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KNICKS FANS....YOU"RE BEING PLAYED!!!
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Swishfm3
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3/21/2006  3:57 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Swishfm3:

~TMS

maybe some credit should be given to Coach Bickerstaff and the Bobcats coaching staff since B.Knight was basically a journey man before joining this team and avg nothing close to what he is since his rookie year

maybe...just maybe...Coach Bickerstaff installed a system to fit the players that he has.

share the ball, play defense, play hard...you're right, lb's system doesn't fit with the players we have.


thats what he has been saying...you right. but has he installed a system to actually make it happen?

we all know the Knicks as a whole suck at defense...we don't a Ben Wallace or Bruce Bowen.....so how about Brown whipping something together to help the team and step away from this one on one I keep seeing
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TMS
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3/21/2006  4:02 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:

what?!

you guys are ready to hang him.....the only complaint you guys have with this team is Marbury! lol

you fail to mention anything else....so of course, the impression you are giving is that Marbury is to blame.
but I expect nothing less...straddle the fence....so when everything goes right...you can always say:

"I never said that. what I was trying to say......"


co-mo-dee

give me 1 direct quote of mine where i laid ALL the team's problems on Marbury's shoulders... go ahead... you won't find one... the only things i've ever criticized Marbury for was his lack of leadership, inconsistent defense, setting a bad example for the young kids by getting into conflicts w/the head coach & other teammates... that's referring to what he himself has done as a player since he's been here... the sorry state of the team is an issue that has contributing factors from all parties involved w/the Knicks, ranging from the owner, to the management to the players themselves... Marbury's a contributing factor to that as well.
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Swishfm3
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3/21/2006  4:03 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Swishfm3:

~TMS

maybe some credit should be given to Coach Bickerstaff and the Bobcats coaching staff since B.Knight was basically a journey man before joining this team and avg nothing close to what he is since his rookie year

maybe...just maybe...Coach Bickerstaff installed a system to fit the players that he has.


i'm fine w.giving some credit to Bickerstaff & the system they put in place... but i also give Knight credit for buying into that system & raising the level of his play too... it goes hand in hand... that's what gets to the core of what i'm saying here... i want a PG who will buy into LB's system... Marbury isn't doing that & i don't believe he ever will.


you honestly believe Marbury was not trying in the beginning of the season?

I remember plenty of convos in this forum about Marbury passing the ball to much and NOT taking enough shots. His career avgs are down because of it...

I believe Marbs and the rest of the team did try Browns way and, for whatever reason, it didnt work.

Now Brown needs to come up with a new plan. I don't want him fired...and I don't want him to quit. I want HIM to make this team work. thats HIS job....if thats means benching Marb or reducing his role...so be it. But I think this team, as is, has enough talent to compete.
TMS
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3/21/2006  4:05 PM
i do believe he was trying for a few games... then he gave up & reverted to wanting things his own way just like he always does... it's a pattern w/him... he'll get motivated to play team oriented style ball for a while, then he goes back to wanting more freedom to score & running his style of basketball instead of the coach's... when do you finally stop & say that this is just the way he is? he's not going to change over the long haul... i knew that a while ago.
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TMS
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3/21/2006  4:09 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:
I want HIM to make this team work. thats HIS job....if thats means benching Marb or reducing his role...so be it.

do you really think Marbury's going to be a team player & not cause any problems if he's benched over a long period of time or has his role reduced? he's already griping about the system as it is... you expect LB to change the system & make it work, yet you fail to realize that the reason he can't do what you're asking of him is because his "star player" refuses to buy into the system.
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Bippity10
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3/21/2006  4:10 PM
TMS is correct basketball is 100% habits.

Benching Marbs to get a message across. But unfortunately this team will not win big unless he is on message and playing. We need him(as constructed). That's why people are so flustered. I personally don't blame him for the record. It'=s everyone's fault, but dam-n he is not helping either. He needs to shut up and realize that if he listens to coach he will be looked at in such a different light. His "persecution" is easy to fix. He just refuses to fix it.
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Swishfm3
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3/21/2006  4:24 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Swishfm3:
I want HIM to make this team work. thats HIS job....if thats means benching Marb or reducing his role...so be it.

do you really think Marbury's going to be a team player & not cause any problems if he's benched over a long period of time or has his role reduced? he's already griping about the system as it is... you expect LB to change the system & make it work, yet you fail to realize that the reason he can't do what you're asking of him is because his "star player" refuses to buy into the system.


I think he is and can continue to be one. When I see the Knicks play...I don't see the drama that the papers keep writing. I've seen Frye, jalen and Malik Rose, Crawford, Curry, Lee all laugh with Marbury..I dont see the fights. I believe they are arguements in the locker room...thats avoidable...these guys are stuck together for x amount of months there's bound to be fights.

I think Marbury is frustrated...just like Brown is frustrated. their both wrong...but I side with Marbury because, as a coach who has been around for who knows how many years, Brown should know how to handle every situation that comes his way.

This is Iverson all over again...
TMS
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3/21/2006  4:27 PM
dude, if Marbury was as good a player as Iverson, i'd have much less of a problem w/him, trust me... it's because he thinks he's better than he really is that's a big cause of alot of this impasse w/his head coach imo... he need to buy into a team concept because he's not good enough to carry a team on his own.
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Nalod
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3/21/2006  4:38 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:

~TMS

maybe some credit should be given to Coach Bickerstaff and the Bobcats coaching staff since B.Knight was basically a journey man before joining this team and avg nothing close to what he is since his rookie year

maybe...just maybe...Coach Bickerstaff installed a system to fit the players that he has.

I was at that game in Charlotte.

Staring into Marbs eyes you can see it.

"imagine the plains of the seregetity peacefull blowing of the wind and lions running free. "BORN FREE AS FREE AS THE WINDS BLOW>>>>" , There is marbs envious of the freedom Brev Knight has with his loving coach Bernie just throwing caution to the wind and letting him create so free, so natural........."

" The song blows thru his mind as he dreams of playing in the south, having no pressure what so ever to win, just to be free and score, score at will......and having nobody to stop him......Bzec tells him no, but he scowls back and he cowers. Jumaine Jones calls for the ball wide open, he just scowls and laughs..........Pass the ball to Jake Voskal and he drops it, annother scowl, "I told you so!", pass when tired, but free to create, free to roam the court with nary a care in the world, free to be THE LION KING!"

Then it hits him, he makes 60 mil the next three years and BK will have to fight laughter for that kind of money! He is the Starbury and the bright lights on broadway will be his! If it were not for that Larry guy, drats, his plan spoiled!

"Share the ball, defend, pass, Darn it so complicated! It was so much easier when it was just: Shoot, complain, rest when the other team has the ball, dribble, shoot, and when no shot, pass and get an assist!"

Then he woke up, took the towel off his head, and realized he is Scarface: "everyone look at the bad guy! even when Im good, Im the bad guy!"
Bippity10
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3/21/2006  4:42 PM
Posted by TMS:

dude, if Marbury was as good a player as Iverson, i'd have much less of a problem w/him, trust me... it's because he thinks he's better than he really is that's a big cause of alot of this impasse w/his head coach imo... he need to buy into a team concept because he's not good enough to carry a team on his own.


That's his problem. On the court, outside of his defensive lapses I'm 95% on board with the guy. It's the fact that he can't seem to grasp that it's not about him and that it's about the team. The Piston players biotched about LB after he left and what did Marb's do? Hop on the train.....Enough excuses. If you have never won you should not be questioning anyone but yourself.

I am just flabbergasted that this guy questioned LB. I'm okay with him being po'd about LB talkinga bout him to the media. If he had left it at that I would be on his side. But questioning LB's system?????? Is this guy crazy????? He will either figure it out and be praised for resurrecting his career. Or he will continue to have people make excuses for him and continue to be a loser. It's his choice. Not ours.
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TMS
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3/21/2006  4:45 PM
thank you Bip... i don't agree w/the immature back & forth in the papers either from LB, but his system is a winning system & it's proven... Marbury's done it his way his entire career & it's gotten him nowhere... maybe it's time he started listening to someone else but himself for a change? just a thought.
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Bippity10
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3/21/2006  4:46 PM
The differeence between Marbs and Iverson is Iverson leaves everything on the floor. He disagrees with the coach but when the game starts he does everything asked of him and more. Marbs doesn't and then complains about not being treated fairly. He is not a star. He is a talented player that can lead a team far........If he realizes it before it's too late.
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holfresh
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3/21/2006  5:22 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:

Breven doesn't play D...He better pass the ball because he can't score....

since when is getting over 2 steals per game considered not playing any defense?


It doesn't translate..What it means is that you gamble more...By the way, a Breven Knight led team has a worse record than the Knicks......

[Edited by - holfresh on 03-21-2006 5:38 PM]
TMS
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3/21/2006  5:46 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:

Breven doesn't play D...He better pass the ball because he can't score....

since when is getting over 2 steals per game considered not playing any defense?


It doesn't translate..What it means is that you gamble more...By the way, a Breven Knight led team has a worse record than the Knicks......

[Edited by - holfresh on 03-21-2006 5:38 PM]


you're kidding me right? you want to compare the players that Brevin Knight is playing with to the talent that Marbury has to work with? aside from Gerald Wallace, what player on that Bobcats team is better than what the Knicks have? Okafor's been out all year... o right, i forgot, they have Primoz Brezec & Lonny Baxter.

[Edited by - TMS on 03-21-2006 5:47 PM]
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nykshaknbake
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3/21/2006  5:48 PM
Nail on the head. You'll never see a Craw vs Gordon, Q vs G Wallace or anything like that from any of these guys on any other player but Marbs.
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by rvhoss:

It's one thing to hope he plays tough defense, it's another to say that the knicks have a crappy record solely because marbs isn't as good as kidd.

& when did anyone on this board say it was all Marb's fault? all i hear are you Marbury supporters constantly bringing that point up out of nowhere... no one here has ever blamed the disaster of a season all on Marbury... we're looking towards the future & ways of improving this team.
LOL.. just wrote the exact same thing. These guys are nuts... its like arguing with women. Tell a woman you dont want to hang out with her girlfiend. They hear you hate their girlfriend. There is a difference.


tell me about it dude... they keep harping on the same crap about us hating on Marbury & blaming all the team's woes on him & keep missing the points we're trying to make... it's actually pretty funny at this point.

the funniest was when this guy spouts off about Marbury's assist totals, & i point out that Brevin Knight's averaging more assists this year than Marbs & he tells me not to look up stats... that was classic.

[Edited by - TMS on 03-21-2006 3:37 PM]


what?!

you guys are ready to hang him.....the only complaint you guys have with this team is Marbury! lol

you fail to mention anything else....so of course, the impression you are giving is that Marbury is to blame.
but I expect nothing less...straddle the fence....so when everything goes right...you can always say:

"I never said that. what I was trying to say......"


co-mo-dee
holfresh
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3/21/2006  6:37 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:

Breven doesn't play D...He better pass the ball because he can't score....

since when is getting over 2 steals per game considered not playing any defense?


It doesn't translate..What it means is that you gamble more...By the way, a Breven Knight led team has a worse record than the Knicks......

[Edited by - holfresh on 03-21-2006 5:38 PM]


you're kidding me right? you want to compare the players that Brevin Knight is playing with to the talent that Marbury has to work with? aside from Gerald Wallace, what player on that Bobcats team is better than what the Knicks have? Okafor's been out all year... o right, i forgot, they have Primoz Brezec & Lonny Baxter.

[Edited by - TMS on 03-21-2006 5:47 PM]


You started the comparison....along with all the other guys who pass first shoot later...I'll leave you with one Breven Knight stat you're sure to love....7 teams, 9 years...
TMS
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3/21/2006  8:06 PM
& here's some stats you're sure to love:

in both of the last 2 seasons, Brevin Knight has averaged more Assists per game than Marbury, all in less minutes per game played & while playing with significantly inferior talent.


& yet another nice stat you're bound to get a kick out of:

Marbury's salary in 2006 = $16,453,125
Brevin's salary in 2006 = $4,600,000

now you tell me who's the better bargain.
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holfresh
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3/21/2006  8:16 PM
Posted by TMS:

& here's some stats you're sure to love:

in both of the last 2 seasons, Brevin Knight has averaged more Assists per game than Marbury, all in less minutes per game played & while playing with significantly inferior talent.


& yet another nice stat you're bound to get a kick out of:

Marbury's salary in 2006 = $16,453,125
Brevin's salary in 2006 = $4,600,000

now you tell me who's the better bargain.



What do I care..It's not my money....
Nalod
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3/21/2006  11:12 PM
Marbury would be judged far less if his salary was 1/4th what it is.

It ain't your money, but it matters.

I wonder if he did not have the security of 60mil coming if he might be a tad more open minded about "things".

the issue with marbs is not stats, its chemistry and fitting in on a constant basis.
TMS
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3/21/2006  11:17 PM
while we're on the subject of salaries, look at all the flack Allan Houston got over the years for being a "1 dimensional player" because of the huge contract he was making... why should Stephon be exempt? Allan was at the very least a leader in the lockerroom, & every one of his teammates respected him... can we say the same about Stephon? that's very debateable.
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