HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

technomaster wrote:I like this trade. Sure, it hurts to lose Randle and DiVincenzo, but I think it reshapes our roster in mostly positive ways.

Towns: On offense, he does everything Hartenstein did - and better almost across the board. He does a great job as a high post distributor and allows us to continue that fluid style of play. He's also a legit 3pt shooter (39.8% for his career!) and give us a 3pt shooting center for the first time in Knicks history.

On defense, while he's not an elite shot blocking threat, he's a 7 footer and gives us a LOT more length than Randle would as a fill-in center. And his team tends to play better with him on the floor. His +/- was a whopping +321 last season, with a PER of 23.8. Wow.

So now some rationalizations:
* We badly needed a proven starting center. Mitch won't be in true game shape until after the all star break, and recent whispers said that Randle wasn't going to be ready for the start of the season, so we were getting into risky territory. Coupled with the fact that both of those players were unavailable for much of the 2nd of the season and playoffs with their annual late season injuries, it's quite frankly good business to plug in this hole on an otherwise championship-quality roster
* We needed to balance the logjam at swingman. The Bridges trade, while quite excellent, set us up with a messy log jam of swingman-sized talent, with Hart and DiVincenzo likely playing reserve minutes in spite of their starter-quality talent. They certain proved their capabilities during the playoffs, showing off what they could do when given 40mpg! Then there's the emerging McBride and highly touted rookie Kolek, both of whom looked slated for borderline garbage time/change of pace roles. DiVincenzo opens up 20-25 mins of playing time. Let's just say that we had too much of a luxury of talent off the bench, and we've traded that for a starter.
* When healthy, we'll be a match up nightmare - With KAT as our starter, I anticipate a healthy starting lineup including KAT/Hart/OG/Bridges/Brunson, and Mitch moving to the bench. This gives us a mix of shooters, defenders, fundamental ball movers, cutters, and passers in our best lineup. We also have the option to play 2 7 footers at the same time.

My main thing is that Wolves teams with KAT as the starting center have been bad defensively. How bad? They mortgaged their future for Gobert. So I don't see the idea of playing KAT at center as positive. The team lost depth and Thibs has somethings to figure out defensively. Towns is a great shooter. But I feel it won't make up for the loss of Randle's inside physicality and Donte's prolific three points shooting. Time will tell and I hope I'm wrong.

This!

My main issue with KAT. He is not a dog. Does not like the lights.
JB is a dog.
Josh is a dog.
Randle is a dog.
Donte is a dog.
Minny had two Max in KATS and Rudy and with AE ( a top 3 in NBA) they were still short.
Watching KAT for years and can’t wait to see the reaction of the many soft missed threes from your Center position.
Maybe NY changes him and being at the Center position gets him back around the basket.
Do agree that before Gobert he was different.

Trust in Leon!
This is our chip team.
It’s do or die. Cuz no one is taking OGs and KATs contract if we don’t or they get hurt again.

I think we got KAT because we want 3s from the Center position not to try and get him to be a post player lol. That said he can score from anywhere and is the best scorer at his position in the league.

Knicksfan wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

jaydh wrote:Its possible Knicks knew they couldn't re-sign Randle and got a player under contract for several yrs

Possible but why not pay him? Would have kept Donte and been a lot cheaper than what KAT will get.
Think Kessler would have made a better move.

Did Kessler happen, though? Or any other rumored move for a center?

I hate losing DDV and I really wanted to see Randle get some redemption after the injury and the controversies, but we can’t close our eyes to the fact that this balances the roster in a much better way and the potential of a center like KAT in our scheme led by Brunson is big.

They say that fair deals leave both sides uncomfortable. We gained here and for the long-term goal, but it definitely hurt us on the way.

What it comes down to is that we just went all in on our FINAL piece.
Not happy that it is not a proven true difference maker.
And one that can’t create his own shot. (See last years conference finals)
And will be making $50,$53,$57,$60
Difficult salary when you consider the Celts have the same in KP and a 40 year old.

But again, that just an opinion. Always preached trusting Leon/Pro FOs so their analysis and come up with the right decisions.
Looking forward to see how this plays out.

nycericanguy wrote:In half a season we added OG, Mikal and KAT. Hard to argue with that. I wasn't sure we had enough after the OG trade for another big trade, let alone for TWO more big trades.

I am building off from you. All acquired. A full potential starting lineup.

Brunson, Mikal, Hart, OG, KAT.

Will be interesting to see how this team operates with a sniper at C. Also we have the defensive wing power to offset any lack of anchorship from Towns. This team can be a top 5 on D and top 5 on O kind of team IMO. Can’t underestimate two DPOY caliber wings on the same team.

Towns proved last year he can be an elite #2 next to an alpha guard. He also proved he can contribute on the #1 overall defense. He shed his “losing player” label and made a deep playoff run through a brutal West.

We seem a little thin now though. I wonder if we start Precious and bring Hart off the bench. But this settles all of the lingering lineup/rotation questions. Opens lanes for Dadiet and Kolek and also Deuce. And gives Brunson more space than he’s ever had before.

I’ve seen this likened to Celtics trading Smart for Porzingis. A gut punch trading the heart and soul of their team but a necessary move to give them a championship level offense.

OldFan wrote:Wow! I expected everyone to be excited.

Randle is a dog, but he's not a great fit.

DiVincenzo - Barring an injury, less playing time was going diminish his contributions and cost him money. Moving on was the best for him and the Knicks.

Kat is the best player involved in the deal, he fills a position of need and he's a better fit offensively and defensively than Randle.

Can it all go wrong of course, injuries, personalities... But the Knicks are giving themselves there best chance at a championship.

Yea DDVs role was down to like 15-18mpg. Deuce can fill that role now. You gotta give to get.

nycericanguy wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

technomaster wrote:I like this trade. Sure, it hurts to lose Randle and DiVincenzo, but I think it reshapes our roster in mostly positive ways.

Towns: On offense, he does everything Hartenstein did - and better almost across the board. He does a great job as a high post distributor and allows us to continue that fluid style of play. He's also a legit 3pt shooter (39.8% for his career!) and give us a 3pt shooting center for the first time in Knicks history.

On defense, while he's not an elite shot blocking threat, he's a 7 footer and gives us a LOT more length than Randle would as a fill-in center. And his team tends to play better with him on the floor. His +/- was a whopping +321 last season, with a PER of 23.8. Wow.

So now some rationalizations:
* We badly needed a proven starting center. Mitch won't be in true game shape until after the all star break, and recent whispers said that Randle wasn't going to be ready for the start of the season, so we were getting into risky territory. Coupled with the fact that both of those players were unavailable for much of the 2nd of the season and playoffs with their annual late season injuries, it's quite frankly good business to plug in this hole on an otherwise championship-quality roster
* We needed to balance the logjam at swingman. The Bridges trade, while quite excellent, set us up with a messy log jam of swingman-sized talent, with Hart and DiVincenzo likely playing reserve minutes in spite of their starter-quality talent. They certain proved their capabilities during the playoffs, showing off what they could do when given 40mpg! Then there's the emerging McBride and highly touted rookie Kolek, both of whom looked slated for borderline garbage time/change of pace roles. DiVincenzo opens up 20-25 mins of playing time. Let's just say that we had too much of a luxury of talent off the bench, and we've traded that for a starter.
* When healthy, we'll be a match up nightmare - With KAT as our starter, I anticipate a healthy starting lineup including KAT/Hart/OG/Bridges/Brunson, and Mitch moving to the bench. This gives us a mix of shooters, defenders, fundamental ball movers, cutters, and passers in our best lineup. We also have the option to play 2 7 footers at the same time.

My main thing is that Wolves teams with KAT as the starting center have been bad defensively. How bad? They mortgaged their future for Gobert. So I don't see the idea of playing KAT at center as positive. The team lost depth and Thibs has somethings to figure out defensively. Towns is a great shooter. But I feel it won't make up for the loss of Randle's inside physicality and Donte's prolific three points shooting. Time will tell and I hope I'm wrong.

This!

My main issue with KAT. He is not a dog. Does not like the lights.
JB is a dog.
Josh is a dog.
Randle is a dog.
Donte is a dog.
Minny had two Max in KATS and Rudy and with AE ( a top 3 in NBA) they were still short.
Watching KAT for years and can’t wait to see the reaction of the many soft missed threes from your Center position.
Maybe NY changes him and being at the Center position gets him back around the basket.
Do agree that before Gobert he was different.

Trust in Leon!
This is our chip team.
It’s do or die. Cuz no one is taking OGs and KATs contract if we don’t or they get hurt again.

Randle liked the lights? Sorry but dude shrunk in the playoffs more than any star I've ever seen. And not just playing poorly, but full out tantrums.

The whole playoff argument is long and repetitive.
But are you saying comparing KAT while surrounded by AE, Gobert, Conley, etc was the same as Randle surrounded by E Payton and the many all stars we had? Was anyone double teaming KAT?
Or deny he played with cracked ankle in Part Deux?
Minny sees the same thing I do. They were fooled as well and paid him like a top 5.
But again, I hope the move to NY and Center gets the dog in him and he proves me wrong.
He is obviously highly skilled.
And do agree that Randle lacked the temperament control in key situations.

HofstraBBall wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

technomaster wrote:I like this trade. Sure, it hurts to lose Randle and DiVincenzo, but I think it reshapes our roster in mostly positive ways.

Towns: On offense, he does everything Hartenstein did - and better almost across the board. He does a great job as a high post distributor and allows us to continue that fluid style of play. He's also a legit 3pt shooter (39.8% for his career!) and give us a 3pt shooting center for the first time in Knicks history.

On defense, while he's not an elite shot blocking threat, he's a 7 footer and gives us a LOT more length than Randle would as a fill-in center. And his team tends to play better with him on the floor. His +/- was a whopping +321 last season, with a PER of 23.8. Wow.

So now some rationalizations:
* We badly needed a proven starting center. Mitch won't be in true game shape until after the all star break, and recent whispers said that Randle wasn't going to be ready for the start of the season, so we were getting into risky territory. Coupled with the fact that both of those players were unavailable for much of the 2nd of the season and playoffs with their annual late season injuries, it's quite frankly good business to plug in this hole on an otherwise championship-quality roster
* We needed to balance the logjam at swingman. The Bridges trade, while quite excellent, set us up with a messy log jam of swingman-sized talent, with Hart and DiVincenzo likely playing reserve minutes in spite of their starter-quality talent. They certain proved their capabilities during the playoffs, showing off what they could do when given 40mpg! Then there's the emerging McBride and highly touted rookie Kolek, both of whom looked slated for borderline garbage time/change of pace roles. DiVincenzo opens up 20-25 mins of playing time. Let's just say that we had too much of a luxury of talent off the bench, and we've traded that for a starter.
* When healthy, we'll be a match up nightmare - With KAT as our starter, I anticipate a healthy starting lineup including KAT/Hart/OG/Bridges/Brunson, and Mitch moving to the bench. This gives us a mix of shooters, defenders, fundamental ball movers, cutters, and passers in our best lineup. We also have the option to play 2 7 footers at the same time.

My main thing is that Wolves teams with KAT as the starting center have been bad defensively. How bad? They mortgaged their future for Gobert. So I don't see the idea of playing KAT at center as positive. The team lost depth and Thibs has somethings to figure out defensively. Towns is a great shooter. But I feel it won't make up for the loss of Randle's inside physicality and Donte's prolific three points shooting. Time will tell and I hope I'm wrong.

This!

My main issue with KAT. He is not a dog. Does not like the lights.
JB is a dog.
Josh is a dog.
Randle is a dog.
Donte is a dog.
Minny had two Max in KATS and Rudy and with AE ( a top 3 in NBA) they were still short.
Watching KAT for years and can’t wait to see the reaction of the many soft missed threes from your Center position.
Maybe NY changes him and being at the Center position gets him back around the basket.
Do agree that before Gobert he was different.

Trust in Leon!
This is our chip team.
It’s do or die. Cuz no one is taking OGs and KATs contract if we don’t or they get hurt again.

Randle liked the lights? Sorry but dude shrunk in the playoffs more than any star I've ever seen. And not just playing poorly, but full out tantrums.

The whole playoff argument is long and repetitive.
But are you saying comparing KAT while surrounded by AE, Gobert, Conley, etc was the same as Randle surrounded by E Payton and the many all stars we had? Was anyone double teaming KAT?
Or deny he played with cracked ankle in Part Deux?
Minny sees the same thing I do. They were fooled as well and paid him like a top 5.
But again, I hope the move to NY and Center gets the dog in him and he proves me wrong.
He is obviously highly skilled.
And do agree that Randle lacked the temperament control in key situations.

I believe Minny had salary cap issues … it was predicted they would trade KAT as a result right after the season ended. Small market tings.

OldFan wrote:Wow! I expected everyone to be excited.

Randle is a dog, but he's not a great fit.

DiVincenzo - Barring an injury, less playing time was going diminish his contributions and cost him money. Moving on was the best for him and the Knicks.

Kat is the best player involved in the deal, he fills a position of need and he's a better fit offensively and defensively than Randle.

Can it all go wrong of course, injuries, personalities... But the Knicks are giving themselves there best chance at a championship.

Glad to see there are some fans in here that get it. I was waiting for the few to pop up.

We all emotionally shocked. Randle and DDV are dogs. But I’m on record about thumbs down Randle who can me mentally weak under pressure.

On top of that, Knicks medical staff understands his health more than anybody and they could not come together on a contract extension. So Randle had to go unfortunately. Mikal moved DDV to the bench. He would not be happy going from a 30 min starter to a limited bench role.

I think this a good move for both teams. It’s rare to see both teams win.

Not worried about Kat being soft. He’s surrounded by pitbulls. He’ll be fine.

But with that said, shout out to Randle. He held it down when nobody was here. And he was a true professional who impacted the community. But Leon on a mission right now.

THE DEUCE IS LOOSE

Old team vs new team
Old team season simulation
New team season simulation

Just curious which team 2k25 believes can win a chip?