BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:DJ is really the guy that makes sense if we are making another trade this year.

He's a guy that has averaged over 9apg playing PG, has been all NBA defense, and can of course handle the ball.

If his improved 3pt shot is legit and Thibs can get him back to being all defense he could be a huge addition.

Part of me wants a legit bench player after seeing the free flowing ball movement/cutting of the first unit with DDV and OG. Adding another pounder to the starters just puts RJ back there on offense.

we got rid of TWO high usage scorers, I think theres room for and probably a need for a 3rd scorer that can create. DJ solves alot for us right now, he didn't make so much sense before but he fits this team well.

He also led the league in deflections 2 years ago, he's long and like DDV will get into the passing lanes.

I don't see us trading for older players and nuetering Grimes again nor should we.

I think Flynn was bought in as that emergency ball handler for now, and he could end up taking Miles spot if Miles doesn't step up.

I get your point. The sweet spot is finding a 15 mpg backup who is competent to run an offense. Not necessarily someone who is going to play off ball or eat into Grimes/DDV mins. If Brunson goes down for 2 weeks this team is in serious trouble right now IMO.

Although I am still fine getting a guy like Brogdon or Tyus Jones. Jones is honestly the perfect prototype player I am thinking of.

Grimes truthfully hasn't earned guaranteed heavy minutes. You probably would trade him if you are going after Brogdon anyway.

if we trade Grimes for DJ then the minutes are available.

you need that 3rd scorer come playoff time, especially with Randle's struggles. And you need that 3rd creator.

DJ put up 23ppg against MIA in the playoffs last year, he's the only guy that could provide any insurance for a Brunson injury.

Concern is, why is it not working in ATL? You would think that's great on paper as well.
He likes the ball in his hand. Not the case in ATL nor would it be here with JB.
He is the elite creator we need? Three point efficiency?

Still a fan and honestly would not complain if we pulled it off but just concerns I have.
May prefer rolling with my man Devo. Great fit this far. And hope Grimes, JHart hold second unit down.

May be a case of small improvements a better option at optimizing returns.
Back up C, vet back up PG and vet scorer off the bench.
Like idea of Collins, Bones, Brogdon, Tyus and even Demar if not too costly.

Because of Trae. Trae needs the ball in his hands and is not a good off ball guy (in the way Brunson can be), and that takes the ball out of Dejounte's hands.

And then Dejounte has to guard big SG's, which he can, but he is better with the smaller, quicker PG type dudes.

JB"s climb to possible 1A has been due to his ability to have the ball in his hand, take advantage of mid court pivot game and increase role from what he was in Dallas. AKA a spot up shooter to heavier ball handler in Luka.

So why put him back in that position?

I'm not. I think they can strike a nice balance, especially if one of those guys who has the initial DJM comes off the bench as a 6th man.

Earl, Clyde.

Murray, if he comes here, ain't coming to be a 6th man. I think that would be one of the things Paul and Leon discuss during their "sit-down." Maybe they'd stagger minutes and put Murray in the "RJ" role in the second unit.

You are not wrong.

Probably photoshopped

Knixkik wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:I agree with Martin, at the end of the day it will be Malcolm Brogdon for Fournier for a future first
and we keep Grimes out of the deal. Then we turn to getting a center for the playoffs.

Hartenstein
Randle
Anunoby
DiVincenzo
Brunson

Hart
Brogdon
Grimes
Achiuwa

With McBride in his 10th man emergency role

I like it. The only downside is grimes minutes will go back to being pinched when the team is full strength but I just don’t see an alternative there. Other options instead of Brogdon like Rozier or Clarkson do the same thing.

Im just worried about the team's second unit. Across two game we can clearly see the effects of the loss of IQ, who is balling on his 2nd game with the Raptors. I'm curious to add Murray even as a trial coz if it doesn't work out a package of Murray and a young player plus 3 protected 1st is much better than Fournier and a young player plus 4 or 5 protected picks for a chance to trade for a superstar.

But at the current state of the roster, Im not sure if Murray is the right player to round out the roster for the rest of the season. The team needs a scoring jolt off the bench, will moving Devincenzo and probably giving RJ's role on the 2nd unit to Murray will do the trick or just trade for Brogdon or Clarkson to fortify the scoring of the bench.

Will a package of Brogdon or clarkson plus 3 1st rounders be enough to get a superstar in the off season? Im not optimistic. Thats the only reason why i want the FO to trade for Murray at the deadline. It just seem like the current 2nd unit is not ready to fill the shoes left by IQ. This current team might be better than last year's team but if the FO can still make a move to help the second unit production, maybe they can barge to the Eastern conference Finals if things break the team's way.

I have to ask out loud - why wouldn't you give Fournier a chance, especially when McBride or Anunoby are on the floor to cover? He is a legit NBA scoring threat and we are talking about a bench that can't score.

The other obvious, cheap solution would be to grab an Alec Burks who can play on or off ball and create his own offense.

But we still need a little more talent, we need a 3rd scorer, we need a legit bench focal point.

DJ is a riskier "all in" move or at least much closer to it.

Brogdon is safer play to just load up in an area of glaring weakness now. Tyus Jones would be nice or a bench floor general like that would also work. Burks is a cheap option we could probably get for 1-2 seconds. Burks and Randle could do just fine with that second staggered unit. We don't need to make a huge play right now because the starters look really good. That said, DJ might give us a punchers chance at winning it all if it clicks right.

nycericanguy wrote:I dont get the Brogdon love, he's 31, not nearly good enough to really make a drastic difference, and would cost us Evan's valuable contract and take us out of the running for another star. He will also either cost us Grimes or essentially take his minutes even if we don't need to include him.

Hard pass.

DJM is the only guy that really could substantially raise our ceiling if things go right, while being young enough to be part of the future, and while also being an asset to trade if we want to trade for a star.

Brogdons contract gives us Evans valuable contract value next season and he will actually play very well. Very good two way player. If he remains with the club for a couple of seasons that's just fine, he doesn't have to be here long term. He is a vet that championship teams always have on their bench, which we currently don't have. If he was younger there would be no way we could acquire him. He has good size as well. I would prefer Murray but sometimes plan B can work out. I get it you like Grimes, buy his Jersey and go to sleep with it every night. But Grimes is not good enough to prevent us getting Brogdon or DeRozan or for many other players that might be available. Be a fan of the team more so then for an individual role player.

Knixkik wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:I dont get the Brogdon love, he's 31, not nearly good enough to really make a drastic difference, and would cost us Evan's valuable contract and take us out of the running for another star. He will also either cost us Grimes or essentially take his minutes even if we don't need to include him.

Hard pass.

DJM is the only guy that really could substantially raise our ceiling if things go right, while being young enough to be part of the future, and while also being an asset to trade if we want to trade for a star.

Brogdon has good positional size, really good shooter, solid on and off the ball, his contract is perfect as it’s one more year for slightly more money than Fournier’s, which makes it easier to match a larger star salary. His age and injury history is why his cost should be lower. He’s a perfect fit for what this team needs off the bench. His contract is more valuable than Fournier’s considering we would have to make a decision on Fournier’s contract before a star likely becomes available. Brogdon is a slightly higher salary for one more year in an actually useful player for what we need.

I think Brogdan is fine, tho his defense has fallen off in recent years. The thing about his alary tho is that the Knicks currently sit just under $10M under the hard cap. The OG extension is coming up and iHart's FA after the season. You bring Brogdan and you have to be confident that he is a difference maker and, to be honest, I'm not sure the team wins many more games with Brogdan.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:I dont get the Brogdon love, he's 31, not nearly good enough to really make a drastic difference, and would cost us Evan's valuable contract and take us out of the running for another star. He will also either cost us Grimes or essentially take his minutes even if we don't need to include him.

Hard pass.

DJM is the only guy that really could substantially raise our ceiling if things go right, while being young enough to be part of the future, and while also being an asset to trade if we want to trade for a star.

Brogdon has good positional size, really good shooter, solid on and off the ball, his contract is perfect as it’s one more year for slightly more money than Fournier’s, which makes it easier to match a larger star salary. His age and injury history is why his cost should be lower. He’s a perfect fit for what this team needs off the bench. His contract is more valuable than Fournier’s considering we would have to make a decision on Fournier’s contract before a star likely becomes available. Brogdon is a slightly higher salary for one more year in an actually useful player for what we need.

I think Brogdan is fine, tho his defense has fallen off in recent years. The thing about his alary tho is that the Knicks currently sit just under $10M under the hard cap. The OG extension is coming up and iHart's FA after the season. You bring Brogdan and you have to be confident that he is a difference maker and, to be honest, I'm not sure the team wins many more games with Brogdan.

I don’t view Brogdon being the direct reason the Knicks win more games, I see him as a solution to take some pressure off of Brunson and Randle. Thibs isn’t playing those guys less than 40 mins in a non-blowout. He doesn’t trust the bench outside of Hart. Can’t run Brunson to the ground. Also, what are the odds he plays 82 games ? Brogdon is a guy who can step up like Quickley did. We need to keep these guys upright.

Knixkik wrote:I’ve been thinking about how although Washington doesn’t have the perfect players, they might be the perfect trade partner. The Washington first is our least valuable. It has no chance to convey into a first because Washington will be bad and have no pressure to be good anytime soon. And Poole sucks and they are stuck with him, so they are sort of locked into being bad for awhile. Knicks can send Fournier and their pick back for some combination of players to help the depth. Gafford or Tyus Jones, along with either Wright, Gallinari, or Johnny Davis. Something along those lines. Again not sexy at all but useful pieces to have. Some salary to carry over into next year since I doubt we pick up Fournier’s option. This is just a way to get some of what we need without giving up anything real. The Washington pick is as fake a first as they come and everyone knows it at this point.