Posted by oohah:

If you didn't care what I say you wouldn't have spent all this time with the back and forth. You would have wrote me off a long time ago. I apologized well before this thread you just don't recall and that's cool and not accepting my apology is cool also. I enjoyed every bit of this. You haven't posted this frequent in a while and it's nice to know I've had this kind of impact on your life.

Stay Cool and Enjoy the High-Fives oohah!

Truebloser: Spewing Racial slurs and totally unrepentant! You're no better than Thomas, in fact, you are much worse.

Go find yourself a personal moral compass before thou cast thy judgments upon others.

Jigaboo and Spook...from a black man no less, how sad.

oohah

Oohah I see you're still hanging on to what I say and said but you said you didn't care but you do. I'm not worth the anguish just write me off and send me to the UK Sheol.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by oohah:


1) Is it worse (or better) when a black man calls another black man a jigaboo and spook than when a white man does it?

Not to get in the way of the beautiful music you guys are making, but what is the correct answer to this question?

Posted by oohah:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by oohah:


1) Is it worse (or better) when a black man calls another black man a jigaboo and spook than when a white man does it?

Not to get in the way of the beautiful music you guys are making, but what is the correct answer to this question?

It's always extremely bad, but it's worse when one black person does it to another. I have to work now, I'll explain later if you like, but it has to do with the self-loathing and prejudice bred into the black community in the past 400 years.

oohah

Interesting so you must feel the way the Black community uses the N word in it's community has done far more damage than how it was originally used.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by oohah:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by oohah:


1) Is it worse (or better) when a black man calls another black man a jigaboo and spook than when a white man does it?

Not to get in the way of the beautiful music you guys are making, but what is the correct answer to this question?

It's always extremely bad, but it's worse when one black person does it to another. I have to work now, I'll explain later if you like, but it has to do with the self-loathing and prejudice bred into the black community in the past 400 years.

oohah

I figured that's what you were getting at. It's one of those things that could be argued either way, because Isiah, and those who've backed his explanation, seem to feel otherwise.

It was one of my arguments as to why I felt what he said was double edged it effected a gender and a race because it could be looked at as him conditioning a race. I would have felt no different if I SAY UGH was white or if ABS was white and he inserted the distinction against a black male. I feel what he said was wrong period it just so happens to possibly have a compounding affect.

Posted by oohah:

I figured that's what you were getting at. It's one of those things that could be argued either way, because Isiah, and those who've backed his explanation, seem to feel otherwise.

Every individual of every color has a different individual opinion of how these things are viewed.

Actually, Calling someone a racial slur outright like truebloser did is way different from the possible implied racism of "bitch", or the unfortunate co-opting of the word "Nigger" by some black people in America.

You see, when one black person calls another "my nigger" or something along those lines, it is ignorant but it is not a slur. Not so when a white person does the same (usually).

However, a black person hurling an all out slur like jigaboo or spook is worse than a white person doing it in my view. The reason is if white person does it, they are expressing hate for another, which is very unfortunate.

But when a black person hurls jigaboo or spook, that implies a self-hate, and the connotation that not only the person who is being slurred is "lower" but that the hurlee is lower as well.

Of course the black man hurling jigaboo or spook is thinking: "He is the spook, not me!", but the in the end game it renders all black people "spooks".

***

Damn you all, I have to get back to work.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 29-10-2007 10:21 PM]

Posted by oohah:

Do you feel it's worse if a white calls a black "bitch"?

It all depends. It isn't as black and white (ha!) as it seems to be, and I don't think Thomas meant it that way either.

You really have to be there when it happens. All sorts of people act like bitches. Being called a bitch doesn't usually have a racial connotation in my view, though it could. I don't think "bitch" has the same stereotype attached to it as a white man calling a black man 'boy'.

In that case I would say it is worse for a white man to do it because he knows exactly what he is saying.

So maybe Isiah was off on that one. The thing is, I don't think the comment itself is any big deal. So Thomas thinks that a white man calling a black woman a bitch is worse. Who gives a rat's ass? It wasn't like he called her a jigaboo or spook!

And trust me, if Dolan calls Browne-Sanders a bitch, Isiah doesn't have a problem with it.

oohah

I agree with most of your comments, though you lost me going from the second paragraph, where say the term 'bitch' does NOT generally carry racial connotations, to the third paragraph were you say that's it's therefor worse when a white does it because they know exactly what they are saying. What are they saying?

How significant is any of this in real life? I don't know, very significant for some. People lose careers over stuff like this.

The significance of Isiah's feelings here is that he gave the impression that coming out of certain people's mouths the behavior towards Ms Browne was acceptable. I know he said it wasn't, but he didn't leave it at that. The net effect is it sounded duplicitous. At worst it sounds like he's saying "I didn't do it, but if she proves I did, it's not that bad because I'm black." At best it suggests he makes exceptions on an as-needed basis.

But I'm actually more fascinated by his explanation that the word "bitch" from the mouth of a white man carries racial connotations. I honestly never knew that. Others may feel differently, but my perception has always ben that whites use the word "bitch" almost interchangeably with "witch," and I never have metal connotations of black witches. As used by whites the term indicates an intense dislike and disrespect for the person because of their unpleasantness. It says "I don't like you, I want to be away from you," something along the lines of calling a guy an "Azzhole".

I understand racial hatred could inform such feelings but that is in no way implied.

OTOH, my perception is that in the black community the term is used more frequently akin to the term "'ho", like like a pimp might refer to his girl as his bitch. It carries much more a sense of ownership and domination, at least when used in that context. So wen a black says it it implies a sluttiness and subservience closer to ownership, which I would think a woman would find more offensive than simple dislike, but what do I know...

In the end it's the duplicitous nature of the whole thing that is where I come down on Isiah. I don't think that a person muttering "bitch" under their breath as they leave an argument is the worst thing in the world, and I hope not to come across as sanctimonious about stuff like that. However, my perception of this case was that Isiah wanted her out, and he was willing to apply many means of hostility and manipulation to do so, including (allegedly) calling her a "black, bitch, ho," not punishing Marbury for doing similar, and later sliming her with phony, gratuitous "charm". IOW, conducting himself in the manner of himself as a pimp and she as his "bitch". That amounts to gender harassment. He was steamrolling her, as he did so many others in the organization (coaches, announcers, trainers, doctors, capologists, marketing managers, cousins, etc, ) on his way to establishing himself as the undisputed Emperor of the franchise.

Is that bad like muredering someone? No, but is it bad enough to warrant fines, damages, back-pay etc? Yes, apparently so.

And has this managerial style proven itself successful for him in Toronto, the CBA, Indiana, or here such that we want it continued unabated in perpetuity? No, not well enough for me.

I agree with most of your comments, though you lost me going from the second paragraph, where say the term 'bitch' does NOT generally carry racial connotations, to the third paragraph were you say that's it's therefor worse when a white does it because they know exactly what they are saying. What are they saying?