Chandler wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

martin wrote:Do people in our country think that having a better maternity plan for new parents means communism? That having an upgraded subway system means it’s communism?

Feeding kids at school is communism? Taking out the profit in health care is communism?

All of those things are bad for our country and anyone who thinks having a better country is communism?

Fuck that

These clowns think social security is communism and want to get rid of it.

are you guys really debating whether Mandami is communist? "warmth of collectivism." It's not like he's hiding this.

I think the issue is the ideas all sound great on paper, and have for a long time, in a lot of places. Yet no one seems to be able to make it work even when their lives depended on it. And certainly not in any sustainable way. If you have a model socialist or communist country I'm all ears. Would be interested in what country communist or otherwise you'd like to emulate.

Compare Poland and Venezuela (which has largest proven oil reserves on the planet). One turned primarily capitalist at the same time the other flipped in the other direction. the change in their respective fortunes couldn't be more stark.

Also kind of ironic that people from essentially every socialist or communist country would risk their lives to come here, yet not vice versa? Must all be a bunch of dummies, I guess.

I don't want NY to fail to prove I'm right. But I am a deep skeptic that this will work and be sustainable.

All of Western Europe is “socialist” especially by your standards. They have universal healthcare and public universities that charge little to no tuition. No one in France, the UK, Germany, or the Scandinavian countries would ever trade their socialized government run healthcare system for the absolute wasteful sh tshow we have here with private health insurance oh and their kids don’t graduate college with $100-200k in student loan debt either.

Oh yeah and your example of Poland, I was just there a couple years ago with the Army, they have universal healthcare for their citizens and public universities and a booming economy.

BlueKnickers wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

martin wrote:Do people in our country think that having a better maternity plan for new parents means communism? That having an upgraded subway system means it’s communism?

Feeding kids at school is communism? Taking out the profit in health care is communism?

All of those things are bad for our country and anyone who thinks having a better country is communism?

Fuck that

These clowns think social security is communism and want to get rid of it.

are you guys really debating whether Mandami is communist? "warmth of collectivism." It's not like he's hiding this.

I think the issue is the ideas all sound great on paper, and have for a long time, in a lot of places. Yet no one seems to be able to make it work even when their lives depended on it. And certainly not in any sustainable way. If you have a model socialist or communist country I'm all ears. Would be interested in what country communist or otherwise you'd like to emulate.

Compare Poland and Venezuela (which has largest proven oil reserves on the planet). One turned primarily capitalist at the same time the other flipped in the other direction. the change in their respective fortunes couldn't be more stark.

Also kind of ironic that people from essentially every socialist or communist country would risk their lives to come here, yet not vice versa? Must all be a bunch of dummies, I guess.

I don't want NY to fail to prove I'm right. But I am a deep skeptic that this will work and be sustainable.

You speak of socialism as if it is the same thing as communism. They are not remotely similar.

You called the mayor of NY a communist. Yeah, he's Stalin and Mao redux.

Then you effectively compare his agenda to addressing housing costs or providing daycare for single parents as equivalent to a Venezuelan dictator? WTF?

It's fine to be skeptical when someone actually tries to use government to assist people for a change because it is a big hill to climb, but to cast aspersions with commie slurs is lazy and inaccurate.

You do realize Marx and Engels identified themselves as socialist? That's the term they used. and many/most communist regimes identify themselves as socialist

the language of "collectivism" (i.e., the term Mamdami uses) is itself part of that Marxist dialectic.

I'm all ears for your explanation about how "[t]hey are not remotely similar"

Also NYC has been run by democrats for decades. Were they not trying "to use government to assist people"? Of course they were. And I'm not blaming anyone for their intentions to try and help people. That's one of the key roles of government. The issue is the method. I haven't seen any evidence where the socialist method has helped in a sustainable way, and seen the evidence to the contrary.

If there's a socialist approach that has helped people please note it or at least admit you don't know of any.

America or NYC won't change one bit in terms of what type of country or city it is if they make changes that favor policy that help people.

America did not suddenly become a socialist or communist country because we introduced Social Security or free meals at schools for kids in need.

What is the hangup besides screaming about the label nonesense?

newyorknewyork wrote:

martin wrote:Don't really understand why the labels are important and really matter.

America or NYC won't change one bit in terms of what type of country or city it is if they make changes that favor policy that help people.

America did not suddenly become a socialist or communist country because we introduced Social Security or free meals at schools for kids in need.

What is the hangup besides screaming about the label nonesense?

The hang up is because their views are operated in bad faith to begin with. GOP has had the Presidency, House, Senate & Supreme Court now a full year. They can't point to policy from within these "values and ideals" which have benefited the American public as of yet on any real scale. So the finesse is to ignore actually relying on the results of theses "values and ideals" being implemented while holding full power. Divert the attention, thus going on the offensive to attack someone like Mamdani rather than being accountable based on results.

They jumped on the prices and groceries are to high angle when it was convenient to attack Biden/Dems. Which was pretty much a result of unregulated capitalism. But then cry socialism at any attempt to regulate capitalism. Red states have relied heavily on the "socialism" of the Blue states tax revenue while still minimizing the majority of their social programs & safety nets. Corporations and top 1% absolutely love socialism for the rich. Where they get government bailouts, tax breaks, subsidies, etc etc.

Right. Unregulated capitalism means more toxins in our water supply. Or children working.

Mitigating those things are not socialism or communism.

Nor is trying to bring down the cost of groceries. Unless you are on the business end receiving revenue within the food supply chain.

Chandler wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

martin wrote:Do people in our country think that having a better maternity plan for new parents means communism? That having an upgraded subway system means it’s communism?

Feeding kids at school is communism? Taking out the profit in health care is communism?

All of those things are bad for our country and anyone who thinks having a better country is communism?

Fuck that

These clowns think social security is communism and want to get rid of it.

are you guys really debating whether Mandami is communist? "warmth of collectivism." It's not like he's hiding this.

I think the issue is the ideas all sound great on paper, and have for a long time, in a lot of places. Yet no one seems to be able to make it work even when their lives depended on it. And certainly not in any sustainable way. If you have a model socialist or communist country I'm all ears. Would be interested in what country communist or otherwise you'd like to emulate.

Compare Poland and Venezuela (which has largest proven oil reserves on the planet). One turned primarily capitalist at the same time the other flipped in the other direction. the change in their respective fortunes couldn't be more stark.

Also kind of ironic that people from essentially every socialist or communist country would risk their lives to come here, yet not vice versa? Must all be a bunch of dummies, I guess.

I don't want NY to fail to prove I'm right. But I am a deep skeptic that this will work and be sustainable.

All of Western Europe is “socialist” especially by your standards. They have universal healthcare and public universities that charge little to no tuition. No one in France, the UK, Germany, or the Scandinavian countries would ever trade their socialized government run healthcare system for the absolute wasteful sh tshow we have here with private health insurance oh and their kids don’t graduate college with $100-200k in student loan debt either.

Oh yeah and your example of Poland, I was just there a couple years ago with the Army, they have universal healthcare for their citizens and public universities and a booming economy.

regarding Poland, I think you unwittingly support my point. Poland turned to capitalism and their economy is booming. Their per capita GDP is the same or slightly higher than that of Japan now!! Venezuela went in the other direction.

Yet Poland is “socialist” by your standards they have universal healthcare for its citizens and public universities.

Again you got nothing but manufactured hysteria.

martin wrote:Don't really understand why the labels are important and really matter.

America or NYC won't change one bit in terms of what type of country or city it is if they make changes that favor policy that help people.

America did not suddenly become a socialist or communist country because we introduced Social Security or free meals at schools for kids in need.

What is the hangup besides screaming about the label nonesense?

These are the same people who called Clinton and Obama socialists. Credibility is zero point nothing.

Chandler wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

martin wrote:Do people in our country think that having a better maternity plan for new parents means communism? That having an upgraded subway system means it’s communism?

Feeding kids at school is communism? Taking out the profit in health care is communism?

All of those things are bad for our country and anyone who thinks having a better country is communism?

Fuck that

These clowns think social security is communism and want to get rid of it.

are you guys really debating whether Mandami is communist? "warmth of collectivism." It's not like he's hiding this.

I think the issue is the ideas all sound great on paper, and have for a long time, in a lot of places. Yet no one seems to be able to make it work even when their lives depended on it. And certainly not in any sustainable way. If you have a model socialist or communist country I'm all ears. Would be interested in what country communist or otherwise you'd like to emulate.

Compare Poland and Venezuela (which has largest proven oil reserves on the planet). One turned primarily capitalist at the same time the other flipped in the other direction. the change in their respective fortunes couldn't be more stark.

Also kind of ironic that people from essentially every socialist or communist country would risk their lives to come here, yet not vice versa? Must all be a bunch of dummies, I guess.

I don't want NY to fail to prove I'm right. But I am a deep skeptic that this will work and be sustainable.

You speak of socialism as if it is the same thing as communism. They are not remotely similar.

You called the mayor of NY a communist. Yeah, he's Stalin and Mao redux.

Then you effectively compare his agenda to addressing housing costs or providing daycare for single parents as equivalent to a Venezuelan dictator? WTF?

It's fine to be skeptical when someone actually tries to use government to assist people for a change because it is a big hill to climb, but to cast aspersions with commie slurs is lazy and inaccurate.

You do realize Marx and Engels identified themselves as socialist? That's the term they used. and many/most communist regimes identify themselves as socialist

the language of "collectivism" (i.e., the term Mamdami uses) is itself part of that Marxist dialectic.

I'm all ears for your explanation about how "[t]hey are not remotely similar"

Also NYC has been run by democrats for decades. Were they not trying "to use government to assist people"? Of course they were. And I'm not blaming anyone for their intentions to try and help people. That's one of the key roles of government. The issue is the method. I haven't seen any evidence where the socialist method has helped in a sustainable way, and seen the evidence to the contrary.

If there's a socialist approach that has helped people please note it or at least admit you don't know of any.

Socialized medicine and education is socialism. Democracy and socialism go together naturally.

The USA is a primitive and increasingly backwards country where a majority of the citizens regard the word socialism as if it is a precursor to totalitarian communist regimes.

Thanks for the Marx and Engels 101 though.

In the past 48 hours you've seen the future of American totalitarianism unfold and some of you want to take weird swipes at Mamdani as a commie rather than facing the national and international crisis we're living in.

Rookie wrote:

martin wrote:Is this communism or socialism?

Or being a first world wealthy city that can prioritize these things?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/nytimes/status/2009258957005599063

The gov’t in charge of more child care centers, what could possibly go wrong

Much much much less than the Catholic Churches out there?

Dude, your pessimism in the face of making this world a better place needs help.

There are a lot of bad things going on out there. Our president and his political party are covering up blatant pedophilia within the Epstein world right out in the open. Invading countries. Bombing random ****. Not protecting democracy around the world. Killing US citizens on camera and then lying about it. And Trump keeps licking the taint of Putin every chance he gets and when he is told.

Child care is a blessing for tons of families.

Let us know which you support, cause it’s hard to tell.

Nalod wrote:Social programs are hybrids to smooth out the deficiencies of capitalism. The ignorance of the general population does not understand the intricacies and instead parrot opions masquerading as news to furhter promote the agenda.

Strip out Mandami's islamic flavor and just consider the intent of his message. I am not comfortable with his pandering to his core constiuents while the chief executive of a city with the largest jewish population in the world. He has to be careful here in my opinion as centuries old rhetoric gets promoted by hateful ignorance.

Lets be clear, transportation, childcare and affordable housing subsidized by taxpayers is a form of wealth redistribution and socialist in ecnomoic theory. National socialist parties, like Nazi germany is not this. Bernie Sanders, Elizabith Warren, and AOC are not dangerous radicals promoting divide. The Trumpian call of "radical liberals" is pretty ****ing stupid and shocking that at the highest level the executive branch has been dumbed down as it has. Because we the people have voted him in it became legitimatized by the masses. What your seeing from them is a demonstration of a totalitarian system that is not adhereing to principals of the constitution. They can move faster than the judicial system.

Dehumanizing makes us numb. What ICE has done the last two days and Vances comments are very dangerous. Much of makes us great is slipping away. I fear bad things have to happen even worse before we get a grip. Remember Kent State? It shocked us. This administration uses fear to justify its actions.

Good post. Agree on all counts.

We've past the danger zone and are already in the abyss. The only question is will it be a softer or a harder landing.

We may not make it to November. People largely seem oblivious to the obvious which is this regime is prepping the military to be its personal militia and with that comes state sanctioned terrorism at home and abroad. Nobody is safe, not even old white men with red baseball caps.

We could already be days away from state vs. federal warfare if Minnesota's governor commands his state's national guard to escort ICE across state borders. Yes, I know the National Guard can be federalized, but the recent SCOTUS ruling will make the White House flinch before retesting those boundaries. They'll probably retreat and plot other assaults elsewhere for now.

Nalod wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Nalod wrote:Social programs are hybrids to smooth out the deficiencies of capitalism. The ignorance of the general population does not understand the intricacies and instead parrot opions masquerading as news to furhter promote the agenda.

Strip out Mandami's islamic flavor and just consider the intent of his message. I am not comfortable with his pandering to his core constiuents while the chief executive of a city with the largest jewish population in the world. He has to be careful here in my opinion as centuries old rhetoric gets promoted by hateful ignorance.

Lets be clear, transportation, childcare and affordable housing subsidized by taxpayers is a form of wealth redistribution and socialist in ecnomoic theory. National socialist parties, like Nazi germany is not this. Bernie Sanders, Elizabith Warren, and AOC are not dangerous radicals promoting divide. The Trumpian call of "radical liberals" is pretty ****ing stupid and shocking that at the highest level the executive branch has been dumbed down as it has. Because we the people have voted him in it became legitimatized by the masses. What your seeing from them is a demonstration of a totalitarian system that is not adhereing to principals of the constitution. They can move faster than the judicial system.

Dehumanizing makes us numb. What ICE has done the last two days and Vances comments are very dangerous. Much of makes us great is slipping away. I fear bad things have to happen even worse before we get a grip. Remember Kent State? It shocked us. This administration uses fear to justify its actions.

Good post. Agree on all counts.

We've past the danger zone and are already in the abyss. The only question is will it be a softer or a harder landing.

We may not make it to November. People largely seem oblivious to the obvious which is this regime is prepping the military to be its personal militia and with that comes state sanctioned terrorism at home and abroad. Nobody is safe, not even old white men with red baseball caps.

We could already be days away from state vs. federal warfare if Minnesota's governor commands his state's national guard to escort ICE across state borders.

The Current levels of hypocricy are staggering. I do respect the velocity of this administration attempts but they are rushed and incomplete which leads to a level of incompetence that is dangerous. Fox News dehumanizing that womens murder was awful. Trump is an incompetent sociopath but Vance is more dangerous given he an opportunist and aware of his words. Calling that women out with not facts was very dangerous. He is using his position to cover up gross incompetence of a system that is over reaching.

Vance is a rudderless opportunist and is a sociopath in his own right.

One thing both he and Trump know is that neither one can win an election now. And they have no intention of surrendering control.

They are preparing to cancel the elections with a manufactured crisis. They will invoke martial law. This is their plan.

Anyone who doesn't see this is their only option and their obvious intention is an idiot.

They are not competent enough to rig every state's vote count to keep control of congress, so force is their only recourse.

The only thing that will prevent that from happening is a loss of nerve on their part, but when you have sociopathic zealots like Miller and Vought steering the ship that is unlikely to happen.

The alternative is losing Congress means Trump gets impeached by both houses. That may leave Vance, but without legislative powers. They may still try to go the martial law route after losing an election for control of congress, but the likelihood of maintaining control will be lower than if martial law is imposed prior to election rather than losing it first then going brute force.

Therefore, I expect the worst in 2026.

I think the next season of The Boys will be completely bonkers.

Masked secret police force is marching around cities arresting and jailing and killing citizens who do no wrong but not a peep about THAT being communist?