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Trade with Philadelphia making the rounds?
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TrueBlue
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6/6/2008  3:28 PM
Posted by fishmike:

not talking about our own FAs... look again at the Dallas example. They signed Dampier, who was an UFA to a huge deal when their payroll was $80mm. Is that cap flexible in your opinion?

All you need to have to make S&T FA aquisitions is expiring contracts and good young rotation players. So tell me how getting rid of Zach and trading our lottery pick accomplishes that.

I am being short sighted? Refusing to trade down is short sighted? Sorry.. I dont buy it. I want the most quality talent we can get. Thats usually closer to the top of the draft then the middle of it.

Paying someone to take Zach is a short sighted panic move.


Once again he was their own FA it's irrelevant and Dallas was also in contention or approaching it, cap flexibility isn't an issue when you're already in contention.

Package 1...The player at 16 for example CDR, plus Reggie, plus Crawford, plus Lee(reasonable deal hypothetically)) and probably future first rounder could lure Lebron possibly.

Tell me how it would be different if Say Westbrook or Randoplh is our pick at 6.

Package 2...The player at 6 for example Westbrook, plus Jeffries, plus Crwaford, plus Lee(reasonable deal hypothetically) and probably future first rounder could Lure Lebron possibly.

I think both trade scenarios still wouldn't get it done but I like package 1 better than package 2.


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-06-2008 2:30 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
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TrueBlue
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6/6/2008  3:30 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by fishmike:

Paying someone to take Zach is a short sighted panic move.

i think it depends on the player available at 6.

if the guy at 6 will turn out to be an average starter...then you can get those guys w/o a problem - isiah did.

and the removal of zach makes eddy a better player, probably makes the team function better (same if they move eddy and keep zach), and may raise the value of other players on the team to make moves down the road.

i think it's only short-sighted IF the player at 6 is an above average starter.


I said this 1billion post ago. If the guy we really want is off the board it's almost a no brainer to move down if it allows us to dump salary while giving us a strong punchers chance to get a comparable player at 16.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
SupremeCommander
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6/6/2008  3:45 PM
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:

i make this trade in an eyeblink... it helps our franchise in unmeasurable ways, namely getting rid of a poisonous loser that has brought this franchise to even lower heights than before he got here (as if that was even possible)... also gets rid of his cap killing contract, adds a very solid role player off the bench that will bring some much needed toughness down low, & also we still get a mid 1st round pick for Walsh to play with... i don't see any downsides to this whatsoever.

gimme a break w/this talk about what core of players we'll have left to offer a bigname FA... no bigname FA can even come here to begin with as long as Zach's contract is on the books, so that's not even an applicable point in this discussion.

a #6 pick has no guarantees of ever panning out anyway, especially in a 2-3 man deep draft like this year... if Walsh feels there's value at the lower picks enough to make this deal i have a hard time being opposed to it.

Of course you make this trade. I find it unbelievably amazing that people think there is a better Zach Randolph deal out there. The truth is, THIS IS the best trade and one I make in a millisecond. Don't even care about the sixth pick if it's not Derek Rose. We're ripping Philadelphia off with this deal.

This is the kind of trade Isiah should have been making the past 2 seasons. We need to unload before we reload. Any team that trades for Zach Randolph and that contract must be on crack. And I love Evans. Much better teammate, hard worker and he doesn't have a bad contract. In other words, VALUE=CONTRACT. This is how you build an NBA team so when you do need to make trades, you can get comparable value back that better fits the team you are trying to build. Our entire roster needs to be VALUE=CONTRACT.

While i don't disagree with your logic at all, I have to say I want to hold onto the pick. If I have to watch ****ty basketball for the next few seasons, I'd like to watch a lotto pick or two develop. Maybe it's not the smartest way to go but what can I say? I'm not going to be happy watching David Lee and Wilson Chandler emerge as the Knicks best players, only to be--at best--a contender's third best player. I'd say that's optimistic. Randolph sucks, yes, but the team doesn't have enough lotto picks to purge all the crap from the roster and it won't cost as much to move Randolph next offseason. And I'm hoping that him sulking and jacking up shots nets the team a top-three pick next season.

Fuck this sucks. GO PING PONG BALLS GO PING PONG BALLS GO!!!
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TrueBlue
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6/6/2008  3:49 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:

i make this trade in an eyeblink... it helps our franchise in unmeasurable ways, namely getting rid of a poisonous loser that has brought this franchise to even lower heights than before he got here (as if that was even possible)... also gets rid of his cap killing contract, adds a very solid role player off the bench that will bring some much needed toughness down low, & also we still get a mid 1st round pick for Walsh to play with... i don't see any downsides to this whatsoever.

gimme a break w/this talk about what core of players we'll have left to offer a bigname FA... no bigname FA can even come here to begin with as long as Zach's contract is on the books, so that's not even an applicable point in this discussion.

a #6 pick has no guarantees of ever panning out anyway, especially in a 2-3 man deep draft like this year... if Walsh feels there's value at the lower picks enough to make this deal i have a hard time being opposed to it.

Of course you make this trade. I find it unbelievably amazing that people think there is a better Zach Randolph deal out there. The truth is, THIS IS the best trade and one I make in a millisecond. Don't even care about the sixth pick if it's not Derek Rose. We're ripping Philadelphia off with this deal.

This is the kind of trade Isiah should have been making the past 2 seasons. We need to unload before we reload. Any team that trades for Zach Randolph and that contract must be on crack. And I love Evans. Much better teammate, hard worker and he doesn't have a bad contract. In other words, VALUE=CONTRACT. This is how you build an NBA team so when you do need to make trades, you can get comparable value back that better fits the team you are trying to build. Our entire roster needs to be VALUE=CONTRACT.

While i don't disagree with your logic at all, I have to say I want to hold onto the pick. If I have to watch ****ty basketball for the next few seasons, I'd like to watch a lotto pick or two develop. Maybe it's not the smartest way to go but what can I say? I'm not going to be happy watching David Lee and Wilson Chandler emerge as the Knicks best players, only to be--at best--a contender's third best player. I'd say that's optimistic. Randolph sucks, yes, but the team doesn't have enough lotto picks to purge all the crap from the roster and it won't cost as much to move Randolph next offseason. And I'm hoping that him sulking and jacking up shots nets the team a top-three pick next season.

Fuck this sucks. GO PING PONG BALLS GO PING PONG BALLS GO!!!


Well if this happens Mark Jackson should have been hired instead of D'Antonio Sabato Jr. Although I agree I hope we land in the lottery but if Pringles has his way we won't be. We'll be making the playoffs as an 8th seed and getting bounced and the masses will be full of Glee and Cheer.

LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
fishmike
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6/6/2008  3:55 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:

not talking about our own FAs... look again at the Dallas example. They signed Dampier, who was an UFA to a huge deal when their payroll was $80mm. Is that cap flexible in your opinion?

All you need to have to make S&T FA aquisitions is expiring contracts and good young rotation players. So tell me how getting rid of Zach and trading our lottery pick accomplishes that.

I am being short sighted? Refusing to trade down is short sighted? Sorry.. I dont buy it. I want the most quality talent we can get. Thats usually closer to the top of the draft then the middle of it.

Paying someone to take Zach is a short sighted panic move.
My turn to ask about your players. Who are we going to have on our team that you're gonna include in a sign and trade to get a star player worth building around? (Or how else are you going to get a star player worth building around?)

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 06-06-2008 3:17 PM]
I have made several posts about aquiring extra picks from teams with serious financial problems, and posted specific examples and media quotes regarding their situations. I have followed those ideas up with using money to add guys that would fit into a team concept than DAntoni was trying to build. Maybe we take on extra money for guys like Diaw/Barbosa, Redd/Bogut while drafting some guys that can play behind them and look good off the bench. Mostly I have focused on using money to get extra picks either to move up for Mayo or take advantage if a good player falls.

1) draft well and often
2) improve the talent and the players to fit a style of play, even if it means adding payroll
3) start winning games and improving the value and perception of our roster

I have been very specific in my examples to do so, and very specific in arguements on why to avoid the pitfal that cap space is for a team like NY

But lets just be patient because Lebron is coming to NY to join forces with the best MLE players we can get cheers :)
You can mention players anytime yourself.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
SupremeCommander
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6/6/2008  4:04 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:

i make this trade in an eyeblink... it helps our franchise in unmeasurable ways, namely getting rid of a poisonous loser that has brought this franchise to even lower heights than before he got here (as if that was even possible)... also gets rid of his cap killing contract, adds a very solid role player off the bench that will bring some much needed toughness down low, & also we still get a mid 1st round pick for Walsh to play with... i don't see any downsides to this whatsoever.

gimme a break w/this talk about what core of players we'll have left to offer a bigname FA... no bigname FA can even come here to begin with as long as Zach's contract is on the books, so that's not even an applicable point in this discussion.

a #6 pick has no guarantees of ever panning out anyway, especially in a 2-3 man deep draft like this year... if Walsh feels there's value at the lower picks enough to make this deal i have a hard time being opposed to it.

Of course you make this trade. I find it unbelievably amazing that people think there is a better Zach Randolph deal out there. The truth is, THIS IS the best trade and one I make in a millisecond. Don't even care about the sixth pick if it's not Derek Rose. We're ripping Philadelphia off with this deal.

This is the kind of trade Isiah should have been making the past 2 seasons. We need to unload before we reload. Any team that trades for Zach Randolph and that contract must be on crack. And I love Evans. Much better teammate, hard worker and he doesn't have a bad contract. In other words, VALUE=CONTRACT. This is how you build an NBA team so when you do need to make trades, you can get comparable value back that better fits the team you are trying to build. Our entire roster needs to be VALUE=CONTRACT.

While i don't disagree with your logic at all, I have to say I want to hold onto the pick. If I have to watch ****ty basketball for the next few seasons, I'd like to watch a lotto pick or two develop. Maybe it's not the smartest way to go but what can I say? I'm not going to be happy watching David Lee and Wilson Chandler emerge as the Knicks best players, only to be--at best--a contender's third best player. I'd say that's optimistic. Randolph sucks, yes, but the team doesn't have enough lotto picks to purge all the crap from the roster and it won't cost as much to move Randolph next offseason. And I'm hoping that him sulking and jacking up shots nets the team a top-three pick next season.

Fuck this sucks. GO PING PONG BALLS GO PING PONG BALLS GO!!!


Well if this happens Mark Jackson should have been hired instead of D'Antonio Sabato Jr. Although I agree I hope we land in the lottery but if Pringles has his way we won't be. We'll be making the playoffs as an 8th seed and getting bounced and the masses will be full of Glee and Cheer.

Well, I'm not sure about the Mark Jackson over Mike D argument, but I understand your point. Players like to play for D'Antoni, and that will make NY a more attractive signing destination (and this franchise needs all the help it can get) and that's why I liked the move more than hiring Jackson. But I certainly don't fault anyone for wanting Jackson because his growing pains wouldn't hurt the team and I think he'll become a fine coach. D'Antoni, to me, is alreadya fine coach that will impliment a true system for the palyers to learn this year and the following season be able to make some true strides.
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fishmike
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6/6/2008  4:58 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

Well, I'm not sure about the Mark Jackson over Mike D argument, but I understand your point. Players like to play for D'Antoni, and that will make NY a more attractive signing destination (and this franchise needs all the help it can get) and that's why I liked the move more than hiring Jackson. But I certainly don't fault anyone for wanting Jackson because his growing pains wouldn't hurt the team and I think he'll become a fine coach. D'Antoni, to me, is alreadya fine coach that will impliment a true system for the palyers to learn this year and the following season be able to make some true strides.
some good points. We all debate day in and day out about how much our guys suck or dont suck. Truth is none of us really knows.. wouldnt it be nice to see our guys in a real system for once? There isnt a "Mike D type of player" either. Kurt did well in Pho and is there a more slow footed unathletic guy?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nykshaknbake
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6/6/2008  5:01 PM
Agree 100%. as mentioned earlier Zach either. I would not try to trade Zach or Curry who are at their low point in value now. I think the only offers we could get would be getting jobbed like this. Better to try to trade players that have some value in the league to try to clear space. Maybe Crawford or Balkman to do a salary dump. Lee if we could also get good value back.
Posted by BRIGGS:

This a nervous nellie

this would essentially be giving up pick 6+7 for nothing.

Look at our history of giving up the solid pick--we ALREADY would have a good team.

The bets thing to do is NOT panic trade and let Randolph's value increase with his play as his contract diminishes

It's a real scker play to do this deal you could be giving up an all star player for nothing.

Do NOT do this--let me warn any Knick management do NOT do this this is akin to giving the bulls two lottery picks fopr eddy curry---if you are GIVING up the lottery pick--you want a star back not reggie evans.

If Philly wants Zach--then give me evans straight up
TMS
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6/6/2008  5:04 PM
if u could get a top 15 pick & cap space in exchange for Jamal i'd be all for it & i'm Jamal's biggest supporter on this forum... any teams out there u have in mind?

how does unloading Balk help w/our cap situation?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nykshaknbake
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6/6/2008  5:12 PM
Not unloading Balk for his salary but say in a dump move Craw and a pick or if we found a someone willing to take Zach to sweeten the pot.

Posted by TMS:

if u could get a top 15 pick & cap space in exchange for Jamal i'd be all for it & i'm Jamal's biggest supporter on this forum... any teams out there u have in mind?

how does unloading Balk help w/our cap situation?



[Edited by - nykshaknbake on 06-06-2008 5:16 PM]
franco12
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6/6/2008  5:19 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

Agree 100%. as mentioned earlier Zach either. I would not try to trade Zach or Curry who are at their low point in value now. I think the only offers we could get would be getting jobbed like this. Better to try to trade players that have some value in the league to try to clear space. Maybe Crawford or Balkman to do a salary dump. Lee if we could also get good value back.
Posted by BRIGGS:

This a nervous nellie

this would essentially be giving up pick 6+7 for nothing.

Look at our history of giving up the solid pick--we ALREADY would have a good team.

The bets thing to do is NOT panic trade and let Randolph's value increase with his play as his contract diminishes

It's a real scker play to do this deal you could be giving up an all star player for nothing.

Do NOT do this--let me warn any Knick management do NOT do this this is akin to giving the bulls two lottery picks fopr eddy curry---if you are GIVING up the lottery pick--you want a star back not reggie evans.

If Philly wants Zach--then give me evans straight up

I do think Crawford might be the best player to move - its not a huge contract, but we should be able to get good value back.

If Cleveland had Crawford instead of the gimp from LI, they might still be playing. Crawford is a lot of things, but he has no fear.
SupremeCommander
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6/6/2008  5:58 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

Well, I'm not sure about the Mark Jackson over Mike D argument, but I understand your point. Players like to play for D'Antoni, and that will make NY a more attractive signing destination (and this franchise needs all the help it can get) and that's why I liked the move more than hiring Jackson. But I certainly don't fault anyone for wanting Jackson because his growing pains wouldn't hurt the team and I think he'll become a fine coach. D'Antoni, to me, is alreadya fine coach that will impliment a true system for the palyers to learn this year and the following season be able to make some true strides.
some good points. We all debate day in and day out about how much our guys suck or dont suck. Truth is none of us really knows.. wouldnt it be nice to see our guys in a real system for once? There isnt a "Mike D type of player" either. Kurt did well in Pho and is there a more slow footed unathletic guy?

That Kurt point is right on target... he shouldn't have succeeded in Phoenix by conventional wisdom from what we've seen in Phoenix. But that's thing, by all accounts he had some defensively oriented teams in Italy. I don't know that for sure because I didn't see it. But it's not so ridiculous to assume he's going to devise a system that plays to strengths of his players. Remember, everyone thought the Steve Nash signing was dumb, myself included... I mean, Cuban didn't even want to match it. Two MVPs later and everyone forgets that. And I think that's why players like to play for him, he devises a way for them to play to their strengths and to extract maximum efficiency.
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6/6/2008  6:18 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by TMS:

Zach will be more tradeable in 2 years no question about that, but IMO there's value in a deal of this nature that you can take advantage of right now... getting rid of Zach helps guys like Curry & D Lee to continue developing & improving on their games... it also gets rid of 1 of the 1 main negative presence players on this roster & adds a nice role player in Evans.

we're not talking about throwing away a #6 pick here, only moving down a few spots to unload the worst contract we have off our books... there are teams out there like the Pacers looking to dump their pick altogether just to get rid of guys like JO, u guys wanna tell me moving down a few spots to unload Zach isn't worth it? none of us have any guarantees what the future holds... all i know is we've been trying to think of ways to get rid of Zach's contract all last year & just about everytime a deal is proposed it's shot down because no one thought there would be any teams out there looking to take on Zach's contract... now that a deal comes along that may be somewhat feasible all of a sudden trading Zach isn't a great idea because you guys are afraid to move down 10 spots in the draft? let's just say Zach helped us to win enough games to finish out of the lottery this year & sneak into the playoffs, would we still be as reluctant to trade him away & hold onto our pick? i don't see any difference there to be honest... the guy isn't helping us win any titles & is not conducive to establishing any kind of winning atmosphere in NY... we need to get rid of him, plain & simple.

The Rockets traded number 8 pick and Stro Show for Shane Battier. Man that trade really crippled the Rockets and propelled the Grizzlies. It did so much so according to most the Grizz felt compelled to give Gasol away for pennies on the dollar. Wait a second then the Rockets followed up this knee jerk trade with other low reward trades not for first round picks but for second pick prospects in Luis Scola and Carl Landry. Man what were the Rockets thinking of with these moves!!!!!

Blue, The freakin' Grizzlies drafted RUDY GAY with that pick!!!
2006
~You can't run from who you are.~
TMS
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6/6/2008  6:33 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

Not unloading Balk for his salary but say in a dump move Craw and a pick or if we found a someone willing to take Zach to sweeten the pot.

Posted by TMS:

if u could get a top 15 pick & cap space in exchange for Jamal i'd be all for it & i'm Jamal's biggest supporter on this forum... any teams out there u have in mind?

how does unloading Balk help w/our cap situation?



[Edited by - nykshaknbake on 06-06-2008 5:16 PM]

wouldn't moving Zach & a pick be more preferable than Jamal & a pick? i don't get what you're getting at here... did u want to get back a pick in exchange for Jamal & then use that to unload Zach?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BRIGGS
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6/6/2008  6:34 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by TMS:

Zach will be more tradeable in 2 years no question about that, but IMO there's value in a deal of this nature that you can take advantage of right now... getting rid of Zach helps guys like Curry & D Lee to continue developing & improving on their games... it also gets rid of 1 of the 1 main negative presence players on this roster & adds a nice role player in Evans.

we're not talking about throwing away a #6 pick here, only moving down a few spots to unload the worst contract we have off our books... there are teams out there like the Pacers looking to dump their pick altogether just to get rid of guys like JO, u guys wanna tell me moving down a few spots to unload Zach isn't worth it? none of us have any guarantees what the future holds... all i know is we've been trying to think of ways to get rid of Zach's contract all last year & just about everytime a deal is proposed it's shot down because no one thought there would be any teams out there looking to take on Zach's contract... now that a deal comes along that may be somewhat feasible all of a sudden trading Zach isn't a great idea because you guys are afraid to move down 10 spots in the draft? let's just say Zach helped us to win enough games to finish out of the lottery this year & sneak into the playoffs, would we still be as reluctant to trade him away & hold onto our pick? i don't see any difference there to be honest... the guy isn't helping us win any titles & is not conducive to establishing any kind of winning atmosphere in NY... we need to get rid of him, plain & simple.

The Rockets traded number 8 pick and Stro Show for Shane Battier. Man that trade really crippled the Rockets and propelled the Grizzlies. It did so much so according to most the Grizz felt compelled to give Gasol away for pennies on the dollar. Wait a second then the Rockets followed up this knee jerk trade with other low reward trades not for first round picks but for second pick prospects in Luis Scola and Carl Landry. Man what were the Rockets thinking of with these moves!!!!!

Blue, The freakin' Grizzlies drafted RUDY GAY with that pick!!!
2006

This guy is all over the board. I would be in reasonable agreemnet with him on Eric Gordon--maybe not my choice but worthy in this style of offense. But this guy wanst to drop that off the table--in fact every poster who wanst to drop the 6th pick off the table for a MEASLY 10mm in cap space for one year.

Once you trade out of pick 6 the following players are gone

OJ mayo
Jerryd Bayless
Anthony Randolph
Eric Gordon
Joe Alexander
Brook Lopez
Russell Westbrook
Danilo Gallinari

these players are all gone by 15.

Now I am in agreement that this is a deep draft BUT I think the value is at the top of the second round. If Minnesota wanted to move one of their picks I would be very willing to buy it. There is value there. BUT the difference between 6-16 is ENORMOUS no matter what anyone says. Lets say a Bayless falls to 6--so I give up Bayless Zach randolph for Reggie Evans and Chase Budinger? Does anyone see what Im saying? You might get a real nice player in a Giddens a Forbes a DJ white but guess what--go buy a high second rounder and one of those guys will ve there if you so desire. But giving up that second wave of talent from 3-13 or so is DUMB--do NOT trade out and especially not for cap sapce two years from now. I feel very confident saying Lebron James will not be a Knick--we can try to move for cap sapce that year but no reason to give up assets to do so. Baron Davis had 4 years left on a maximum contract in which he was injured and pretty much a low % hog in New Orleans--he changed scenery and style and lo and behold he's solid again. Zach randolph--way too much talent just to pirse and moan over his last year of $$$ if a team wants him--make a reasonable deal--if not let mike D put some value back into him. Why do some of you want to sell at a low--are you Isiahs nephews?
RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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6/6/2008  6:45 PM
aren't u the same guy who called Gallinari the guaranteed bust of the draft? aren't u the one who's been jocking JeVale McGee saying the Knicks would be dumb to pass on a bigman w/his skillset? so i guess now losing out on the chance to draft Danilo & ending up taking McGee w/a lower pick would be a bad move.

ever play this game? i think u'd be real good at it.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
tkf
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6/6/2008  7:45 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by TMS:

Zach will be more tradeable in 2 years no question about that, but IMO there's value in a deal of this nature that you can take advantage of right now... getting rid of Zach helps guys like Curry & D Lee to continue developing & improving on their games... it also gets rid of 1 of the 1 main negative presence players on this roster & adds a nice role player in Evans.

we're not talking about throwing away a #6 pick here, only moving down a few spots to unload the worst contract we have off our books... there are teams out there like the Pacers looking to dump their pick altogether just to get rid of guys like JO, u guys wanna tell me moving down a few spots to unload Zach isn't worth it? none of us have any guarantees what the future holds... all i know is we've been trying to think of ways to get rid of Zach's contract all last year & just about everytime a deal is proposed it's shot down because no one thought there would be any teams out there looking to take on Zach's contract... now that a deal comes along that may be somewhat feasible all of a sudden trading Zach isn't a great idea because you guys are afraid to move down 10 spots in the draft? let's just say Zach helped us to win enough games to finish out of the lottery this year & sneak into the playoffs, would we still be as reluctant to trade him away & hold onto our pick? i don't see any difference there to be honest... the guy isn't helping us win any titles & is not conducive to establishing any kind of winning atmosphere in NY... we need to get rid of him, plain & simple.

The Rockets traded number 8 pick and Stro Show for Shane Battier. Man that trade really crippled the Rockets and propelled the Grizzlies. It did so much so according to most the Grizz felt compelled to give Gasol away for pennies on the dollar. Wait a second then the Rockets followed up this knee jerk trade with other low reward trades not for first round picks but for second pick prospects in Luis Scola and Carl Landry. Man what were the Rockets thinking of with these moves!!!!!

Blue, The freakin' Grizzlies drafted RUDY GAY with that pick!!!
2006

hahahaha.. You beat me to it... I bet the rockets would love to have rudy gay now.. so they could ship T-mac away for pennies on the damn dollar...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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Member: #87
6/6/2008  7:48 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by TMS:

Zach will be more tradeable in 2 years no question about that, but IMO there's value in a deal of this nature that you can take advantage of right now... getting rid of Zach helps guys like Curry & D Lee to continue developing & improving on their games... it also gets rid of 1 of the 1 main negative presence players on this roster & adds a nice role player in Evans.

we're not talking about throwing away a #6 pick here, only moving down a few spots to unload the worst contract we have off our books... there are teams out there like the Pacers looking to dump their pick altogether just to get rid of guys like JO, u guys wanna tell me moving down a few spots to unload Zach isn't worth it? none of us have any guarantees what the future holds... all i know is we've been trying to think of ways to get rid of Zach's contract all last year & just about everytime a deal is proposed it's shot down because no one thought there would be any teams out there looking to take on Zach's contract... now that a deal comes along that may be somewhat feasible all of a sudden trading Zach isn't a great idea because you guys are afraid to move down 10 spots in the draft? let's just say Zach helped us to win enough games to finish out of the lottery this year & sneak into the playoffs, would we still be as reluctant to trade him away & hold onto our pick? i don't see any difference there to be honest... the guy isn't helping us win any titles & is not conducive to establishing any kind of winning atmosphere in NY... we need to get rid of him, plain & simple.

The Rockets traded number 8 pick and Stro Show for Shane Battier. Man that trade really crippled the Rockets and propelled the Grizzlies. It did so much so according to most the Grizz felt compelled to give Gasol away for pennies on the dollar. Wait a second then the Rockets followed up this knee jerk trade with other low reward trades not for first round picks but for second pick prospects in Luis Scola and Carl Landry. Man what were the Rockets thinking of with these moves!!!!!

Blue, The freakin' Grizzlies drafted RUDY GAY with that pick!!!
2006

This guy is all over the board. I would be in reasonable agreemnet with him on Eric Gordon--maybe not my choice but worthy in this style of offense. But this guy wanst to drop that off the table--in fact every poster who wanst to drop the 6th pick off the table for a MEASLY 10mm in cap space for one year.Once you trade out of pick 6 the following players are gone

OJ mayo
Jerryd Bayless
Anthony Randolph
Eric Gordon
Joe Alexander
Brook Lopez
Russell Westbrook
Danilo Gallinari

these players are all gone by 15.

Now I am in agreement that this is a deep draft BUT I think the value is at the top of the second round. If Minnesota wanted to move one of their picks I would be very willing to buy it. There is value there. BUT the difference between 6-16 is ENORMOUS no matter what anyone says. Lets say a Bayless falls to 6--so I give up Bayless Zach randolph for Reggie Evans and Chase Budinger? Does anyone see what Im saying? You might get a real nice player in a Giddens a Forbes a DJ white but guess what--go buy a high second rounder and one of those guys will ve there if you so desire. But giving up that second wave of talent from 3-13 or so is DUMB--do NOT trade out and especially not for cap sapce two years from now. I feel very confident saying Lebron James will not be a Knick--we can try to move for cap sapce that year but no reason to give up assets to do so. Baron Davis had 4 years left on a maximum contract in which he was injured and pretty much a low % hog in New Orleans--he changed scenery and style and lo and behold he's solid again. Zach randolph--way too much talent just to pirse and moan over his last year of $$$ if a team wants him--make a reasonable deal--if not let mike D put some value back into him. Why do some of you want to sell at a low--are you Isiahs nephews?

Uh.. hold up cowboy, I am against this type of deal, you might want to correct that... and I agree, once you move down to 16, that list of guys you have above, are gone... better start looking at the Ty lawyson's and chase Buddinger's of the world...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
majorleads
Posts: 20536
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/29/2006
Member: #1213
6/6/2008  7:52 PM
Briggs and everyone else who agrees with him, so far you guys have not thrown any names out who excite me at 6. There is not a single sure thing there. Bayless? Do we really need a COMBO GUARD who isn't a TRUE POINT and is too small for the SG position? Uh no. I don't really see any difference between whats available at 6 and what will be available at 16. At 16 we could take someone like Donte Green who has a lot of upside. Or McGee or Jordan. We're almost guaranteed at 16 to have one of those big men fall to us. Now obviously they have a lot of work to do to become finished products, but I see that as no different than taking someone like Bayless who can't run the point. Or someone like Gordon who is undersized at the 2. Then you have Galinari who is an unknown. Randolph? Looks nice, but he too he is a project like the 3 players I mentioned at 16.

And this is a great opportunity to rid ourselves of the cancer which is Zach Randolph AND in the process ADD a good piece in Evans who has trade value if we want to go that route.

Also, this is not about being in position only for Lebron or Wade or whoever, this is about breaking down our roster and building it back up to where we regain control of how we want to shape our roster. Right now because we have so many underperforming players with bloated contracts, we aren't in a position of strength. We need to clear roster spots and start developing youngsters from not only the draft, but also over seas and players who slip through the cracks that don't get drafted. You can find hidden gems, but you need the open roster spots to give yourself the chance to find them. That is why we also need to rid ourselves of more crap. Curry is next up. Then Crawful. Buyout Jerome James and Malik Rose too.

And we're not going to have trade next years lottery pick to rid ourselves of Curry and Crawful. Those 2 clowns can be traded for contracts 2 years and less. This is not a Zach Randolph situation.

So in 2010 we will still have our lottery picks and perhaps others if we trade David Lee and Nate. Also we might get some picks out of trading Curry and Crawful. We have a boatload of cap room to go in any direction we want to add in the missing pieces. And we're not waiting around for another team to decide if they want to trade with us. We have the power then. Cap space = power in the NBA if you know how to use it wisely.

And if we don't get Lebron in 2010, no big deal. We'll still be waaaay under the cap and not have a roster full of bloated contracts. We try again the following offseason if there isn't anything great in the free agent market or through sign and trades during the summer of 2010. No rush.

Sure beats the hell out of drafting Bayless while still having Zach Randolph on this roster.
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TrueBlue
Posts: 29144
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 9/20/2006
Member: #1172
6/6/2008  8:40 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by TMS:

Zach will be more tradeable in 2 years no question about that, but IMO there's value in a deal of this nature that you can take advantage of right now... getting rid of Zach helps guys like Curry & D Lee to continue developing & improving on their games... it also gets rid of 1 of the 1 main negative presence players on this roster & adds a nice role player in Evans.

we're not talking about throwing away a #6 pick here, only moving down a few spots to unload the worst contract we have off our books... there are teams out there like the Pacers looking to dump their pick altogether just to get rid of guys like JO, u guys wanna tell me moving down a few spots to unload Zach isn't worth it? none of us have any guarantees what the future holds... all i know is we've been trying to think of ways to get rid of Zach's contract all last year & just about everytime a deal is proposed it's shot down because no one thought there would be any teams out there looking to take on Zach's contract... now that a deal comes along that may be somewhat feasible all of a sudden trading Zach isn't a great idea because you guys are afraid to move down 10 spots in the draft? let's just say Zach helped us to win enough games to finish out of the lottery this year & sneak into the playoffs, would we still be as reluctant to trade him away & hold onto our pick? i don't see any difference there to be honest... the guy isn't helping us win any titles & is not conducive to establishing any kind of winning atmosphere in NY... we need to get rid of him, plain & simple.

The Rockets traded number 8 pick and Stro Show for Shane Battier. Man that trade really crippled the Rockets and propelled the Grizzlies. It did so much so according to most the Grizz felt compelled to give Gasol away for pennies on the dollar. Wait a second then the Rockets followed up this knee jerk trade with other low reward trades not for first round picks but for second pick prospects in Luis Scola and Carl Landry. Man what were the Rockets thinking of with these moves!!!!!

Blue, The freakin' Grizzlies drafted RUDY GAY with that pick!!!
2006

What's the Grizz record since they drafted Rudy?
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
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