Give the Raptors credit. They are better than their record. Van Vleet is having a rough season shooting the ball but he was on fire hitting threes from everywhere. Brunson and him going back and forth was fun to watch! Barnes was much better and showed why he won ROY last season. He's a tough cover.

I was that impressed with OG. Nice two way player but they were saying the Raptors wanted a Spida type package with unprotected picks...yeah, hard pass!

The guy I really like on that team that might be available if they decide to throw the season is Trent!

SergioNYK wrote:Tough loss but not that upset about it (still hyped and happy about the Giants win ngl lol!). Game should have never went into OT as RJ was definitely fouled on that last monster dunk! Great play btw! But at the same time, we once again missed too many key FT's. Specifically Randle and Brunson. As leaders and go-to guys in clutch situation they got to fix that! But this wasn't their game. Combined 18/59 from the field and 3/12 from three. Both have been on such a tear that an off game was bound to happen. Expecting both to bounce back.

Give the Raptors credit. They are better than their record. Van Vleet is having a rough season shooting the ball but he was on fire hitting threes from everywhere. Brunson and him going back and forth was fun to watch! Barnes was much better and showed why he won ROY last season. He's a tough cover.

I was that impressed with OG. Nice two way player but they were saying the Raptors wanted a Spida type package with unprotected picks...yeah, hard pass!

The guy I really like on that team that might be available if they decide to throw the season is Trent!

If you are able to acquire a guy (or combination of guys) like Trent/Duarte/Bey/Caruso and a backup PF/C like Wendell Carter/Bamba/Bol (I know they are all on the Magic), The dude from the Spurs would be nice too. I think the Knicks would be in a good spot.

However the easiest deal to make that everyone will probably HATE is a deal that brings back Bullock, Hardaway and a Christian Wood (I would prefer Powell) for Fournier, Reddish, iHart and Dallas' pick back

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:Tough loss but not that upset about it (still hyped and happy about the Giants win ngl lol!). Game should have never went into OT as RJ was definitely fouled on that last monster dunk! Great play btw! But at the same time, we once again missed too many key FT's. Specifically Randle and Brunson. As leaders and go-to guys in clutch situation they got to fix that! But this wasn't their game. Combined 18/59 from the field and 3/12 from three. Both have been on such a tear that an off game was bound to happen. Expecting both to bounce back.

Give the Raptors credit. They are better than their record. Van Vleet is having a rough season shooting the ball but he was on fire hitting threes from everywhere. Brunson and him going back and forth was fun to watch! Barnes was much better and showed why he won ROY last season. He's a tough cover.

I was that impressed with OG. Nice two way player but they were saying the Raptors wanted a Spida type package with unprotected picks...yeah, hard pass!

The guy I really like on that team that might be available if they decide to throw the season is Trent!

If you are able to acquire a guy (or combination of guys) like Trent/Duarte/Bey/Caruso and a backup PF/C like Wendell Carter/Bamba/Bol (I know they are all on the Magic), The dude from the Spurs would be nice too. I think the Knicks would be in a good spot.

However the easiest deal to make that everyone will probably HATE is a deal that brings back Bullock, Hardaway and a Christian Wood (I would prefer Powell) for Fournier, Reddish, iHart and Dallas' pick back

I haven't been following Dallas for a while, but Bullock and THJ aren't shooting the ball well and Wood plays no defense. I'd probably say no to that deal. At the very least, I wouldn't give Dallas their pick back

You have Simms and Mitch for defense. This trade is about loading the bench with offense. Wood gives Thibs a different center then Mitch and Sims. Bullock already played well under Thibs and his role would be as a 7th 8th man. With a combo of Hardaway Quick and Woods off the bench, Offense will no longer be a problem and you still have Bullock, Quick, Deuce, and Sims. Still have Obi and Rose to get back some draft capital if need be.

It would be a major move and but it is probably the most cost effective one to make while giving the Knicks what they need.

And let's be honest, Hardaway now is better than anything the Knicks have on the bench other than Quick.

joec32033 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:Tough loss but not that upset about it (still hyped and happy about the Giants win ngl lol!). Game should have never went into OT as RJ was definitely fouled on that last monster dunk! Great play btw! But at the same time, we once again missed too many key FT's. Specifically Randle and Brunson. As leaders and go-to guys in clutch situation they got to fix that! But this wasn't their game. Combined 18/59 from the field and 3/12 from three. Both have been on such a tear that an off game was bound to happen. Expecting both to bounce back.

Give the Raptors credit. They are better than their record. Van Vleet is having a rough season shooting the ball but he was on fire hitting threes from everywhere. Brunson and him going back and forth was fun to watch! Barnes was much better and showed why he won ROY last season. He's a tough cover.

I was that impressed with OG. Nice two way player but they were saying the Raptors wanted a Spida type package with unprotected picks...yeah, hard pass!

The guy I really like on that team that might be available if they decide to throw the season is Trent!

If you are able to acquire a guy (or combination of guys) like Trent/Duarte/Bey/Caruso and a backup PF/C like Wendell Carter/Bamba/Bol (I know they are all on the Magic), The dude from the Spurs would be nice too. I think the Knicks would be in a good spot.

However the easiest deal to make that everyone will probably HATE is a deal that brings back Bullock, Hardaway and a Christian Wood (I would prefer Powell) for Fournier, Reddish, iHart and Dallas' pick back

I haven't been following Dallas for a while, but Bullock and THJ aren't shooting the ball well and Wood plays no defense. I'd probably say no to that deal. At the very least, I wouldn't give Dallas their pick back

You have Simms and Mitch for defense. This trade is about loading the bench with offense. Wood gives Thibs a different center then Mitch and Sims. Bullock already played well under Thibs and his role would be as a 7th 8th man. With a combo of Hardaway Quick and Woods off the bench, Offense will no longer be a problem and you still have Bullock, Quick, Deuce, and Sims. Still have Obi and Rose to get back some draft capital if need be.

It would be a major move and but it is probably the most cost effective one to make while giving the Knicks what they need.

And let's be honest, Hardaway now is better than anything the Knicks have on the bench other than Quick.

So you're going to pay Wood just to be a piece in a four headed backup center corps? Or are you gonna let him walk in FA? It just seems like a square peg in a round hole. And the defense thing...I know Bullock played well for us once, but that was two years ago. He's 31 now. If you're talking a deal that's essentially for Cam straight up, I'd think about it. As for THJ, offense seems to be a real problem for him this season. He is streaky and you never know what you're getting. I'd need more convincing for that trade idea.

joec32033 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:Tough loss but not that upset about it (still hyped and happy about the Giants win ngl lol!). Game should have never went into OT as RJ was definitely fouled on that last monster dunk! Great play btw! But at the same time, we once again missed too many key FT's. Specifically Randle and Brunson. As leaders and go-to guys in clutch situation they got to fix that! But this wasn't their game. Combined 18/59 from the field and 3/12 from three. Both have been on such a tear that an off game was bound to happen. Expecting both to bounce back.

Give the Raptors credit. They are better than their record. Van Vleet is having a rough season shooting the ball but he was on fire hitting threes from everywhere. Brunson and him going back and forth was fun to watch! Barnes was much better and showed why he won ROY last season. He's a tough cover.

I was that impressed with OG. Nice two way player but they were saying the Raptors wanted a Spida type package with unprotected picks...yeah, hard pass!

The guy I really like on that team that might be available if they decide to throw the season is Trent!

If you are able to acquire a guy (or combination of guys) like Trent/Duarte/Bey/Caruso and a backup PF/C like Wendell Carter/Bamba/Bol (I know they are all on the Magic), The dude from the Spurs would be nice too. I think the Knicks would be in a good spot.

However the easiest deal to make that everyone will probably HATE is a deal that brings back Bullock, Hardaway and a Christian Wood (I would prefer Powell) for Fournier, Reddish, iHart and Dallas' pick back

I haven't been following Dallas for a while, but Bullock and THJ aren't shooting the ball well and Wood plays no defense. I'd probably say no to that deal. At the very least, I wouldn't give Dallas their pick back

You have Simms and Mitch for defense. This trade is about loading the bench with offense. Wood gives Thibs a different center then Mitch and Sims. Bullock already played well under Thibs and his role would be as a 7th 8th man. With a combo of Hardaway Quick and Woods off the bench, Offense will no longer be a problem and you still have Bullock, Quick, Deuce, and Sims. Still have Obi and Rose to get back some draft capital if need be.

It would be a major move and but it is probably the most cost effective one to make while giving the Knicks what they need.

And let's be honest, Hardaway now is better than anything the Knicks have on the bench other than Quick.

So you're going to pay Wood just to be a piece in a four headed backup center corps? Or are you gonna let him walk in FA? It just seems like a square peg in a round hole. And the defense thing...I know Bullock played well for us once, but that was two years ago. He's 31 now. If you're talking a deal that's essentially for Cam straight up, I'd think about it. As for THJ, offense seems to be a real problem for him this season. He is streaky and you never know what you're getting. I'd need more convincing for that trade idea.

It's not 4 headed. Mitch Woods Sims. Woods also can get some time at the PF, IMO.

I know the players are flawed, but they aren't 1 dimensional, they are giving the Knicks what they can use, and you are not giving up the farm.

You want to get guys I mentioned in the origional post cool. Me too. But one of those guys is like plugging one hole in a damn with your finger when someone hit it with a machine gun. Not to mention just getting one of the guys I mentioned originally (Duarte, etc...) will cost a lot more.

Knicks need multiple things. Would really be giving up nothing (Dallas' pick is worth more to Dallas than the Knicks with the overall mechanations of trade rules vs. Where the pick may fall for us. And you can get more picks with Obi (a 1st) and Rose (at least a second)

I value that Dallas pick a little more. I don't think Duarte would cost more. I think that deal gets done with a protected first rounders. Maybe tow 2nd rounders or an Obi swap. Putting aside the fact that I'm not a fan of Wood's game, the fact that he's a FA after the season makes me hesitate to give up a draft pick for him. If this trade does go through, how much would you be willing to pay Wood? Dallas is rumored to want to extend him 2 years/$18M.

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:Tough loss but not that upset about it (still hyped and happy about the Giants win ngl lol!). Game should have never went into OT as RJ was definitely fouled on that last monster dunk! Great play btw! But at the same time, we once again missed too many key FT's. Specifically Randle and Brunson. As leaders and go-to guys in clutch situation they got to fix that! But this wasn't their game. Combined 18/59 from the field and 3/12 from three. Both have been on such a tear that an off game was bound to happen. Expecting both to bounce back.

Give the Raptors credit. They are better than their record. Van Vleet is having a rough season shooting the ball but he was on fire hitting threes from everywhere. Brunson and him going back and forth was fun to watch! Barnes was much better and showed why he won ROY last season. He's a tough cover.

I was that impressed with OG. Nice two way player but they were saying the Raptors wanted a Spida type package with unprotected picks...yeah, hard pass!

The guy I really like on that team that might be available if they decide to throw the season is Trent!

If you are able to acquire a guy (or combination of guys) like Trent/Duarte/Bey/Caruso and a backup PF/C like Wendell Carter/Bamba/Bol (I know they are all on the Magic), The dude from the Spurs would be nice too. I think the Knicks would be in a good spot.

However the easiest deal to make that everyone will probably HATE is a deal that brings back Bullock, Hardaway and a Christian Wood (I would prefer Powell) for Fournier, Reddish, iHart and Dallas' pick back

I haven't been following Dallas for a while, but Bullock and THJ aren't shooting the ball well and Wood plays no defense. I'd probably say no to that deal. At the very least, I wouldn't give Dallas their pick back

You have Simms and Mitch for defense. This trade is about loading the bench with offense. Wood gives Thibs a different center then Mitch and Sims. Bullock already played well under Thibs and his role would be as a 7th 8th man. With a combo of Hardaway Quick and Woods off the bench, Offense will no longer be a problem and you still have Bullock, Quick, Deuce, and Sims. Still have Obi and Rose to get back some draft capital if need be.

It would be a major move and but it is probably the most cost effective one to make while giving the Knicks what they need.

And let's be honest, Hardaway now is better than anything the Knicks have on the bench other than Quick.

So you're going to pay Wood just to be a piece in a four headed backup center corps? Or are you gonna let him walk in FA? It just seems like a square peg in a round hole. And the defense thing...I know Bullock played well for us once, but that was two years ago. He's 31 now. If you're talking a deal that's essentially for Cam straight up, I'd think about it. As for THJ, offense seems to be a real problem for him this season. He is streaky and you never know what you're getting. I'd need more convincing for that trade idea.

It's not 4 headed. Mitch Woods Sims. Woods also can get some time at the PF, IMO.

I know the players are flawed, but they aren't 1 dimensional, they are giving the Knicks what they can use, and you are not giving up the farm.

You want to get guys I mentioned in the origional post cool. Me too. But one of those guys is like plugging one hole in a damn with your finger when someone hit it with a machine gun. Not to mention just getting one of the guys I mentioned originally (Duarte, etc...) will cost a lot more.

Knicks need multiple things. Would really be giving up nothing (Dallas' pick is worth more to Dallas than the Knicks with the overall mechanations of trade rules vs. Where the pick may fall for us. And you can get more picks with Obi (a 1st) and Rose (at least a second)

I value that Dallas pick a little more. I don't think Duarte would cost more. I think that deal gets done with a protected first rounders. Maybe tow 2nd rounders or an Obi swap. Putting aside the fact that I'm not a fan of Wood's game, the fact that he's a FA after the season makes me hesitate to give up a draft pick for him. If this trade does go through, how much would you be willing to pay Wood? Dallas is rumored to want to extend him 2 years/$18M.

Wood is a FA. I'd let him go and take the blessings of getting out of Fournier and iHart, that way you chave some money to spend in FA (I think) to just plug some holes. You still have tons of draft capital to get a star if one becomes available. Bullock and Hardaway off the bench as secondary scorers is not a bad thing.

I must over value Duarte alot (I loved him in that draft). But one piece (especially a guy like Duarte) is not fixing all our problems.

To be fair I did preface this whole thing by saying no one would like it.

Physically he looks frail and with little explosion —- mediocre 1st step.

At 25 already he looks like Obi’s mini me without the athleticism.

He is returning from ankle injury but he seems to have NO CONFIDENCE in Indy and wonder what a shooting slump in NY would do to him.

Obi/Duece for Duarte/I Jackson I could live with because I like Jackson’s length and shot blocking as a bench 4/5.

joec32033 wrote:

Kemet wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Kemet wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

MS wrote:Sums up the season. Every time they turn the corner they give it away.

Lack of execution, selfish play in the fourth, Randle forcing everything, holding the ball, no movement and guys standing around. Julius was unhinged out there. For as good as he has been there is that streak that just makes you nervous.

Thibs needs to find a way to stop playing guys 40 minutes.

It is possible to get Mitch an easy basket occasionally, get grimes a few shots. Can’t keep running the two man with Brunson and Randle all night.

You’re not allowed to say anything negative about Thibs mins distribution. It’s never thibs fault his players are tired 🤷‍♂️

Him doing that got the Knicks where they are record wise. Give a viable alternative instead of just complaining and the incessant too many minutes chatter turns into an actually viable discussion. I said it before first his rotation was too big and people complained to shorten it. He shortens it, they win, now people are worried about too many minutes to the top guys.

Give a viable alternative for this coach to play his top players less minutes and still get similar production from the team as a whole.

Coach Thibs has a head coaching CAREER of just coaching 8 or 7 players in a 82 game season.

Do u recall when Thibs sat Nate Robinson on the bench the whole season, and needed a 30 minute Nate Robinson to win in the playoff SMH
Coach Thibs 9 man rotation is a one tempo rotation when all 3 of the ball handlers (Brunson/Barrett/Randle) are playing 40 minutes a game. Opponents beat the Knicks by speeding up the offense tempo to seven seconds or less in the 2nd half of the game to outscore the Knicks the last two quarters of the game (The reason the Knicks lose leads so much in the game.
The Raptors 7 man rotation did to us what teams bean doing to them all seasons in the final quarter playing lock defense, and pushing the ball. The Knicks never got the lead in overtime .. Two 40 minute games in two days, or three 40 minute games in four days.
Brunson played 42 minutes gave out 4 Dimes yesterday, today Brunson played 43 minutes and 2 Dimes !!!!!!

I'll take this line by line then....

Thibs making a career out of only coaching 7 or 8 players....

2010/11 Bulls....11 players over 12 minutes per game
2011/12 Bulls....11 players over 14 minutes per game
2012/13 Bulls....10 players over 11 minutes per game
2013/14 Bulls....10 players over 15 minutes per game (not counting Marquis Teague played 12.7 over a span of 19 games)
2014/15 Bulls....10 players over 19 minutes per game
2016/17 Wolves...11 players over 12 minutes per game
2017/18 Wolves... 9 players over 16 minutes per game
2018/19 Wolves...16 players over 13 minutes per game (minimum 19 games. This year they nhad more players run through this team than most)
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/thiboto99c.html

A career huh?

Benching Nate Robinson....I think you are thinking of Mike D'Antoni.

Nate played 1 season in Chicago (2012/2013), played in 82 games, started 23, and averaged over 25 minutes per game.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robinna01.html

You are crying about the Knicks rotation when the Raptors played 7 guys....

Listen...the Knicks bench sucks. Toppin hasn't done anything in his time other than highlight dunks and corner 3's. As of now, Deuce is a defensive sub. Rose is 34, lost a step, is not a good fit with how these Knicks play (their pace is faster, their defense is their calling card. Not ideal for this version of Derrick Rose). Sims is currently a poor man's Mitch. People cried to get Fournier out of the rotation now they cry he isn't in the rotation.

The Knicks bench beside Quickley, is a mish mosh of one dimensional role players. They don't go 9 deep. Hell 9th men on good, not great, but good teams would slot in as our #7.

My humble opinion....Thibs plays the starters less minutes, this isn't a game.

Coach Thibs game rotation says different in each of those seasons u mention.
Celtics coach Doc Rivers and the BIG-3 win a championship, and the Bulls hire Celtics assistant coach Thibs as the Bulls head coach.
Coach Thibs first time as an NBA head coach inherited a Bulls playoff roster.
Thibs coached Deng and Hinrich and D.Rose into injury-prone careers.
Thibs tried to do the same with Carlos Boozer, but Boozer came to the Bulls having his own rules by refusing to play above 30 minutes a game the first half of the regular season.
It was Boozer then Butler's 2-Way dynamics that took coach Thibs pass the first round of the playoffs.

So the hard numbers say different. I have presented you with evidence, and it is brushed away.

Did Thibs coach them to injury prone careers? Rose's injury was not an over use injury.

Kirk had a 12 year NBA career. Played for Thibs at the age of 32-34, averaging 29 mpg his fist 2 seasons and 24 mpg his last season. while playing in no more than 60, 61, and 22 games respectively. before playing for Fred Hiberg, then Atlanta his last 2 seasons. Sounds like Hoiberg had a natural decline to me. (6 years post Thibs)
Deng played alot of minutes in between 2012 and 2014-age 25 to 28- (averaged about 39 per game), the n proceeded to play the next 7 years with minutes incrementally decreasing from 33.8 (28), 33.6(29), 32.4(30), 26.5(31), 1 game in 2017/2018 (32), and 17.8 minutes in his final season (33). He also played in and started 40 games for Cleveland after his trade (63 games total), 72 games, 74 games, 56 games, 22 in his final season.
That is a long freaking career (7 yeats post Thibs).

And just for ****s and giggles, a reddit post dicussing this topic with some info from Deng in particular from 8 years ago...
Thibs minutes reddit

Boozer, everything I read was pissed because Thibs wasn't playing him enough minutes....Thibs was benching him the the 4th quarters....
Boozer/Thibs minutes search

Boozer also started every game he played in Chicago, played his least amount of games his first 2 seasons there (was he tired just from signing his contract with the Bulls while Thibs was there?) and never actually played a full season, although he came close his last 2 seasons.
In his Chicago Bulls playoff career, Boozer averaged 13 points and 9 rebounds. (Averaged 20 and 12 in the playoffs in Utah).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boozeca01.html

I would bet Derrick Rose with his career CHICAGO playoff averages of 23, 5 and 7 had more to do with Chicago's success in the playoffs during the Boozer years (minus the year he was hurt), than Boozer did.
Rose

You talking facts, actual data and recorded numbers with Kemet?
Guy is what you call a wall troll.