nycericanguy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I’m still so torn on this Murray thing. Knicks starting 5 fits so well together. The sore spot is bench scoring. Obviously Murray can indirectly fix that mixing in with the second unit. The question is, is Murray a big enough difference maker overall to offset the imperfect fit with the starting group.

I mean its worth the risk to find out, whats the alternative? let Evan expire and lose the ability to match salary for a star later?

I think at worse he doesn't make us better but I don't see him making us worse.

Also if you stop thinking that he cant shoot, his fit isn't bad.. he's shooting 40% from 3 on high volume and has been improving every year from there, people need to stop calling him a non shooter at this point. the only guys we have shooting 40% 3 and making as many as he does are Brunson and DDV and those guys are ELITE shooters.

The alternative is absolutely not letting Fournier expire. We need that contract value. So trade him in a deal for Brogdon, or Rozier, or Gafford/Shamet, or one of the bogdanovics. Or worst case just pick up his option. We need that contract for a future trade somewhere. I’m just saying I’m torn between adding Murray or simply keeping the balance we have with the starters and adding bench help.

Somewhat related, I’m actually a bit higher on Deuce than grimes. I’ve been a bit down on grimes. He’s an excellent 3&D guy but his upside is somewhat limited beyond that. I’d move him sooner rather than later. His hot shooting tends to come late in games when the outcome is decided and he’s just launching freely. Then you have games like last night where it’s a huge opportunity for him and he’s a non factor. How Deuce stepped up is what you want from your young players against superior teams. Point is I would replace grimes in the rotation with a legit scorer and leave Deuce in his 12-15 mpg role.

ehh the idea of keeping Evan on the bench for a 3rd year just in case we need him as a trade chip... is just... not a good look. I would really hope we dont do that, why not trade him for someone that can actually help?

Brogdon is too old and not good enough to justify benching Duece and Grimes IMO.

And none of those guys would really be assets if we wanted to trade for a star later on. DJM could potentially be though.

Agreed murray is more of an asset. It’s a worthy gamble.

DJM's last season in SA when he ran PG he had an assist rate of 41% which is insane, for comparison Brunson's best has been 29%. Even as a secondary playmaker at shooting guard DJM is still averaging almost as many assists as Brunson.

Brunson's shooting being elite now, maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing to have someone who can create some easier looks for him.

nycericanguy wrote:I also think DJM might just be a better POINT GUARD than Brunson who is more of a scoring guard.

DJM's last season in SA when he ran PG he had an assist rate of 41% which is insane, for comparison Brunson's best has been 29%. Even as a secondary playmaker at shooting guard DJM is still averaging almost as many assists as Brunson.

Brunson's shooting being elite now, maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing to have someone who can create some easier looks for him.

DJM hasn’t affected winning his entire career, I just don’t get the man crush. In today’s game 3 pt shooting wins games. The team that is making them is going to win every time. Brunson already has the ball and puts pressure on the rim. We need another shooter who makes his shots. I like Huerter if he is going to be traded. I just don’t see us trading Grimes, Thibs and the FO love him. I’m going to say it last time and then I’m out. My gut says we pick up some bench reinforcements on the waiver wire after the trade deadline. Or, we use the TPE. Small moves not big swings.

nycericanguy wrote:

Rookie wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:I also think DJM might just be a better POINT GUARD than Brunson who is more of a scoring guard.

DJM's last season in SA when he ran PG he had an assist rate of 41% which is insane, for comparison Brunson's best has been 29%. Even as a secondary playmaker at shooting guard DJM is still averaging almost as many assists as Brunson.

Brunson's shooting being elite now, maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing to have someone who can create some easier looks for him.

DJM hasn’t affected winning his entire career, I just don’t get the man crush. In today’s game 3 pt shooting wins games. The team that is making them is going to win every time. Brunson already has the ball and puts pressure on the rim. We need another shooter who makes his shots. I like Huerter if he is going to be traded. I just don’t see us trading Grimes, Thibs and the FO love him. I’m going to say it last time and then I’m out. My gut says we pick up some bench reinforcements on the waiver wire after the trade deadline. Or, we use the TPE. Small moves not big swings.

he's shooting 40% from 3 on high volume, and he mostly creates his own looks, which is something you need in the playoffs. he doesn't need to be spoonfed wide open looks like Grimes, OG...etc...

Your not wrong. Those wide looks are from movement. When the iso thing happens players stop moving.
RJ/IQ was more Iso centric. Boston does a lot of this. Its not a bad thing BTW and it does win chips, but you have to get to crunch time in the finals to win a chip. Thus, teams that succeed have to execute both and defend. Simple to type the obvious.

Plug and play Stats are one part of green grass envy. DJM would be a nice player to have but.......
Why is ATL floundering as they are?
What about DJM and the way he left SAS. Both he and Spurs were happy to split. Has he changed? Coach Snyder is not pop but he came from that tree. Thibs is a hard coach to play for also. WE have seen the "Polls" right? Seems like some players love it and appreciate the attention to detail, others reject it. Some are too immature to understand. I kind have read into this might be what he and KAT have evolved into. I kind of thought He and DRose had this mutual intensity. If Thibs gets you and you get him seems like its a really good thing for all. The dog house is were you go if not. Good coaches do this. Great coaches get reputations. Larry, Phil, Pop, and Riles all were somewhat pricks in their own way. Thibs has one chip as assistant coach but not his yet.

Back to DJM, I'll give you this, if our FO and coach wants him Im good. After all, its their conviction based on far greater depth of scouting then glancing at "Basketball Reference" or YouTube clips. Some are good, some are fanboy crap but entertaining highlights.

Murray would fix most of our problems with the second unit. Have a bad feeling that starting him would lead to one big clusterfunk. Murray off the bench would balance things nicely.

GustavBahler wrote:DDV is a legit starter, one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. Does all the things Grimes didnt do as a starter. Just has to shoot better at home, which is about nerves more than anything IMO. The more time he spends at MSG, the better his numbers should get.

Murray would fix most of our problems with the second unit. Have a bad feeling that starting him would lead to one big clusterfunk. Murray off the bench would balance things nicely.

Having Murray off the bench obviously isn’t realistic, but Brogdon brings about 80% of what Murray does but is a better shooter and used to coming off the bench.

GustavBahler wrote:DDV is a legit starter, one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. Does all the things Grimes didnt do as a starter. Just has to shoot better at home, which is about nerves more than anything IMO. The more time he spends at MSG, the better his numbers should get.

Murray would fix most of our problems with the second unit. Have a bad feeling that starting him would lead to one big clusterfunk. Murray off the bench would balance things nicely.

DDV only plays 24mpg though, he's never been a guy that can play 30+... probably due to his size.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:DDV is a legit starter, one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. Does all the things Grimes didnt do as a starter. Just has to shoot better at home, which is about nerves more than anything IMO. The more time he spends at MSG, the better his numbers should get.

Murray would fix most of our problems with the second unit. Have a bad feeling that starting him would lead to one big clusterfunk. Murray off the bench would balance things nicely.

Having Murray off the bench obviously isn’t realistic, but Brogdon brings about 80% of what Murray does but is a better shooter and used to coming off the bench.

100% disagree. Just don't.

Murray is not coming to the Knicks to come off the bench. It's completely unrealistic

TheMTL wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:DDV is a legit starter, one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. Does all the things Grimes didnt do as a starter. Just has to shoot better at home, which is about nerves more than anything IMO. The more time he spends at MSG, the better his numbers should get.

Murray would fix most of our problems with the second unit. Have a bad feeling that starting him would lead to one big clusterfunk. Murray off the bench would balance things nicely.

Having Murray off the bench obviously isn’t realistic, but Brogdon brings about 80% of what Murray does but is a better shooter and used to coming off the bench.

100% disagree. Just don't.

Murray is not coming to the Knicks to come off the bench. It's completely unrealistic

I didn't realize Murray had a choice in the matter. Please help me understand why you think that is the case.

Now we have OG who shoots and defends, there's no reason DJM couldn't work as an upgraded version of RJ. He's basically RJ & IQ combined into one player.

nycericanguy wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:DDV is a legit starter, one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. Does all the things Grimes didnt do as a starter. Just has to shoot better at home, which is about nerves more than anything IMO. The more time he spends at MSG, the better his numbers should get.

Murray would fix most of our problems with the second unit. Have a bad feeling that starting him would lead to one big clusterfunk. Murray off the bench would balance things nicely.

DDV only plays 24mpg though, he's never been a guy that can play 30+... probably due to his size.

Are we really going to pretend that DJM doesn't weigh 180lbs. DiVicenzo literally weighs 20+ lbs more