van Exel 50 50
Chauncey Billups 45 41
Danny Fortson 50 38
Bryant Stith 46 32

D'Antoni also like shooting big guys like Raef Lafrentz, who as a rookie started for the Nugget's first 12 games before suffering a season-ending tear of his left anterior cruciate ligament.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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1/2/2010  11:42 PM
Dude what exactly is your point? That MDA can look bad with a team that was already bad in his 1st NBA coaching job? Can you imagine how hard it must have been to try and convince those guys to really buy into what he was coaching when he was a nobody in their minds at that point and they had won only 11 games the year before? Even here he's had to fight to get these players to listen, but now that they are, they're trusting him more as did the Suns, who found success listening to him.

Let me ask you how the team has been winning recently with no Nash? You seems to be questioning the guys coaching ability, yet he seems to be getting results with this team, despite not having Nash around.

CrushAlot
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1/3/2010  12:58 AM
I actually said that this is a place where he can prove himself. In regards to my point, you keep saying how successful MDA was prior to being the Knicks coach. The reality is that his record is well under .500 unless he has Nash as his point guard. Those are the points in your post that I was responding to. I do question MDA's ability to adapt as a coach. I don't think he had a group of guys that could police themselves and just be professionals like he did in Phoenix. I don't think he has a roster to play that style and be successful. I think he is so rigid in his approach that it took him all of training camp and the first month of the season to realize that his 'system'wasn't going to result in anything close to a winning record with this group of players. This is despite the fact that his core group except Q all played for him last year. I was extremely upset with how unprepared his team was coming out of training camp and for the entire first month of the season. I am really concerned that he presents as a happy go lucky guy that doesn't seem to sweat things and doesn't want to be an authority figure or communicate with his players from a position of authority but he will turn around and banish guys that don't self police themselves and display the level of compliance, character and professionalism he wants but will not communicate this expectation or build it into the structure of his team himself. As a coach it is clear that he cannot have a guy on the team that does not fit his model of compliance, professionalism and character. He knows who he is and who he is capable of coaching. He needed to communicate that to Walsh over the summer so that the Knicks didn't resign Nate. The Nate drama was created by D'Antoni's struggles with communication and possibly his role as an authority figure. He needs to figure things out if he is going to be successful. Scott Layden was the last guy here who filled the roster with high character no upside guys and the franchise is still paying for it. Duhon and Jeffries should not be playing the minutes they are but they fit the character requirements of the coach.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Anyone else think banning Nate is starting to cost us games?

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