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The Key Is To Build Around Curry...
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EnySpree
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4/22/2007  6:33 PM
The backcourt for the knicks is pretty much set. I think we all expect francis to get waived or if its possible, traded. Nate is on the fence cuz of his sideshow act.

Curry needs to watch film with coaches throughout the summer to learn why he sucks on defense and how he can fix that. Aguirre already said he was gonna do that with curry. Curry also needs to get more decisive, and aggressive with his moves. Curry has shown he is a quick learner and has the desire to get better. I can't see him not taking another step in the right direction.

Aside from currys own development, he needs a true sidekick. Every good bigman needs one. Ewing had oakley. Shaq had Horace back in the day. Even mutumbo had Tyrone hill when Philly went to the finals. Curry needs help. David lee was good but at the very least the knicks need a better option when David lee is hurt or in foul trouble. The preference would be someone better than lee. If that can't be obtained then someone other than channing! Malik showed his worth so maybe a lee and malik tandem could work next year. Isiah still needs a better alternative than frye and Jerome James!

Then the knicks have to either pray balkman develops a jumpshot fast or Q comes back next year with a new found health. Knicks are stacked at the 3 with balkman, Jared, and Q. A 4th player would add to the depth and help fight the injury bug but someone won't be one bit happy about their minutes.

So anyway the knicks need a swingman preferably a rookie, a real bigman either better than lee or better than the waste that is Jerome James and frye.

Simple aint it? But quite clever.

So can we out down the bs stats and magnifing glasses?

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bobs3304
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4/22/2007  6:56 PM
The backcourt for the knicks is pretty much set. I think we all expect francis to get waived or if its possible, traded. Nate is on the fence cuz of his sideshow act.
Curry needs to watch film with coaches throughout the summer to learn why he sucks on defense and how he can fix that. Aguirre already said he was gonna do that with curry. Curry also needs to get more decisive, and aggressive with his moves. Curry has shown he is a quick learner and has the desire to get better. I can't see him not taking another step in the right direction.

Aside from currys own development, he needs a true sidekick. Every good bigman needs one. Ewing had oakley. Shaq had Horace back in the day. Even mutumbo had Tyrone hill when Philly went to the finals. Curry needs help. David lee was good but at the very least the knicks need a better option when David lee is hurt or in foul trouble. The preference would be someone better than lee. If that can't be obtained then someone other than channing! Malik showed his worth so maybe a lee and malik tandem could work next year. Isiah still needs a better alternative than frye and Jerome James!

Then the knicks have to either pray balkman develops a jumpshot fast or Q comes back next year with a new found health. Knicks are stacked at the 3 with balkman, Jared, and Q. A 4th player would add to the depth and help fight the injury bug but someone won't be one bit happy about their minutes.

So anyway the knicks need a swingman preferably a rookie, a real bigman either better than lee or better than the waste that is Jerome James and frye.

Simple aint it? But quite clever.

So can we out down the bs stats and magnifing glasses?

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
BlueSeats
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4/22/2007  7:18 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

The backcourt for the knicks is pretty much set. I think we all expect francis to get waived or if its possible, traded. Nate is on the fence cuz of his sideshow act.

Curry needs to watch film with coaches throughout the summer to learn why he sucks on defense and how he can fix that. Aguirre already said he was gonna do that with curry. Curry also needs to get more decisive, and aggressive with his moves. Curry has shown he is a quick learner and has the desire to get better. I can't see him not taking another step in the right direction.

Aside from currys own development, he needs a true sidekick. Every good bigman needs one. Ewing had oakley. Shaq had Horace back in the day. Even mutumbo had Tyrone hill when Philly went to the finals. Curry needs help. David lee was good but at the very least the knicks need a better option when David lee is hurt or in foul trouble. The preference would be someone better than lee. If that can't be obtained then someone other than channing! Malik showed his worth so maybe a lee and malik tandem could work next year. Isiah still needs a better alternative than frye and Jerome James!

Then the knicks have to either pray balkman develops a jumpshot fast or Q comes back next year with a new found health. Knicks are stacked at the 3 with balkman, Jared, and Q. A 4th player would add to the depth and help fight the injury bug but someone won't be one bit happy about their minutes.

So anyway the knicks need a swingman preferably a rookie, a real bigman either better than lee or better than the waste that is Jerome James and frye.

Simple aint it? But quite clever.

So can we out down the bs stats and magnifing glasses?


Eny, the problem is no position on the knicks is really "set". We know Marbury and curry will start because Isiah gave up so much for them and made them the face of the franchise, but neither of them are close to top flight talent. At 7 and 11 or 12 years in the league, they're both still projects.

And while you think we're most in need of help at the 3 and 4 positions, others feel Balkman and Lee are two of our most significant future pieces. If they're expendable, what does it say not just of them, but of the rest of the squad as well?

So when you say we are "set," do you mean they are top tier talent, or that we know how Isiah doles out roles by salary and draft slot, or that we have players who we know Isiah wont, or can't, trade?

Bonn1997
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4/22/2007  7:26 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

Curry is a nice offensive weapon, but when you consider other aspects of the game he falls considerably. For instance, looking at his Efficiency rating puts him at 15th amongst centers, and 70th amongst all players:

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/playerstats/07/16/eff

And when we look at the team's center position EFF differential we rank 24th in the league. IOW, center is a weak spot for the Knicks relative to the league. So in spite of their size, the combined efforts of Eddy, Frye, James and Cato aren't serving justice:

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/positionstats/07/10/diffeff

And in match-ups against top 10 centers Eddy has won 4 match-ups (Jefferson 2x, Amare and Chandler each once) and lost 7 (Amare, Camby, OK4, Brand, Jefferson, Howard, Okur).

Of Eddy's 81 starts this year he only won 43 of his match-ups, which is just slightly more than half, making him roughly average at his position - which makes sense for his #15 ranking.

Is it a crime to be average in this league? No.

Is it a crime for the Knicks to build a mediocre team around an average player? You decide.
Good work. None of these numbers are surprising. Any way you look at it, Curry is roughly an average NBA player. That's what happens when you're great at one thing and awful at everything else. How many players better than Curry will we have given up the opportunity to get by trading for Curry? My guess is two or three, or possibly all six!
bobs3304
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4/22/2007  7:36 PM
I personally think Eddy has the *potential* to be the BEST low post scorer in the game.....and average at everything else.


Basically an All-Star caliber Center in a weak Center league...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
EnySpree
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4/22/2007  7:49 PM
Blueseats - you like to over analize everything.

I think the backcourt is set cuz marbs and craw work well together and are both capable of carrying the team by themselves. Mardy has emerged as a big point guard that plays well on both sides of the ball. Nate is on thin ice but he can shoot and score. That's a very talented backcourt. If you add Q to the mix or somekind of off-season addition then its pretty much "set".

The frontcourt is what needs improvement the most. Isiah needs to find a way to get curry constant help. Lee did his thing and made plenty of plays that kept the knicks in games or actually won some. When lee went down that was the season cuz other than him nobody stepped up. Malik came through like a pro but too late. Frye, Jerome, and cato = wastes of life. Isiah has to find some servicable guys that can fill in as starters or if he can, get someone in here better than lee.

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Bonn1997
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4/22/2007  8:40 PM
Did you say Marbs and Craw work well together?
BlueSeats
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4/22/2007  8:54 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Blueseats - you like to over analize everything.

I think the backcourt is set cuz marbs and craw work well together and are both capable of carrying the team by themselves. Mardy has emerged as a big point guard that plays well on both sides of the ball. Nate is on thin ice but he can shoot and score. That's a very talented backcourt. If you add Q to the mix or somekind of off-season addition then its pretty much "set".

The frontcourt is what needs improvement the most. Isiah needs to find a way to get curry constant help. Lee did his thing and made plenty of plays that kept the knicks in games or actually won some. When lee went down that was the season cuz other than him nobody stepped up. Malik came through like a pro but too late. Frye, Jerome, and cato = wastes of life. Isiah has to find some servicable guys that can fill in as starters or if he can, get someone in here better than lee.

You say our backcourt is set because Marbury and Crawford work well together, but Crawford has barely even started for us the last two seasons, and before that, when he did, we won 33 games.

But forget the record, it's not about that. I'm of the school that feels positions are set when you know who your best players are, what position they'll play, and that they work well together. Otherwise it's an experiment.

Generically one can state Marbury is our best guard, but I'm not sure he's our best PG, nor our best SG. I don't like the way he runs the offense, mixes his coring and distributing, or feeds the post. With the emergence of Mardy, I don't even think Marbury is our best defensive PG. If Steph gets moved to SG he's rather undersized. Is he a better SG than Crawford, Q or Nate?

One writter said it best last year. If Iverson is "The Answer" Steph has to be considered "The Question". Will he go with the gameplan, will he play the 1 or the 2, will he defend, will he stay within the offense, will he feed the bigs, will he be Marbury, Starbury or Dingelbury?

If he and Isiah decide his scoring serves the team better than his distributing, who the mans the point? Who's the better PG between Crawford and Mardy? Does Nate even have a future here?

Once upon a time we were set at PG with Mark Jackson and Rod Strickland. But sure enough we ended up with Mo Cheeks, Doc Rivers and Derek Harper, because management wanted more leadership from the backcourt and an upgrade at SF.

Anyway, it's all academic. Eddy and Marbury are with us for a couple more years at least. Sadly we get zip from our franchise players in terms of leadership and stability. Our hope is that leadership will be found from guys on the bench, or from the guys we most hope we can upgrade. That doesn't make me feel set.
bobs3304
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4/22/2007  10:04 PM
^ Well said, I agree about Marbury and Curry ala leadership, but I also think they ARE our franchise players going into the future, whether we're "set" on it or not.


What we need is more Stackhouses and Finleys and Horrys. Instead of stockpiling draft picks and young talent, we need some veteran leadership b/c Dolan has made it indirectly clear the playoffs is where we're "headed", and you can't win without heady players... (which is why we suck at turnovers and execution).


Talent (Marbury and Curry) can only take you so far.

You need good coaching and fundamentals...



[Edited by - bobs3304 on 04-22-2007 10:09 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
EnySpree
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4/23/2007  1:37 AM
So what would it take for anything on the knicks roster to be "set"?

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nixluva
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4/23/2007  2:34 AM
Curry is just now starting to come into his own, but that's not enough for some of us. We have to have the guy at All Star level immediately or he's a BUM. This kind of thinking is so twisted and out of whack that it defies logic. It's not about how many years he's been in the league, everyone has their own rate of development and he's just taken longer than some, but he's getting there. He's shown some growth even if it's been mostly on the offensive side. The level that he's started to show this year was that he can be among the best offensively. So let's give him a chance to keep working on his game. GEEZ! You would think he's over the hill and with no shot at improving rather than a guy that's got years left in his career.

The same goes for MANY of our young players. We have ZERO patience around here for guys that we know have talent but haven't yet put it all together. Not everyone is a star from day one. We may already have the players we need on this team but if we don't show any patience we'll never know. Even when our own players show some growth, it's STILL not enough for some of us.

Solace
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4/23/2007  8:43 AM
Nix, question for you. If you play the lottery and you get 4 out of 6 numbers, do you throw a party because you're "close enough"??

No offense to anyone, but the Knicks fans who keep encouraging this team are as soft as the team they're rooting for. Soft in that the standards are so low that anyone with a brain is embarassed to be in the discussion. The fact that we can be told by people like you to our faces that 33 wins is progress and that we're blind and that we need to be patient is a BLATANT lie, which I don't think YOU really believe either. I just hope after another season of embarassment, the fans will finally DEMAND a quality product, which this isn't. But I've already seen posts where Nix and others have already made excuses for NEXT season, which hasn't even started yet. Embarassing and pathetic.

[Edited by - Solace on Apr 23 2007 08:52 AM]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
bigbeast
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4/23/2007  9:13 AM
I dont see the backcourt as being set. Marb is 30-31 yrs old with tons of milage on his legs. He has 2 yrs left on his contract and I dont factor him into the future of this team.

Craw is a streak shooter who shoots you out of more games than he shoots you in and is a poor defender and would be best served as a 6th man IMO. So that leaves a big hole at the starting 2 guard position not to mention future pg. Can Mardy be our pg of the future? To early to tell. But right now, he looks like a back-up to me. So moving forward, I would say our reserve guards are set, but we need a legit starting backcourt for the future.

Q is power 2 guard who cant create off the dribble when hes in the backcourt and lacks the length to guard the true SF of the leauge. He does a good job on the glass for his size, but he's pretty much one deminsional on the offensive side of the ball. Unless Balk develops into some kind of threat offensively, he's more a spark off the bench. That means we are still in need of a legit SF.

Other than Curry and maybe Lee, this team mostly consists of role/bench players or mediocre starters.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
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