Let's just say that this team has some guys who are very good production guys and Curry is more of a force in an intangible way. He has an impact on the way this team plays and how teams play us. When you factor in Curry's impact and Zach and Lee's production, you have a very strong F/C contingent. Then we've got guys like Balkman as well. I think as a fan there's PLENTY to be happy about when it comes to this team. On a nightly basis we wont be losing the F/C battle very often.

As a fan i'm pleased with the direction this team is headed. We've established an identity and focus for the team. It's clear where our strengths are gonna be. I'm really looking forward to this season.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by islesfan:

Where's the evidence that they're moving in that direction? Collecting a bunch of underachieving overpaid castoff malcontets, one dimensional players and late draft picks that project to be role players isn't evidence of the makings of a championship team.

See this is where I think you're wrong. You choose to ignore the signs that this team is improving and that's just not right. You're not willing to allow this team to develop. This team was playing like a .500 team for much of the season, until the major injuries hit. That was GROWTH from the year before and from the start of the season. You can look at the fact that the team increased it's winning % each month and that didn't change until we got hit by the injuries. Could they have responded better after the injuries and won more games, yeah, but to try and say that they didn't show any improvement is just plain wrong.

So you refuse to recognize the improvements Isiah has made to the team this summer and that also bothers me. Why would you refuse to give this team any credit for improving the roster? It's likely that we will see our returning young players play with more confidence this year as well. There should be more chemistry from the start this year. Most important is that this isn't the end for this team. We still have the chance to improve the team from within or by a trade. I just don't agree with your assessment of the team at all.

I'm choosing to ignore what signs? I've acknowledged Zach's basketball abilities but unlike you, I haven't completely ignored his troubles as a malcontent and a criminal. He's not a team player, he's not a winning player but he's most definitely a selfish player. He's the definition of a stat whore loser. He'll put up decent numbers but his team will always lose more than it wins.

Low ceiling players don't develop into high ceiling players. That's what the Knicks young players are. None of them even have the ceiling that Al Jefferson does.

Last year's "growth" that you keep harping on was based on a 35 game stretch where they played an inordinate amount of teams that were .500 or below at the time. That was as much of the reason for that moderate improvement. But then they caved the rest of the season. Larry Brown wasn't allowed to use injuries as an excuse, so don't start using them for Isiah. As Bill Parcells says, "You are what your record says you are."

What improvements has Isiah made this summer that you're taking such great offense to my missing? Don't give me this "It's likely" and "There should" crap either. I'm sick of you using that nonsense. You can't just assume improvement. Nate is the same player he's been since he's been here and Frye didn't improve from his rookie year to last year.

I never said this is the end for this team. We all know that the chances of Isiah turning over this roster again is better than not. But like I said in my last post:

They have quantity over quality. With all of these young players, do they have anybody that projects to be the kind of player that Al Jefferson does? Not even close. Nobody wants what the Knicks have to offer, unless it's to dump their garbage on the Knicks. There isn't a team out there willing to trade their quality players for anybody on the Knicks. Don't you think that's a problem?

When it comes to drafting role players, Isiah is your man. When it comes to every other part of a GM's job, Isiah is a total incompetent.

Isiah's ineptitude is limiting the Knicks options to improve the club. But I'm sure the fact that he's not very well liked, doesn't help matters.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by djsunyc:

let's say the knicks young player DO have value...maybe it's isiah the gm in his negotiations that's the problem. maybe other gm's want to fleece the knicks b/c isiah's the guy in charge and b/c of that, we can't make deals for big time players but only for guys that team's are looking to dump?

you can say isiah is a good drafter/talent evaluator, but in this league, trades play a major role in building a team and maybe his negotiation skillset is far below his drafting acumen?

it's about who you know...ainge knew mchale and they worked out a deal.

is isiah's relationship with other gm's limiting our options to improve the club?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-31-2007 8:55 PM]

He is good friends with Dumars if that makes you feel better. omg. So now you have to part of some clique. Riley and Thorn seem to like him so can he play with them? There were potential trades that Thomas turned down to hold on to some his assets. Now you can fault him on that but to say they don't want to deal with him is crap. Jordan was ready to deal with him, Jordan but wanted Lee. Ron Artest is on the table right now for Lee but Thomas doesn't want to give him up. That's more of a problem when to let go of your prospects.

i'm not saying people don't want to trade with him...i'm asking WHAT gm's are willing to trade isiah...

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by djsunyc:

let's say the knicks young player DO have value...maybe it's isiah the gm in his negotiations that's the problem. maybe other gm's want to fleece the knicks b/c isiah's the guy in charge and b/c of that, we can't make deals for big time players but only for guys that team's are looking to dump?

you can say isiah is a good drafter/talent evaluator, but in this league, trades play a major role in building a team and maybe his negotiation skillset is far below his drafting acumen?

it's about who you know...ainge knew mchale and they worked out a deal.

is isiah's relationship with other gm's limiting our options to improve the club?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-31-2007 8:55 PM]

He is good friends with Dumars if that makes you feel better. omg. So now you have to part of some clique. Riley and Thorn seem to like him so can he play with them? There were potential trades that Thomas turned down to hold on to some his assets. Now you can fault him on that but to say they don't want to deal with him is crap. Jordan was ready to deal with him, Jordan but wanted Lee. Ron Artest is on the table right now for Lee but Thomas doesn't want to give him up. That's more of a problem when to let go of your prospects.

i'm not saying people don't want to trade with him...i'm asking WHAT gm's are willing to trade isiah...

Dawson, Pritchard, Paxson, Colangelo, Popovich, Dumars i'll assume... and i don't see why Kupchak, Riley, Mullin/Nelson, etc. wouldn't either. What does Jerry West have against Isiah? It's just a North Carolina thing with LB and MJ and Karl.

All this negativity ... I need some relief!

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by nixluva:


This team is better now than it was at this time last year. We'll benefit from the changes in the lineup and a tighter rotation. We won't be hoping that Frye can have a good game or that Francis won't destroy the offensive sets with his overdribbling and poor shot selection. Instead we'll have Zach in place of Frye and that's a huge improvement right there. That should prevent the poor starts in the 1st and 3rd qtrs. If you don't see that there's a difference to starting the season with Steph, Francis, Q, Frye & Eddy, verses Steph, Jamal, Q, Zach & Eddy, then I don't know what to tell you. If you can't see how having a more confident Lee, Balkman, Mardy, Jared & Nate come off the bench will make us better then what can I say.

Nix, I'm really not looking to prod at your posts but this post is basically just a copy of your posts from last offseason, just change the names. You told everyone last year that if they didn't see how Francis/Marbury won't work and they won't score a ton of points in the fast offense than you had no idea what we were looking at. You also thought that the fast offense would stop the poor starts in the 1st and 3rd quarters. I dunno man.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-31-2007 10:13 PM]

Point taken NYK, these guys have to prove it. I think the difference is that there are better tools available if Isiah so chooses to use them. If he goes to battle with Jeffries and Craw getting heavy minutes then we'll have some rough patches. If he decides to sit them when they are ineffective for more balanced 2 way players like Mardy, Chandler and Balkman then we'll be a team to contend with. A healthy Q makes this a wholly different team as well if that can be believed.

Last year Isiah had one dimensional options to bring in, its a better situation now. Its up to him to use it well.

ps eny for moderator!