DLeethal wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:Thibs didn’t have a great series, but neither did the players. Leon was great. He provided Thibs with defensive wings, shooters and a roster talented enough to win it all. Unfortunately all the pieces together wasn’t enough to beat the pacers. Still have a chance but the light is fading...

I’m not on this “fire Thibs” stuff. He hasn’t lost the locker room and players respect him. But like the players, Thibs needs to reflect and grow from this experience. I’m not going to react off an emotional loss, But I will guarantee this. Leon is already cooking up a few strategies to improve the team. So I’m happy we have a competent GM who knows how to improve a team incrementally, without gutting the core.

We have a team with potential and a culture is developing. Just need a tuneup / upgrade on the off season. I can’t put my finger on that one upgrade that’s needed, so I’m just going to enjoy the bright lights of the ECF and be grateful we made it to the ELITE 4. Nobody expected us to make it this far.

If it’s another season of running the starters ragged. To the point where the NBA’s Ironman is complaining. We will be lucky to make the ECF again because the competition is going to get tougher. It’s not just Boston in our way now. It’s Indy.

Leon seems to have a hands off approach when it comes to how Thibs runs the team. But I don’t believe he can or should stay silent, if Thibs plans on spending another season ghosting his bench for the most part. No one else in the league does it like that.

I don't think we can predict the competition getting tougher. Yes Indiana will be there, and yes Cleveland will be there. But DET and BOS was not an easy road to the ECF. In fact it could be easier next year where we don't have to play a 60 win team in the second round. Knicks are well positioned to make another run at it again next year, but we have to get better, we aren't going to make the ECF again with double digit 4th quarter comebacks in every win, that's for sure.

I do agree that Leon needs to get more involved if Thibs is gonna stay. Beef up his staff, put some ultimatums on developing a bench.

It's my opinion that they have done this very deliberately already. That's why relatively no Kolek, etc. There are only a few opinions behind not playing the kids.

ToddTT wrote:I vote for continuity. Thibs ain't perfect, but I assume he has the player's respect and trust... for the most part. And that he hasn't lost the locker room.

We mainly need better players, IMO. And better fitting players.

Continuity at head coach and one or more new asssistant coaches. As I said upthread, new players wont matter if Thibs runs another tight rotation next season. Maybe some new assts will help Thibs coach a deeper bench. Make more adjustments in game.

ToddTT wrote:I vote for continuity. Thibs ain't perfect, but I assume he has the player's respect and trust... for the most part. And that he hasn't lost the locker room.

We mainly need better players, IMO. And better fitting players.

So trade for Randle?

GustavBahler wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:Thibs didn’t have a great series, but neither did the players. Leon was great. He provided Thibs with defensive wings, shooters and a roster talented enough to win it all. Unfortunately all the pieces together wasn’t enough to beat the pacers. Still have a chance but the light is fading...

I’m not on this “fire Thibs” stuff. He hasn’t lost the locker room and players respect him. But like the players, Thibs needs to reflect and grow from this experience. I’m not going to react off an emotional loss, But I will guarantee this. Leon is already cooking up a few strategies to improve the team. So I’m happy we have a competent GM who knows how to improve a team incrementally, without gutting the core.

We have a team with potential and a culture is developing. Just need a tuneup / upgrade on the off season. I can’t put my finger on that one upgrade that’s needed, so I’m just going to enjoy the bright lights of the ECF and be grateful we made it to the ELITE 4. Nobody expected us to make it this far.

If it’s another season of running the starters ragged. To the point where the NBA’s Ironman is complaining. We will be lucky to make the ECF again because the competition is going to get tougher. It’s not just Boston in our way now. It’s Indy.

Leon seems to have a hands off approach when it comes to how Thibs runs the team. But I don’t believe he can or should stay silent, if Thibs plans on spending another season ghosting his bench for the most part. No one else in the league does it like that.

I don't think we can predict the competition getting tougher. Yes Indiana will be there, and yes Cleveland will be there. But DET and BOS was not an easy road to the ECF. In fact it could be easier next year where we don't have to play a 60 win team in the second round. Knicks are well positioned to make another run at it again next year, but we have to get better, we aren't going to make the ECF again with double digit 4th quarter comebacks in every win, that's for sure.

I do agree that Leon needs to get more involved if Thibs is gonna stay. Beef up his staff, put some ultimatums on developing a bench.

It will be another year of growing for the Pacers. I doubt the Cavs will be as easy to take out next season, with Atkinson as coach in year 2. Boston might be out of the picture next season, but they’ll be back. Pistons took a big step this season.

I don’t believe we should put the same starting lineup out there again next season. It could be chemistry that needs time to improve, or it’s just a bad fit in the postseason. I’m hoping we have a different starting lineup next season. Move a starter to the bench so we aren’t so top heavy.

And then that new "different starting lineup" will need time to gel/chemistry also?
If there is a trade that Leon can conjure Im sure he'll look at it if it plugs wholes.
But that great unknown most clamping for is not always improvement. Its change with a concept.

as said, we a 51 win team that made the ECF's. Indy was a game under us but surging. I think they finished 30-14 in the last 44 games after an injury laden start to the season.

Our bench did improve with Mitch but reality is he needed a lot to games to get it together even in the playoffs.
Most teams don't go more than 8 deep in playoffs traditionally. This deep team thing may be changing that.

EwingsGlass wrote:Listen, if it’s the players, we’d be saying things like, “man, they aren’t that good but they do put in a lot of effort and the are at least well coached. They just don’t have the ability to compete with [______].” Or “man, that was a great looking play, the players just failed to finish”. Or, “wow, the defense did everything they could to stop that play, you just can’t stop Giannis”

What we are saying are things like “man, I can believe they keep missing their rotations” and “I can’t believe he took that many shots without hitting” and “ I can’t believe how good [___] is playing but he doesn’t seem to get enough minutes].” Or “he pulled him while he was hot?” Or “Is anyone going close out on him”

If we can’t tell if it’s the players or the coach, it’s the coach. Utah traded every star they had and Snyder’s team executed on offense with clean, crisp plays. Our offense is dribble until you get stuck and then look for a pass or force a shot.

I don’t see us being more than a borderline team. In a year where we have draft picks and a deep draft, might as well switch the coach to a more modern style coach that realizes that coaching (and not just shot selection) has an impact on eFG. His defense style seems to still be protecting against the 18 foot jumper. You can give that away all day if you are taking the right shots and executing on solid plays.

You aren’t beating a coach like Budenholzer with this coach or personnel. Go get your Wems or Scoot and find a Bud.

As for the FO, biggest question mark for me is the Trevor Keels pick. Only place that makes sense is where someone saw his age and fitness and said, he is innately strong and talented, I can fix his flaws and make a solid player. Not sure I believe, but man, besides coming from Duke I saw no indications this guy belongs in the NBA.

This post aged poorly in context. Shortly after, the team started passing a bit more and went on a pretty solid winning streak. Something clicked.

That said, a lot of the criticisms are relevant again today. Teams go through cycles but they aren’t clicking. The “extra pass” is out of desperation and not teamwork. The guys talk about “sticking together” and not “making the extra pass”. It’s like it’s a band of brothers that watches each other fight individually. I’m hoping for a winning streak that quiets me, but I don’t think our offense is championship caliber. We have elite offensive players. But not an elite offense. Forget ORtg during the season - running scores up on bad teams isn’t what I’m talking about. I really just want to see better passing.

I’m open to legit moves too though. There are enough red flags to warrant it.

There’s plenty of talent in the starting lineup — it’s about staggering and maximizing each player’s strengths. Thibs coaches every game like it’s Game 7, and instead of using the regular season (or even early playoff games) to refine rotations, we end up in a spot like this.

You can get 12–15 solid minutes from Shamet, Wright, and Precious — especially when they’re paired with OG and KAT.

Possible rotations:
• Brunson, Wright, Bridges, OG, Mitch
• McBride, Shamet, Bridges, Precious, KAT
• Hart, Brunson, OG, McBride, Mitch
• Brunson, Shamet, Bridges, OG, Precious
• Bridges, McBride, Shamet, Precious, KAT

Payne should never have seen the floor — we should’ve handled the Pistons in 5. We should be up in this series. Not taking control of Game 1, starting Payne in the 4th in Game 2, and the constant overuse of Hart — it’s on the coaching.

I’m not even a big Bridges guy, but he can run an offense when needed — I don’t want to hear about the bench. There was no reason to overplay everyone last postseason and absolutely no reason to wait until Game 3 of the Eastern Conference Finals to adjust.

And when was the last hard foul this team committed?