Posted by iyamwutiam:
Iam not sure how pointing out that LB has only once been to the finals -has anything to do with Isiah.
First off, after a post where you used the word "fact" more times than I could count, can you at least get it straight that he went to the NBA finals three times with two teams, the ABA finals three times, and the NCAA championships twice, and he won the championship in each of those leagues. No other coach in basketball has had such success under such a diversity of situations, ever.
What this has to do with Isiah is that you said you prefer Isiah's losing style of play, which few here can even define since that style gets redefined on an annual basis. Please remind me, are we the "Suns of the East" now, or a formidable frontline, post-up powerhouse? Is Marbury still our franchise player, or is it Eddy?
You tried to make the point that Philly was emblematic of Brown's true building style (like his other 25 years in the league were irrelevant) and you wouldn't wish that upon the Knicks, even though that Philly team went to the finals, while your preferred style cant get past 33 wins. You sure know how to sell a concept.
As far as the Isiah stuff goes: The main thing -is context- regardless of the incessant propaganda of 'rugged individualism' - we as a country and soon a globe are typified by being organizational beings. Anyone with a job knows -whether you are a GM/CEO etc - you are to toe the organizational line - particularly if you are not the first choice.
1. All I have said was - when your not the first choice, have a bad rap and get this kind of position - he had to tread very carefully.
2. For a guy who prides himself or gets some rep for picking well in the draft - it makes no sense to go out and get Marbury for two draft picks.
3. Getting two hall of fame coaches -ones that were available for whatever reasons - also does not strike me as the thing that an egotistical guy would do- if he had carte blanche.
4. The fact that only he and the 'eternal' herb williams are with the team - lets me know - that he did what he needed to do for the 'organization' and kept his job or source of income. Millions of americans do this everyday- in government and business- with more far reaching and serious consequences than just a bad basketball team.
Some of the mistakes - I do extrapolate out - perhaps wrongly- like Marbury/Jalen Rose/Steve Francis and perhaps Jerome James. However there is no denying - the 'shop for groceries' and te arrival of some of these players- there is enough documentation to make a valid exxtropolation.
Others are clearly in Isiah's court- Curry/Randolph/Crawford/Jeffries- deciding wich rookies to play the most the last two years - Lee/Robinson -as opposed to say Collins and Morris Randolph. I see none of these as bad as Francis, J. Rose, Adnoal Foyle (with the Warriors), trading for Chriss Webber (Philly) etc. Bad maybe - horrible - to me - no.
I love how you think that Isiah wasn't allowed to make his choices but imply Brown was, and after lengthy posts trying to assure us Brown really wanted players like Lynch and Snow you insist that Rose and Francs were Brown's priority. Sheesh. Isiah had turned the roster over a couple of times before Brown got here and we had guys like Marbury, Penny, Jamal, TT, Moochie, Snacks, Curry, etc to show for it. Francis and Rose are a lot more consistent with that style of rebuild than what Philly did when Brown was there.
Really, this whole business of Isiah being impotent because he was Dolan's second choice is silly. All we know is that one newspaper reported the job was first offered to Magic but he declined and recommended Isiah. What if Dolan's true first choice was jerry West, but he declined, would that have equally rendered Magic impotent had he accepted? If Dolan's first choice to replace Isiah will be Walsh but he instead gets Colangelo will he be impotent?
Isiah got to oust and replace many long time fixtures of MSG including the head of the marketing department (Anusha) the capologist, the head team doctor, the trainers, four coaches; even Marv Albert and the head of the Knicks City Dancers got bounced under isiah's watch. We don't know if the latter two were because of Isiah, but I suspect he played a role, and he was directly responsible to all of the aforementioned. That's a lot of juice for a guy you're trying to portray as some sort of figurehead puppet.
I think the that saying Isiah wasn't Dolan's first choice is incorrect from the get-go. I think the better term would be that Magic was his
prior choice. By this I mean that Magic may have only been the first choice by virtue of having been interviewed first, but had they been interviewed somewhat concurrently Isiah may have been the
preferred choice, and I'll tell you why...
Early on in Isiah's tenure, while wilkens was still here, as a TNT analyst Magic was asked what he thought of the direction of the Knicks and he said something along the line of "well they're heading in the right direction record wise, but their first priority has to be to lower their payroll and get that under control." So we see that Dolan was willing to give the job to a guy who would have taken a much different approach than Isiah, who's first order of business was to trade every expiring contract for max contract players and ballooning the payroll from $89M up over $130M in pursuit of guys like Marbury, Hardaway, Crawford, Snacks, Dampier, Francis, Walker, SAR, etc. This totally contradicts your argument that Isiah was simply doing what Dolan asked of him, when in fact he's taken the opposite approach of the guy Dolan wanted first (Magic).
With an ownership stake in the Lakers, Magic was a long shot anyway. Stern told Dolan to talk to him, not necessarily hire him. But Dolan is easily seduced by a nice smile and charisma, so Isiah suited him just as well, if not better.
Don't get me wrong, dude, I appreciate that you're sharing with us your suppositions, that's all any of us can do. But mine are that after realizing his character mandates and meddlesome ways with Layden had failed, Dolan was willing to heed the sound judgment of whomever he installed as the next GM. If Magic told him to take it slow and see what would become of Houston before doing anything rash, he might have done so. But instead Isiah came in and told Dolan (in his typical ego-maniacal and sleazy fashion) that he would do for Dolan what he did for Indiana (trying to take credit for what was done by Walsh).
Isiah told Dolan he would beat the bushes to find talent though unusual means. While retaining veterans for leadership and production he'd infuse the team with youth and athleticism, so as to rebuild while still making the playoffs. And he'd make a more exciting team that NYers like yourself (who seem to like flash over substance) would be proud of. He told Dolan that he knows how to do this because he's already done it in Indiana, and this after laying a solid future through the draft for the expansion Raptors. The only catch was that he'd need lots of cash to lure talent to the moribund team, but once a certain talent level was established it would no longer be necessary to overpay for talent because guys would want to play in NY.
Dolan swallowed it whole. When he saw the excitement (and playoffs) back at MSG after the Marbury trade, and then free agents like Webber, Sheed and Vince saying they'd like to come play for Isiah, Dolan handed over the wallet and gave Isiah pretty much whatever he wanted. I don't think he dictated coaches, I think he just told him to go out and get the best money can buy, just like with players.
And here we are now, with Isiah's team, molded in the style of your preference. Enjoy it, you got what you wanted, so you're the winner.
2/1/2008 2:53 PM