mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.

Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.

Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.

Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.

Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.

I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.

Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.

Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.

Sorry but you have not provided any evidence that my claim is wrong. You're merely stating opinions but presenting them like facts.

So I ask you to present more to the table than just scoring efficiency

How about win shares and wins produced?

That's where it fails. I buy into these stats at some degree but the fact that it gives the same weight to last three shots of a game as it does to the first three shots of a game and that it does not/cannot account for team chemistry makes this fail in this scenario (IMHO).

This is the 80-20 rule where it is in the 20. Eye test wins out for kobe.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.

Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.

Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.

Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.

Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.

I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.

Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.

Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.

Sorry but you have not provided any evidence that my claim is wrong. You're merely stating opinions but presenting them like facts.

So I ask you to present more to the table than just scoring efficiency

How about win shares and wins produced?

That's where it fails. I buy into these stats at some degree but the fact that it gives the same weight to last three shots of a game as it does to the first three shots of a game and that it does not/cannot account for team chemistry makes this fail in this scenario (IMHO).

This is the 80-20 rule where it is in the 20. Eye test wins out for kobe.

Or perhaps your view that 2 points later in the game count more than 2 points earlier in the game is flawed. Anyway, are you saying you give 80% weight to the stats and 20% to your personal observations (or the reverse)? If so, I would not object at all. It doesn't sound like you're giving the stats 80% of the weight in your evaluation of Kobe though.

If the stats are correct 80 percent of the time and incorrect 20 percent of the time, then kobe is part of the 20 percent.

As far as valuing the points, yes. I think the a last second basket should have a higher value than the first shot of the game. The fact that WS and WP don't account for clutch stats makes it flawed in this area.

A team can overcome a missed shot in the first quarter tie game however may not have the ability or opportunity to overcome a last second miss.

1) He's a legend. Pretty much everybody loves him, and even those who don't can't just look past his greatness. Once you're branded as "the best" or "one of the best" it's a hard label to get rid of regardless of your performance.

2) His personal numbers are phenomenal, in a way it feels like injustice NOT placing him so high up the rankings due to him playing so well, even if the Lakers are struggling. Scoring leader with an efficient FG % and good assist/rebound numbers has to account for something after all.

And I mean it's not like he's going to win the MVP, unless something incredibile happens and the Lakers start raping the league everybody knows he's not going to be #1, but due to his good play to some it feels "right" that he's atleast up there, even though it's apparent he isn't going to win the MVP.

That being said I'm somewhere in between. I'm aware that the player's team's record is the most important thing, however I also feel that he should be on the list simply because he himself is so great. I'd never give him a chance of actually winning it but to not mention him simply because the Lakers are underwhelming doesn't feel right either.

yellowboy90 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.

Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.

Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.

Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.

Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.

I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.

Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.

Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.

Sorry but you have not provided any evidence that my claim is wrong. You're merely stating opinions but presenting them like facts.

So I ask you to present more to the table than just scoring efficiency

How about win shares and wins produced?

That's where it fails. I buy into these stats at some degree but the fact that it gives the same weight to last three shots of a game as it does to the first three shots of a game and that it does not/cannot account for team chemistry makes this fail in this scenario (IMHO).

This is the 80-20 rule where it is in the 20. Eye test wins out for kobe.

Or perhaps your view that 2 points later in the game count more than 2 points earlier in the game is flawed. Anyway, are you saying you give 80% weight to the stats and 20% to your personal observations (or the reverse)? If so, I would not object at all. It doesn't sound like you're giving the stats 80% of the weight in your evaluation of Kobe though.

If the stats are correct 80 percent of the time and incorrect 20 percent of the time, then kobe is part of the 20 percent.

As far as valuing the points, yes. I think the a last second basket should have a higher value than the first shot of the game. The fact that WS and WP don't account for clutch stats makes it flawed in this area.

A team can overcome a missed shot in the first quarter tie game however may not have the ability or opportunity to overcome a last second miss.

Well if you go by WP you would probably have an MVP race of

Chris Paul
Tyson Chandler
Anderson Varejao
Jason Kidd
Kevin Gurant
Lebron James

in that order based on players who play significant minutes.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.

Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.

Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.

Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.

Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.

I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.

Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.

Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.

Sorry but you have not provided any evidence that my claim is wrong. You're merely stating opinions but presenting them like facts.

So I ask you to present more to the table than just scoring efficiency

How about win shares and wins produced?

That's where it fails. I buy into these stats at some degree but the fact that it gives the same weight to last three shots of a game as it does to the first three shots of a game and that it does not/cannot account for team chemistry makes this fail in this scenario (IMHO).

This is the 80-20 rule where it is in the 20. Eye test wins out for kobe.

Or perhaps your view that 2 points later in the game count more than 2 points earlier in the game is flawed. Anyway, are you saying you give 80% weight to the stats and 20% to your personal observations (or the reverse)? If so, I would not object at all. It doesn't sound like you're giving the stats 80% of the weight in your evaluation of Kobe though.

If the stats are correct 80 percent of the time and incorrect 20 percent of the time, then kobe is part of the 20 percent.

As far as valuing the points, yes. I think the a last second basket should have a higher value than the first shot of the game. The fact that WS and WP don't account for clutch stats makes it flawed in this area.

A team can overcome a missed shot in the first quarter tie game however may not have the ability or opportunity to overcome a last second miss.

You're talking about two different things: giving 80% weight to the stats (which I would accept) and using the stats 80% of the time.
If you're basically saying you'll use the stats whenever they pass your eye test (which you say is 80% of the time) and ignore them when they don't, then you are not really using the stats after all. You're just doing an eye test and then pretending to give it more objectivity by backing it up with stats when convenient.
Although other factors may be at work, I suspect there is a recency effect in your evaluation of Kobe - you're giving disproportionate weight to recent games when evaluating his entire season. His numbers look good now but he played outstanding basketball earlier in the season when they didn't have Nash and Gasol and Dwight nothing special.

You are making baseless assumptions about my eye tests without supplying any statistics to assist your theory.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.

Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.

Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.

Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.

Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.

I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.

Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.

Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.

Sorry but you have not provided any evidence that my claim is wrong. You're merely stating opinions but presenting them like facts.

So I ask you to present more to the table than just scoring efficiency

How about win shares and wins produced?

That's where it fails. I buy into these stats at some degree but the fact that it gives the same weight to last three shots of a game as it does to the first three shots of a game and that it does not/cannot account for team chemistry makes this fail in this scenario (IMHO).

This is the 80-20 rule where it is in the 20. Eye test wins out for kobe.

Or perhaps your view that 2 points later in the game count more than 2 points earlier in the game is flawed. Anyway, are you saying you give 80% weight to the stats and 20% to your personal observations (or the reverse)? If so, I would not object at all. It doesn't sound like you're giving the stats 80% of the weight in your evaluation of Kobe though.

If the stats are correct 80 percent of the time and incorrect 20 percent of the time, then kobe is part of the 20 percent.

As far as valuing the points, yes. I think the a last second basket should have a higher value than the first shot of the game. The fact that WS and WP don't account for clutch stats makes it flawed in this area.

A team can overcome a missed shot in the first quarter tie game however may not have the ability or opportunity to overcome a last second miss.

You're talking about two different things: giving 80% weight to the stats (which I would accept) and using the stats 80% of the time.
If you're basically saying you'll use the stats whenever they pass your eye test (which you say is 80% of the time) and ignore them when they don't, then you are not really using the stats after all. You're just doing an eye test and then pretending to give it more objectivity by backing it up with stats when convenient.
Although other factors may be at work, I suspect there is a recency effect in your evaluation of Kobe - you're giving disproportionate weight to recent games when evaluating his entire season. His numbers look good now but he played outstanding basketball earlier in the season when they didn't have Nash and Gasol and Dwight nothing special.

You are making baseless assumptions about my eye tests without supplying any statistics to assist your theory.

I said "I suspect"; I didn't say "I know."

That is why I said "assumptions".

Do you have any data to support what you "suspect"?

See how that type of argument comes off? We all assume and have opinions.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.

Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.

Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.

Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.

Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.

I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.

Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.

Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.

Sorry but you have not provided any evidence that my claim is wrong. You're merely stating opinions but presenting them like facts.

So I ask you to present more to the table than just scoring efficiency

How about win shares and wins produced?

That's where it fails. I buy into these stats at some degree but the fact that it gives the same weight to last three shots of a game as it does to the first three shots of a game and that it does not/cannot account for team chemistry makes this fail in this scenario (IMHO).

This is the 80-20 rule where it is in the 20. Eye test wins out for kobe.

Or perhaps your view that 2 points later in the game count more than 2 points earlier in the game is flawed. Anyway, are you saying you give 80% weight to the stats and 20% to your personal observations (or the reverse)? If so, I would not object at all. It doesn't sound like you're giving the stats 80% of the weight in your evaluation of Kobe though.

If the stats are correct 80 percent of the time and incorrect 20 percent of the time, then kobe is part of the 20 percent.

As far as valuing the points, yes. I think the a last second basket should have a higher value than the first shot of the game. The fact that WS and WP don't account for clutch stats makes it flawed in this area.

A team can overcome a missed shot in the first quarter tie game however may not have the ability or opportunity to overcome a last second miss.

You're talking about two different things: giving 80% weight to the stats (which I would accept) and using the stats 80% of the time.
If you're basically saying you'll use the stats whenever they pass your eye test (which you say is 80% of the time) and ignore them when they don't, then you are not really using the stats after all. You're just doing an eye test and then pretending to give it more objectivity by backing it up with stats when convenient.
Although other factors may be at work, I suspect there is a recency effect in your evaluation of Kobe - you're giving disproportionate weight to recent games when evaluating his entire season. His numbers look good now but he played outstanding basketball earlier in the season when they didn't have Nash and Gasol and Dwight nothing special.

You are making baseless assumptions about my eye tests without supplying any statistics to assist your theory.

I said "I suspect"; I didn't say "I know."

That is why I said "assumptions".

Do you have any data to support what you "suspect"?

See how that type of argument comes off? We all assume and have opinions.

Well I added a little more after you quoted me. I think you are confused about the definition of "suspect" if you are asking for data.

You think that I am confused? Uh ... ok.

science calls for statistics and not to randomly suspect.

You sound really silly with these games.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.

Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.

Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.

Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.

Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.

I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.

Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.

Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.

Sorry but you have not provided any evidence that my claim is wrong. You're merely stating opinions but presenting them like facts.

So I ask you to present more to the table than just scoring efficiency

How about win shares and wins produced?

That's where it fails. I buy into these stats at some degree but the fact that it gives the same weight to last three shots of a game as it does to the first three shots of a game and that it does not/cannot account for team chemistry makes this fail in this scenario (IMHO).

This is the 80-20 rule where it is in the 20. Eye test wins out for kobe.

Or perhaps your view that 2 points later in the game count more than 2 points earlier in the game is flawed. Anyway, are you saying you give 80% weight to the stats and 20% to your personal observations (or the reverse)? If so, I would not object at all. It doesn't sound like you're giving the stats 80% of the weight in your evaluation of Kobe though.

If the stats are correct 80 percent of the time and incorrect 20 percent of the time, then kobe is part of the 20 percent.

As far as valuing the points, yes. I think the a last second basket should have a higher value than the first shot of the game. The fact that WS and WP don't account for clutch stats makes it flawed in this area.

A team can overcome a missed shot in the first quarter tie game however may not have the ability or opportunity to overcome a last second miss.

You're talking about two different things: giving 80% weight to the stats (which I would accept) and using the stats 80% of the time.
If you're basically saying you'll use the stats whenever they pass your eye test (which you say is 80% of the time) and ignore them when they don't, then you are not really using the stats after all. You're just doing an eye test and then pretending to give it more objectivity by backing it up with stats when convenient.
Although other factors may be at work, I suspect there is a recency effect in your evaluation of Kobe - you're giving disproportionate weight to recent games when evaluating his entire season. His numbers look good now but he played outstanding basketball earlier in the season when they didn't have Nash and Gasol and Dwight nothing special.

You are making baseless assumptions about my eye tests without supplying any statistics to assist your theory.

I said "I suspect"; I didn't say "I know."

That is why I said "assumptions".

Do you have any data to support what you "suspect"?

See how that type of argument comes off? We all assume and have opinions.

Well I added a little more after you quoted me. I think you are confused about the definition of "suspect" if you are asking for data.

You think that I am confused? Uh ... ok.

science calls for statistics and not to randomly suspect.

You sound really silly with these games.

I never claimed my suspicion was scientific. Then it wouldn't be a suspicion!

Wow is this dumb. Okay ... you win.

Bonn1997 wrote:Of course I do!

well aren't you a special little snowflake :D
can we get back on topic please?

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.

Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.

Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.

Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.

Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.

I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.

Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.

Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.

Sorry but you have not provided any evidence that my claim is wrong. You're merely stating opinions but presenting them like facts.

So I ask you to present more to the table than just scoring efficiency

How about win shares and wins produced?

Pretty weak since different sites calculate this differently and on BBR.com he's not good in regards to DWS.