Posted by Bippity10:

I think spending 4 years in college and having a college coach beat you up for 4 years taught players to respect coach's and realizes they are on the same page and want to win together. They learn that it isn't the system that wins, it isn't the coach that wins, its' the team that wins. They come to the pros and can then fit in any stystem and can adapt to any role or any adversity.

Nowadays kids are given everything in highschool and then go to the pros expecting it again. As soon as a coach won't give them everything they rebel and thus don't become well rounded and can only play in one type of system. Then we fire the coach and start giving more to the players. Then we end up with guys complaining about the system of a hall of fame coach that was in the finals the past two years and we have fans backing them up saying that the league has past by a coach who was just in the finals the year before. The truth is Europe is slowly passing us by because of this individualistic approach.

Vinnie Johnson was one of the most dominant scorers of his time, yet he was forced to play 6th man. never once complained. Just helped his team win.

Bip you say this season has to do as much to do with the coach as it has to do with the players...But every now and then you come up with these post saying it's the players not respecting the coach...Well what is it going to be?...Bip If your coach learned to keep his big mouth shut, we would actaully see how many people buy into what he is trying to teach...Lets not go over the fact he never, never had a consistant lineup or gave the team a chance to be cohesive...Bip I don't think many here really understand how important it is for 5-8 guy really get to know each other on the court...They think it means nothing...So Bip, coming from a coaching background...explain to your fellow posters that the Knicks not having a constant rotation will essentailly guarantee them a losing season...I don't care if everyone bought into what Larry was selling...They still would lose without a rotation...So for the life of me...How is it possible you get on your soap box to blame the players every chance you get??



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-07-2006 12:24 PM]

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by Bippity10:

I think spending 4 years in college and having a college coach beat you up for 4 years taught players to respect coach's and realizes they are on the same page and want to win together. They learn that it isn't the system that wins, it isn't the coach that wins, its' the team that wins. They come to the pros and can then fit in any stystem and can adapt to any role or any adversity.

Nowadays kids are given everything in highschool and then go to the pros expecting it again. As soon as a coach won't give them everything they rebel and thus don't become well rounded and can only play in one type of system. Then we fire the coach and start giving more to the players. Then we end up with guys complaining about the system of a hall of fame coach that was in the finals the past two years and we have fans backing them up saying that the league has past by a coach who was just in the finals the year before. The truth is Europe is slowly passing us by because of this individualistic approach.

Vinnie Johnson was one of the most dominant scorers of his time, yet he was forced to play 6th man. never once complained. Just helped his team win.

Bip you say this season has to do as much to do with the coach as it has to do with the players...But every now and then you come up with these post saying it's the players not respecting the coach...Well what is it going to be?...Bip If your coach learned to keep his big mouth shut, we would actaully see how many people by into what he is trying to teach...Lets not go over the fact he never, never had a consistant lineup or gave the team a chance to be cohesive...Bip I don't think many here really understand how important it is for 5-8 guy really get to know each other on the court...They think it means nothing...So Bip, coming from a coaching background...explain to your fellow posters that the Knicks not having a constant rotation will essentailly guarantee them a losing season...I don't care if everyone bought into what Larry was selling...They still would lose without a rotation...So for the life of me...How is it possible you get on your soap box to blame the players every chance you get??

Lenny, Chaney, Herb all kept quiet and never kicked a player in the ass to motivate. Where did it get them?

Granted these guys didn't have a team as talented as this, but these guys also weren't guys that made players better. LB makes individual players better in the context of the team. The three I just mentioned were just straight coaches. That is why when he is regarded as one of the best TEACHING coaches. Maybe these guys just don't want to learn??

^Short and sweet Nalod...I love it.....you are absolutely right.

What was the very first thing that Larry said in November? If I remember, it was Steph who said he wasn't going to change....

I'm not sure how I can make my position more clear. Most people understand my position is as consistent as it comes. I've been saying the same things for 7 years. But I'm sure you will keep asking me to clarify.

Posted by Bippity10:

Again I will place all the blame on LB for this record this season if that makes you happy. His lack of a rotation has definitely led to this instability. I agree 100%. And if you need to hear that from me to feel better about yourself, there you go.

But what I'm telling you is that it is not about this season. Who cares if we won 20 games or 35 games. Either way this roster is poorly constructed and there is a history of laziness and insubordination with almost every player on this roster. I listened to islesfan preach it before the season. Although I don't agree with his vehemence I agreed 100% with his assessment of this roster. It's not a winning roster. Winning 40 games does not excite me. I want a roster capable of winning a title. I know that takes a good coach(doesn't have to be Red Auerbach), just a good coach that has proven he can win. We have that. Then a GM that can get on the same page as him to bring him his type of players. Taht's up in the air. Then we go out and get the players that give us teh best chance to win a title. I know that if a team quits at any point, regardless of the treatment they've gotten or what they've gone through, that tells me that they probably don't have the mental fortitude to play and win a tittle in NY. I don't hate them for that. But I don't want to go out and get a coach that will appease them just so we can be a mediocre team hoping to make a run from the 6-8 seeds.

Bip this is where I completely disagree with all you guys that frown at 35-40 wins...Here is my point...35 wins with Herb Williams and 35 wins with Larry Brown ar two completely different things...With Larry you know it's with you team playing D and moving the ball around and you are building something..Not only does it mean you are building a foundation, the players feel good about themselves and will work harder to get to the next level...They will tend to believe more what the coach is bringing to the table...I really don't understand why it's so hard to see this...These guys would be breaking the necks trying to get to the playoffs and with a coach like Brown, they know sky is the limit because he has been there already....If you are at 20 wins and no hope of the playoffs, it only natural to question what the guy at the helm is doing...everyone would do it...

About the poorly constructed roster...How is it possible to put a Championship roster together in 2 years??? How is it possible...Detriot took five years to finally get a good team together...How can we or Larry be all over Isiah for not having a wonderfully constructed team in 2 years???..Do you really remember Howard Eisley starting a point guard?? Do you?....It's a process...Rome was not built in a day....Forget that the Knicks were in salary cap hell.....Please expalin coach, How is it possible????

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-07-2006 1:00 PM]

But what I'm telling you is that it is not about this season. Who cares if we won 20 games or 35 games. Either way this roster is poorly constructed and there is a history of laziness and insubordination with almost every player on this roster. I listened to islesfan preach it before the season. Although I don't agree with his vehemence I agreed 100% with his assessment of this roster. It's not a winning roster. Winning 40 games does not excite me. I want a roster capable of winning a title.

How will you know when there is a roster in place capable of winning a title? WHne they win 60 games? A team needs to improve steadily. The Knicks aint gettin' to 56 wins next year unless David Robinson 2 shows up. If the Knicks win 35-40 games next year everybody will be gushing and sh!tting themselves with praise for Brown for improving the team and bringing hope, when in fact this year's team is totally different from last year's squad, and next year's team will be greatly different from this years.

When the roster goes through an upheaval every off-season, every year stands alone.

But let's talk about the future: Yo, Knicks 2012, that squad is no joke, I tell ya!

Hey Bips, I know you say (Now) that LB has not done a good job as far as wining games. What has he done a good job at? That's what I'd like to know.

oohah

A good job of exposing a team of quitters, and I don't even think he did it on purpose. I think it was just a lucky result. Now we aren't mesmerized by a 30 win roster and have Isiah thinking he can go out and sign another overpaid underachieving player to put us over the top. Now for the first time in 7 years you are actually hearing our GM and coach and even owner, talking about building something. It's tough to see, but it's there. The organization is finally starting to talk about making changes, and it took a disaster to make it happen.

Coach's aren't going to have great years every year. Especially coming off the type of team we've had for the past 7 years. But the worst thing a bad organization can do is fire a coach everytime they don't win because every year you are starting over. Which means every year you are going to lose. Which means every year you are going to fire the next coach. which is exactly what we keep doing. It's insanity.

I siad the same things in defense of Chaney, Lenny and Herb. We make all our coach's impotent by firing them everytime they get started. The players thus know that it doesn't matter if they perform or not because in NY they will just get rid of the coach. How are we missing this pattern?

LB was not hired to lead us to the playoffs this year. He was hired to help change the direction of our miserable, miserable embarrassing team. If that means taking a step back then so be it.

Bip, If you are a coach, you should be the first to say it takes time to build a winning situation...By the way what's wrong with the roster?..I know we need a backup point guard...But whats wrong with it?

Also, when you are over the salary cap, how does one fill their roster with players that everyone wants? How does that happen??





[Edited by - holfresh on 04-07-2006 1:45 PM]

I don't care why Isiah hired LB. I know what LB's goals are and that is to win a title. That is going to take a long-term plan. Step number one find out which players can help you.

Holfresh: What is wrong with the roster?????????? The only thing I can conclude from your postings is that you are perfectly okay with a team of quitters. That there are actually situations where it's okay to quit and just blame someone else. That is the type of roster you want to build around. Let's just get the right coach and they will make us better. If that was the case we should have just hired Donald Duck when we fired Don chaney.

I don't care why Isiah hired LB. I know what LB's goals are and that is to win a title. That is going to take a long-term plan. Step number one find out which players can help you.

Now I've heard it all. It doesn't matter what the guys who hired and paid LB 10,000,000 goals are?

Holy crap, I've said it before, now I'll say it again. LB was the biggest starphuck (So far.) of the IT reign.

I still don't understand how a team can quit on a coach who is not interested in winning games.

And by the way, you were right to defend Wilkens, Chaney, and Williams, because they got everything that they could out of their sh!tty rosters.

Why can't we just say that everybody has been bad and assign a third of the blame to each tier without any qualifications designed to deflect blame from certain parties?

oohah