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Isiah Thomas Found Guilty Of Harassment
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martin
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10/2/2007  5:18 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by BlueSeats:
a institutional harassment all the way at the top ranks of management of the home franchise?

We'll have to agreeto disagree about how far this goes. My guess is it has little to do with a differing of opinion on the Anucha Browne case (you know as much as I do) and everything to do with where we stood on the organization before the case ever went to trial.

For example: You think Isiah's firing of Coaches every year is indicative of institutional harassment.

I think Isiah had no reason to keep Chaney who he didn’t hire and lets face it, was a terrible coach. Lenny Wilkens was losing it, and we were losing games as a result. He has even resigned from his position in Seattle where he was Vice Chairman for all of a year. There was no way the team could bring Larry Brown back, Brown himself made sure of that.

Nor can I see the roster turnover or his firing of a widely criticized team physician (recall his handling of Ewing and Camby?) in the same Anucha-Decker-gate framed glasses.

So thats where we are going to have to leave it from my end.

That's only one small part or piece of the institutional harassment Blue was talking about, not one example that defines it as you seem to want to define it as.
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BlueSeats
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10/2/2007  5:28 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by BlueSeats:
a institutional harassment all the way at the top ranks of management of the home franchise?

We'll have to agreeto disagree about how far this goes. My guess is it has little to do with a differing of opinion on the Anucha Browne case (you know as much as I do) and everything to do with where we stood on the organization before the case ever went to trial.

For example: You think Isiah's firing of Coaches every year is indicative of institutional harassment.

I think Isiah had no reason to keep Chaney who he didn’t hire and lets face it, was a terrible coach. Lenny Wilkens was losing it, and we were losing games as a result. He has even resigned from his position in Seattle where he was Vice Chairman for all of a year. There was no way the team could bring Larry Brown back, Brown himself made sure of that.

But he hired Wilkens and Brown, the guys you insist could not have worked out, and did not hire guys he could work with. (Are there any?)
Nor can I see the roster turnover or his firing of a widely criticized team physician (recall his handling of Ewing and Camby?) in the same Anucha-Decker-gate framed glasses.

Fine, fire Dr Norman Scott, who cares, but some of the trainers had been with the organization for decades and were regarded the tops in the field. They got immediate employment elsewhere.

Meanwhile, Isiah hired Lisa Callahan, who found the problems with Vin Baker's heart and reportedly fixed him up as isiah gave him the MLE. How well did that work out? Vin never looked worse. If injuries have been the excuse to assage so many of our poor seasons under Isiah how well can we say his medical staff hirings are performing?

The point is he was on a firing binge, demonstrating an inability to work with existing personelle at all ranks, and I think that sends shockwaves throughout the organization. Fear, folly and instability have been the hallmarks of his tenure here.
So thats where we are going to have to leave it from my end.

Good enough, but I think however one looks at it they can't deny that Isiah has been a tempest in a tea kettle, much like he was in his dealings with the CBA, and I'm not surprised his chickens have come home to roost today.

(are two cliches in one sentence too many?)
RemBee76
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10/2/2007  5:52 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

But he hired Wilkens and Brown, the guys you insist could not have worked out, and did not hire guys he could work with. (Are there any?)

Yes Isiah hired Wilkens and Brown (although rumor is LB was pushed by Dolan) and he fired them when they didn't work out. Is it really more complicated than that? I mean, are you arguing that they were working out?

Isiah seems to work with his assistant coaches just fine. In fact he may have one of the larger assistant coach corps in the league. He has also worked just fine with his players, best as I could tell. I would say most of them respect him and his decisions.
Posted by BlueSeats:
The point is he was on a firing binge, demonstrating an inability to work with existing personelle at all ranks, and I think that sends shockwaves throughout the organization. Fear, folly and instability have been the hallmarks of his tenure here.

I think you are massively overstating this. Who is afraid? His players, his coaches? Who?

Isiah took over an organization that was due for its third lottery appearance in a row, an organization that had shown a complete inability to draft or retain its youth, headed by a GM who is now three rows back in Utah charting deflections as an assistant to an assistant coach.

From where I'm sitting, cleaning house wasn't a bad idea, and not unusual when a big change happens at the top. In fact, Isiah was hired to make big changes, its why Dolan went with a big name to replace Layden. The massive personnel changes (in the front office and on the court) were a calculated attempt to find something that works, when it was very clear that what we had wasn't. 15 years of riding Patrick Ewing to the playoffs had made the organization complacent, and I for one fully supported showing some of the MSG dinosaurs the door.

The changes failed, for the most part, I won't argue with you there. Doesn't mean they failed just because there were changes. And I still think relating it to Anucha's complaints, or implying that Isiah made an intern think that "towing the line" meant sleeping with the point guard (a pretty serious accusation it should probably be added) is a stretch. In some cases, a huge one.





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NumberTwoPencil
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10/2/2007  6:17 PM
...Isiah reminds me of G W Bush...

Please. I don't like either of them but Zeke was a very good, perhaps even great, winning player. Our current president was, apparently, a successful cheerleader. Zeke can speak in complete sentences. He even comes off as a smart guy once in a while. He may be a bad sexist a--hole but he's no W.
Vmart
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10/2/2007  7:45 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Obviously Dolan just KNEW he could absolutely squash Anucha, but looks like his ego got in the way, and now MSG and their fans have been embarrassed, officially.


I'm a fan and tell you the truth I could careless about this whole thing. Everyone here has a brain to know that you could one day be riding high and someone can knock you down. The legal system is super flawed and will always be superflawed. Now its up to the appeal process to make sure the results were right or wrong. I personally think Isiah got jobbed by the jury. Its over now and as a fan I just want to move on and focus on BBall.
tkf
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10/2/2007  9:23 PM
Posted by toodarkmark:

I guess in the overall scheme of justice I understand your point. But you have to consider the fact that if she got awarded 500k, it would not affect MSG at all. A drop in the bucket. To really affect them, to show them the "wrongness" of their actions, it has to be a larger amount.

If I had been sued, with my finances, 100$ wouldve wrecked me.
Posted by tkf:

I am not defending MSG, read my post, I said they all are culpable, I am just upset at how a system can award money to this lady for having a huge hand in her own fate. She helped create such an enviornment..

As far as your case goes, I am sorry that happened to you, and I don't know your finances, but if you were worth 20 mil, I bet your ass that case was going to trial.....


LOL.. funny one mark.. I feel ya. But honestly, dolan paid larry brown damn near 40 mil for nothing, he has eaten the contracts of anderson and jerome williams, so really 11 mil is not enough to really make a stubborn guy like dolan change his ways. His family is worth billions, 11 mil is chump change, even for him.

But let me ask you this, now that annucha has inherited 11.6 mil, should the IRS now penalize her 100x what the normal penalty is for tax fraud now that is 100x richer than she was before? If she was making 2.5 mil a year instead of 250k, I could see the jury saying well she missed 3 years of work, and was fired unlawfully, lets award her 7.5 mil plus a mil in damages and give her 8.5 mil,but 11.6 mil is way out of line, considering this case!

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Vmart
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10/2/2007  9:40 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by toodarkmark:

I guess in the overall scheme of justice I understand your point. But you have to consider the fact that if she got awarded 500k, it would not affect MSG at all. A drop in the bucket. To really affect them, to show them the "wrongness" of their actions, it has to be a larger amount.

If I had been sued, with my finances, 100$ wouldve wrecked me.
Posted by tkf:

I am not defending MSG, read my post, I said they all are culpable, I am just upset at how a system can award money to this lady for having a huge hand in her own fate. She helped create such an enviornment..

As far as your case goes, I am sorry that happened to you, and I don't know your finances, but if you were worth 20 mil, I bet your ass that case was going to trial.....


LOL.. funny one mark.. I feel ya. But honestly, dolan paid larry brown damn near 40 mil for nothing, he has eaten the contracts of anderson and jerome williams, so really 11 mil is not enough to really make a stubborn guy like dolan change his ways. His family is worth billions, 11 mil is chump change, even for him.

But let me ask you this, now that annucha has inherited 11.6 mil, should the IRS now penalize her 100x what the normal penalty is for tax fraud now that is 100x richer than she was before? If she was making 2.5 mil a year instead of 250k, I could see the jury saying well she missed 3 years of work, and was fired unlawfully, lets award her 7.5 mil plus a mil in damages and give her 8.5 mil,but 11.6 mil is way out of line, considering this case!

My friend money that is awarded from a trial is tax free.
tkf
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10/2/2007  9:55 PM
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by toodarkmark:

I guess in the overall scheme of justice I understand your point. But you have to consider the fact that if she got awarded 500k, it would not affect MSG at all. A drop in the bucket. To really affect them, to show them the "wrongness" of their actions, it has to be a larger amount.

If I had been sued, with my finances, 100$ wouldve wrecked me.
Posted by tkf:

I am not defending MSG, read my post, I said they all are culpable, I am just upset at how a system can award money to this lady for having a huge hand in her own fate. She helped create such an enviornment..

As far as your case goes, I am sorry that happened to you, and I don't know your finances, but if you were worth 20 mil, I bet your ass that case was going to trial.....


LOL.. funny one mark.. I feel ya. But honestly, dolan paid larry brown damn near 40 mil for nothing, he has eaten the contracts of anderson and jerome williams, so really 11 mil is not enough to really make a stubborn guy like dolan change his ways. His family is worth billions, 11 mil is chump change, even for him.

But let me ask you this, now that annucha has inherited 11.6 mil, should the IRS now penalize her 100x what the normal penalty is for tax fraud now that is 100x richer than she was before? If she was making 2.5 mil a year instead of 250k, I could see the jury saying well she missed 3 years of work, and was fired unlawfully, lets award her 7.5 mil plus a mil in damages and give her 8.5 mil,but 11.6 mil is way out of line, considering this case!

My friend money that is awarded from a trial is tax free.

follow me vmart, I am talking about the 3 year tax scam she had going on some years ago If the IRS decides to investigate and find here guilty of tax evasion, should they increase their penalty to teach her a lesson now that she has a lot of money as opposed to before? I am not talking about taxing her gift from the idiotic jurors, but the extent of a hypothetical IRS audit now that she is richer than she could imagine in her wildest dreams...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
playa2
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10/2/2007  10:05 PM
Terry give it a break. Ice isn't here . MSG just lost .

[Edited by - playa2 on 02-10-2007 22:06]
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
4949
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10/2/2007  10:17 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:

They got SONNED by a strong Black Woman!

They got sued by a strong women who was sexually harrassed. Period!
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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10/2/2007  10:20 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:

Maybe the only positive that can come out of this is maybe these idiots have learned a lesson in humility. Maybe they will take their jobs more seriously on a daily basis and conduct themselves are professionals. And for the NITWITTED thinking that says "well this goes on everywhere even in everyday corporate America doesn't condone the fact of the wrong and our organization not having enough control over the situations to make sure they stay in house. They're getting what they deserve.

It should stay in the house, only' if it is properly investigated and dealt with the right way. Not fire everyone for saying something about it and having it lead to the public like these *******s did. But hey' they really did us a favor. Dolan is legally in trouble for the first time that I can remember. That's a good thing!
I'll never trust this' team again.
Vmart
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10/2/2007  10:49 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by toodarkmark:

I guess in the overall scheme of justice I understand your point. But you have to consider the fact that if she got awarded 500k, it would not affect MSG at all. A drop in the bucket. To really affect them, to show them the "wrongness" of their actions, it has to be a larger amount.

If I had been sued, with my finances, 100$ wouldve wrecked me.
Posted by tkf:

I am not defending MSG, read my post, I said they all are culpable, I am just upset at how a system can award money to this lady for having a huge hand in her own fate. She helped create such an enviornment..

As far as your case goes, I am sorry that happened to you, and I don't know your finances, but if you were worth 20 mil, I bet your ass that case was going to trial.....


LOL.. funny one mark.. I feel ya. But honestly, dolan paid larry brown damn near 40 mil for nothing, he has eaten the contracts of anderson and jerome williams, so really 11 mil is not enough to really make a stubborn guy like dolan change his ways. His family is worth billions, 11 mil is chump change, even for him.

But let me ask you this, now that annucha has inherited 11.6 mil, should the IRS now penalize her 100x what the normal penalty is for tax fraud now that is 100x richer than she was before? If she was making 2.5 mil a year instead of 250k, I could see the jury saying well she missed 3 years of work, and was fired unlawfully, lets award her 7.5 mil plus a mil in damages and give her 8.5 mil,but 11.6 mil is way out of line, considering this case!

My friend money that is awarded from a trial is tax free.

follow me vmart, I am talking about the 3 year tax scam she had going on some years ago If the IRS decides to investigate and find here guilty of tax evasion, should they increase their penalty to teach her a lesson now that she has a lot of money as opposed to before? I am not talking about taxing her gift from the idiotic jurors, but the extent of a hypothetical IRS audit now that she is richer than she could imagine in her wildest dreams...

My bad, I see your point.
newyorknewyork
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10/2/2007  11:56 PM
After listening to Saunders speak and hearing her voice for the first time on ESPN. Its hard to picture her as a bad person. While its real easy to picture Isiah the bad guy. Its easy to see why she won her case. She has a delicate voice and has that white girl/corperate tone. While Isiah as that south side of chicago thing to him.

After hearing her voice I can't picture her ever doing something bad in her life.
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Papabear
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10/3/2007  12:22 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

After listening to Saunders speak and hearing her voice for the first time on ESPN. Its hard to picture her as a bad person. While its real easy to picture Isiah the bad guy. Its easy to see why she won her case. She has a delicate voice and has that white girl/corperate tone. While Isiah as that south side of chicago thing to him.

After hearing her voice I can't picture her ever doing something bad in her life.

Papabear Says

You are right and that is why the appeals court will throw this case out because they will look at the evidence. None of the jurors will talk about why they came up with this decission. What they are saying is every witness that testified for the defense was irrelivent. This case will take years and Dolan has the money to hold her off. Winning is one thing but getting the money is another.
The best thing they can do is the appeals court throw this ruling out and then they settle. I was surprised that no one was really making a big deal in the news about it.

Papabear

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10/3/2007  12:39 AM
There's no guarantee that an appeals court will even see this case.
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Isiah Thomas Found Guilty Of Harassment
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