Nalod wrote:

markvmc wrote:I'm a bit confused here. How does a team that has lost one series in nigh on 4 years get to be not great?

Your not confused, the legions of blogs, threads and tweets measuring the body of work from past great teams and the nature of the "superfriends" in fabricating their own team puts ones opinion above another?

4 straight finals is nothing unless you win them.

Nalod thinks Heat are not so great but Lebron is and is carrying them on his back. Wade is stepping up when needed. Its not an organic flowing team SAS or other great teams of the past.

Lebron is on Mount Rushmore but until his career is finished can one really measure what he is doing. This is not college ball when "Making the final four" is a big deal. Lose in the finals is rarely given much cred.

I'm not sure if this is how you feel, but I don't think its fair to knock a player down a few pegs on the 'best player to ever play the game' list just because his team lost in the finals. Seems to be too much in a vacuum. What were the other factors? Opposition? etc...

Vmart wrote:They don't get dirtier than the Heat. Wade with kick upside George's head and now Chalmers with the elbow that just changed the complexion of the game. No one says anything but I truly believe that Wade purposely put a knee in the back of George's head.

Or FOR SURE. Wade has been the reigning sneakiest dirty player in the league forever...Not only do the refs look the other way he rarely ever gets called out on what his fouls really are....Ugh.

H1AND1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:They don't get dirtier than the Heat. Wade with kick upside George's head and now Chalmers with the elbow that just changed the complexion of the game. No one says anything but I truly believe that Wade purposely put a knee in the back of George's head.

Or FOR SURE. Wade has been the reigning sneakiest dirty player in the league forever...Not only do the refs look the other way he rarely ever gets called out on what his fouls really are....Ugh.

ha ha he's such a swine

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2090514-dwyane-wade-draws-foul-on-manu-ginobili-after-pretending-to-get-hit-in-face

sidsanders wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:

markvmc wrote:I'm a bit confused here. How does a team that has lost one series in nigh on 4 years get to be not great?

Your not confused, the legions of blogs, threads and tweets measuring the body of work from past great teams and the nature of the "superfriends" in fabricating their own team puts ones opinion above another?

4 straight finals is nothing unless you win them.

Nalod thinks Heat are not so great but Lebron is and is carrying them on his back. Wade is stepping up when needed. Its not an organic flowing team SAS or other great teams of the past.

Lebron is on Mount Rushmore but until his career is finished can one really measure what he is doing. This is not college ball when "Making the final four" is a big deal. Lose in the finals is rarely given much cred.

I'm not sure if this is how you feel, but I don't think its fair to knock a player down a few pegs on the 'best player to ever play the game' list just because his team lost in the finals. Seems to be too much in a vacuum. What were the other factors? Opposition? etc...

It reminds me of Wilt. "He" lost to the Celtics many times and was the greatest player of his generation but the Celtics were often the better team. "Jordan never lost in the finals".......We hear that a lot, but at the same age he had been to just three while this is lebrons 5th.

Maybe this golden standard of Jordan is the baseline to which all are compared to. At 6-8 260 and an effective court distributor This guy is just amazing!

MOre than Jordan? Lets let his career pan out before we start that.

jordan went to college (3 years) and missed most of his 2nd season to injury and a mid career retirement later, lebron was a hs'er so age comparisons are not equal.

THat speaks to Lebrons strength. Dude was NBA ready at 18.

Lebron don't break legs. Jordan and LEbron are amazingly durable.

Lebron was "Choking" in the finals at an earlier age. BUt still was in the finals.

Lebron's teams are inferior to Jordans Bulls.

Wilt was unstoppable until he ran into the Celtics.

If Heat win, beating SAS two years in a row, a team that had the best record and a long track record of greatness, does that give "Ali his Frazier"? On the other hand have we simply made Jordan the golden standard and all others before or after don't measure?

I say lets wait until lebron retires before we are done. I think we might look at Lebrons series losses with more cred when we realize his teams don't get there without him.

Basketball is a team game.

Nalod wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:

markvmc wrote:I'm a bit confused here. How does a team that has lost one series in nigh on 4 years get to be not great?

Your not confused, the legions of blogs, threads and tweets measuring the body of work from past great teams and the nature of the "superfriends" in fabricating their own team puts ones opinion above another?

4 straight finals is nothing unless you win them.

Nalod thinks Heat are not so great but Lebron is and is carrying them on his back. Wade is stepping up when needed. Its not an organic flowing team SAS or other great teams of the past.

Lebron is on Mount Rushmore but until his career is finished can one really measure what he is doing. This is not college ball when "Making the final four" is a big deal. Lose in the finals is rarely given much cred.

I'm not sure if this is how you feel, but I don't think its fair to knock a player down a few pegs on the 'best player to ever play the game' list just because his team lost in the finals. Seems to be too much in a vacuum. What were the other factors? Opposition? etc...

It reminds me of Wilt. "He" lost to the Celtics many times and was the greatest player of his generation but the Celtics were often the better team. "Jordan never lost in the finals".......We hear that a lot, but at the same age he had been to just three while this is lebrons 5th.

Maybe this golden standard of Jordan is the baseline to which all are compared to. At 6-8 260 and an effective court distributor This guy is just amazing!

MOre than Jordan? Lets let his career pan out before we start that.

jordan went to college (3 years) and missed most of his 2nd season to injury and a mid career retirement later, lebron was a hs'er so age comparisons are not equal.

THat speaks to Lebrons strength. Dude was NBA ready at 18.

Lebron don't break legs. Jordan and LEbron are amazingly durable.

Lebron was "Choking" in the finals at an earlier age. BUt still was in the finals.

Lebron's teams are inferior to Jordans Bulls.

Wilt was unstoppable until he ran into the Celtics.

If Heat win, beating SAS two years in a row, a team that had the best record and a long track record of greatness, does that give "Ali his Frazier"? On the other hand have we simply made Jordan the golden standard and all others before or after don't measure?

I say lets wait until lebron retires before we are done. I think we might look at Lebrons series losses with more cred when we realize his teams don't get there without him.

Basketball is a team game.

Lebron flops. MJ don't flop; MJ cuts your heart out to win.
Lebron overheats, cramps up, takes himself out and loses. MJ plays with 104 degree temperature and wins.
These things will not be erased, no matter what LeQ does with the rest of his career.

Wilt was unstoppable until he met Russell. Wilt would score a hundred points, but the opposition would score 140 points in that game.

The NBA threw everything at MJ. Blazers, Utah, Lakers, Suns. It didn't matter. The standard stands.

Bulls win nothing without MJ.
Celtics couldn't make the playoffs before Russell came and took them all the way.

With rare exceptions, your basketball team is only as good as your star.

Nalod wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:

markvmc wrote:I'm a bit confused here. How does a team that has lost one series in nigh on 4 years get to be not great?

Your not confused, the legions of blogs, threads and tweets measuring the body of work from past great teams and the nature of the "superfriends" in fabricating their own team puts ones opinion above another?

4 straight finals is nothing unless you win them.

Nalod thinks Heat are not so great but Lebron is and is carrying them on his back. Wade is stepping up when needed. Its not an organic flowing team SAS or other great teams of the past.

Lebron is on Mount Rushmore but until his career is finished can one really measure what he is doing. This is not college ball when "Making the final four" is a big deal. Lose in the finals is rarely given much cred.

I'm not sure if this is how you feel, but I don't think its fair to knock a player down a few pegs on the 'best player to ever play the game' list just because his team lost in the finals. Seems to be too much in a vacuum. What were the other factors? Opposition? etc...

It reminds me of Wilt. "He" lost to the Celtics many times and was the greatest player of his generation but the Celtics were often the better team. "Jordan never lost in the finals".......We hear that a lot, but at the same age he had been to just three while this is lebrons 5th.

Maybe this golden standard of Jordan is the baseline to which all are compared to. At 6-8 260 and an effective court distributor This guy is just amazing!

MOre than Jordan? Lets let his career pan out before we start that.

jordan went to college (3 years) and missed most of his 2nd season to injury and a mid career retirement later, lebron was a hs'er so age comparisons are not equal.

THat speaks to Lebrons strength. Dude was NBA ready at 18.

Lebron don't break legs. Jordan and LEbron are amazingly durable.

Lebron was "Choking" in the finals at an earlier age. BUt still was in the finals.

Lebron's teams are inferior to Jordans Bulls.

Wilt was unstoppable until he ran into the Celtics.

If Heat win, beating SAS two years in a row, a team that had the best record and a long track record of greatness, does that give "Ali his Frazier"? On the other hand have we simply made Jordan the golden standard and all others before or after don't measure?

I say lets wait until lebron retires before we are done. I think we might look at Lebrons series losses with more cred when we realize his teams don't get there without him.

Basketball is a team game.

the league is inferior now in my view, and lebron has no one even close to talent level to go up against. not his prob, though as of now, there really isnt that many truly prime elites that the jordan era had. even after jordan was a multi time mvp and had finally won, folks were still debating a bit about drexler and others. nba seemed to have better talent/teams. rule changes to take out the physical aspects... zone defense allowed.