fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Randle goes one 1-8 from three and Grimes goes 3-5. I know Randle is above criticism on this forum so I won't point to the obvious. But Grimes needs more shots when he's hitting.

actually the opposite. We can survive a **** shooting night from Randle. We have other guys and he does other things.

He's obviously important but I dont feel like this is Randle's team. It's Thibs team

I mean, we did come close to losing and the reason for a lot of that was due to a lack of situational awareness. Also missed free throws, botched defensive assignments etc. If this Thibs team, then maybe he needs to do a better job of pointing these things out. I'm not trying to turn this into a fire Thibs thread, but these fourth quarter meltdowns have become a trend.

BigDaddyG wrote:

VDesai wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Randle goes one 1-8 from three and Grimes goes 3-5. I know Randle is above criticism on this forum so I won't point to the obvious. But Grimes needs more shots when he's hitting.

Good post.
Been saying all year Randle needs to cut down on threes. May be cuz his job is to keep middle open when JB has it going but no reason to take so many contested threes.
Grimes needs more set plays where we get him running through picks. Feel he will be good at either hitting the three or taking advantage of the chasing defender.

He had a couple clanks, but sometimes it feels like Randle has the most in an outs on 3's in the league. That said he is averaging 7.6 attempts per game this year - 2 more per game than the last 2 yrs when he average around 5.5 and only making 34%. He has been quite efficient - around 56% on his 2's and getting to the 7.2 times per game- 1.2 more than his 2020 career year.

I get all of that. But he wasn't hitting last night and Grimes was. This isn't necessarily Randle's fault, but I think the team needed to do a better job or recognizing who was hitting from three. And by the team, I really mean Thibs.

Do you really mean that? During a particular game?

I think Grimes will get more shots over the course of the year and as the season goes on and that's what a coach is responsible for. But I don't think coaches literally control games that much.

Like which best player on any team does the coach tell to shoot particularly less for a game when he doesn't have it going on?

Monster game by Brunson with a career high of 38/7/6! He's so much fun to watch with his iso's and footwork, especially when he's doing it against bigger guys. He had Sochan on skates!

Randle continues his redemption tour! His improvement in effort this season has been nothing short of amazing! He would never have dared to chase down blocks last season! He's really engaged right now and it's been a pleasure to see! Really hope he can keep it up!

We got exactly what we needed from Grimes and IQ but RJ really needs to hurry back! I cannot stomach watching Fournier anymore. He's so brutal defensively and really provides nothing if he's not hitting shots. Robinson also needs to wake up! That's two games he's played half asleep!

BigDaddyG wrote:

VDesai wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Randle goes one 1-8 from three and Grimes goes 3-5. I know Randle is above criticism on this forum so I won't point to the obvious. But Grimes needs more shots when he's hitting.

Good post.
Been saying all year Randle needs to cut down on threes. May be cuz his job is to keep middle open when JB has it going but no reason to take so many contested threes.
Grimes needs more set plays where we get him running through picks. Feel he will be good at either hitting the three or taking advantage of the chasing defender.

He had a couple clanks, but sometimes it feels like Randle has the most in an outs on 3's in the league. That said he is averaging 7.6 attempts per game this year - 2 more per game than the last 2 yrs when he average around 5.5 and only making 34%. He has been quite efficient - around 56% on his 2's and getting to the 7.2 times per game- 1.2 more than his 2020 career year.

I get all of that. But he wasn't hitting last night and Grimes was. This isn't necessarily Randle's fault, but I think the team needed to do a better job or recognizing who was hitting from three. And by the team, I really mean Thibs.

I hear you but a lot of Julius's shots looked good leaving his hand. I have the same exact reaction with RJ though RJ sometimes keeps chucking when he ain't even close

regardless Grimes needs more shots. And i can't wait until IQ starts getting it going too

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Randle goes one 1-8 from three and Grimes goes 3-5. I know Randle is above criticism on this forum so I won't point to the obvious. But Grimes needs more shots when he's hitting.

actually the opposite. We can survive a **** shooting night from Randle. We have other guys and he does other things.

He's obviously important but I dont feel like this is Randle's team. It's Thibs team

I mean, we did come close to losing and the reason for a lot of that was due to a lack of situational awareness. Also missed free throws, botched defensive assignments etc. If this Thibs team, then maybe he needs to do a better job of pointing these things out. I'm not trying to turn this into a fire Thibs thread, but these fourth quarter meltdowns have become a trend.

Those are growing pains. Missing shots, situational awareness, end of game execution... how is that coaching? That's experience. Winning is something that Randle also has limited experience with. Brunson's the only one with any legit playoff experience (much less success).

Our rotation is 24 years old and the most "veteran" guy we have didnt have a winning season until he played for Thibs.

What does inexperience look like to you? We have Fournier/Rose on the bench and Grimes/IQ on the floor in crunchtime. Literally the areas that will hurt us are the things you listed above.

Its one thing to make excuses, but these players and this team are going to make mistakes. We are not a championship team but there is surely some talent emerging worth looking at and we have also seen some flashes of chemistry improving as well. All these guys (Randle included) need experience in meaninful games. This is what's going to make us better the fastest.

RJ/Grimes are 22, IQ is 23. I know RJ feels like he's older but he's not. He's gonna get better at things because he works to get better. IQ came in as a shooter. Now he's a do-all combo guard who's a streaky shooter. Grimes really reminds me of Starks. Shoots 3s, attacks the rim, his a nice drive and dish game and plays D like if he doesnt he's bagging groceries.

TLDR~ you are gonna see mistakes but I think this group of players are coach are worth being patient with

We shall see.

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Randle goes one 1-8 from three and Grimes goes 3-5. I know Randle is above criticism on this forum so I won't point to the obvious. But Grimes needs more shots when he's hitting.

actually the opposite. We can survive a **** shooting night from Randle. We have other guys and he does other things.

He's obviously important but I dont feel like this is Randle's team. It's Thibs team

I mean, we did come close to losing and the reason for a lot of that was due to a lack of situational awareness. Also missed free throws, botched defensive assignments etc. If this Thibs team, then maybe he needs to do a better job of pointing these things out. I'm not trying to turn this into a fire Thibs thread, but these fourth quarter meltdowns have become a trend.

Those are growing pains. Missing shots, situational awareness, end of game execution... how is that coaching? That's experience. Winning is something that Randle also has limited experience with. Brunson's the only one with any legit playoff experience (much less success).

Our rotation is 24 years old and the most "veteran" guy we have didnt have a winning season until he played for Thibs.

What does inexperience look like to you? We have Fournier/Rose on the bench and Grimes/IQ on the floor in crunchtime. Literally the areas that will hurt us are the things you listed above.

Its one thing to make excuses, but these players and this team are going to make mistakes. We are not a championship team but there is surely some talent emerging worth looking at and we have also seen some flashes of chemistry improving as well. All these guys (Randle included) need experience in meaninful games. This is what's going to make us better the fastest.

RJ/Grimes are 22, IQ is 23. I know RJ feels like he's older but he's not. He's gonna get better at things because he works to get better. IQ came in as a shooter. Now he's a do-all combo guard who's a streaky shooter. Grimes really reminds me of Starks. Shoots 3s, attacks the rim, his a nice drive and dish game and plays D like if he doesnt he's bagging groceries.

TLDR~ you are gonna see mistakes but I think this group of players are coach are worth being patient with

We shall see.

I can live with patience because it's not so much about Randle/Brunson. They are very good players, and Randle's willingness to give up the ball puts him in the "keeper" column for me. Its about RJ/Grimes/IQ/Mitch and how good these guys can be as individuals and together.

While we are patient with that we have a solid chest of picks/assets/flexibility to work with as well

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

VDesai wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Randle goes one 1-8 from three and Grimes goes 3-5. I know Randle is above criticism on this forum so I won't point to the obvious. But Grimes needs more shots when he's hitting.

Good post.
Been saying all year Randle needs to cut down on threes. May be cuz his job is to keep middle open when JB has it going but no reason to take so many contested threes.
Grimes needs more set plays where we get him running through picks. Feel he will be good at either hitting the three or taking advantage of the chasing defender.

He had a couple clanks, but sometimes it feels like Randle has the most in an outs on 3's in the league. That said he is averaging 7.6 attempts per game this year - 2 more per game than the last 2 yrs when he average around 5.5 and only making 34%. He has been quite efficient - around 56% on his 2's and getting to the 7.2 times per game- 1.2 more than his 2020 career year.

I get all of that. But he wasn't hitting last night and Grimes was. This isn't necessarily Randle's fault, but I think the team needed to do a better job or recognizing who was hitting from three. And by the team, I really mean Thibs.

Do you really mean that? During a particular game?

I think Grimes will get more shots over the course of the year and as the season goes on and that's what a coach is responsible for. But I don't think coaches literally control games that much.

Like which best player on any team does the coach tell to shoot particularly less for a game when he doesn't have it going on?

Yeah, I do. If a hear coach isn't pointing these things during the course of the game, then what is doing? If the players aren't seeing it then the coach is the one that needs to tell the players to feed the hot hand.

On any given night, across the whole league, there are super stars and all stars and regular players who are having not good shooting nights.

Under your assumptions (and maybe you don't mean it this way), why aren't those coaches - and this will include every coach in the league - telling their players about not shooting the ball more?

You'd think this was a problem to be solved a long time ago if it were that easy.

I think you can get on guys about the types of shots they are taking and about finding ways to win. Letting the ball find energy.

Grimes will get his, just a matter of time.

My problem isn't with Randle taking shots. It's the type of shots. He's 1-8 from three. At some point, I do feel a coach has to gently remind there players what the best path to success is. I do believe this goes on every night. Talent determines the outcome in the end, but I don't believe this was the case last night. We did have a guy who was hitting from outside and you can make a strong case that some of those threes should have gone to him. It's possible that Thibs did tell the team this and they tuned him out. I can't pretend to know what goes on inside the huddle. I'm happy for the win, but the fact the Grimes was cooking from three and only got 5 shots bothers me. It'd be easier to let go of they weren't close to blowing another game. Hopefully things improve as the season goes on.

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

VDesai wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Randle goes one 1-8 from three and Grimes goes 3-5. I know Randle is above criticism on this forum so I won't point to the obvious. But Grimes needs more shots when he's hitting.

Good post.
Been saying all year Randle needs to cut down on threes. May be cuz his job is to keep middle open when JB has it going but no reason to take so many contested threes.
Grimes needs more set plays where we get him running through picks. Feel he will be good at either hitting the three or taking advantage of the chasing defender.

He had a couple clanks, but sometimes it feels like Randle has the most in an outs on 3's in the league. That said he is averaging 7.6 attempts per game this year - 2 more per game than the last 2 yrs when he average around 5.5 and only making 34%. He has been quite efficient - around 56% on his 2's and getting to the 7.2 times per game- 1.2 more than his 2020 career year.

I get all of that. But he wasn't hitting last night and Grimes was. This isn't necessarily Randle's fault, but I think the team needed to do a better job or recognizing who was hitting from three. And by the team, I really mean Thibs.

Do you really mean that? During a particular game?

I think Grimes will get more shots over the course of the year and as the season goes on and that's what a coach is responsible for. But I don't think coaches literally control games that much.

Like which best player on any team does the coach tell to shoot particularly less for a game when he doesn't have it going on?

Yeah, I do. If a hear coach isn't pointing these things during the course of the game, then what is doing? If the players aren't seeing it then the coach is the one that needs to tell the players to feed the hot hand.

On any given night, across the whole league, there are super stars and all stars and regular players who are having not good shooting nights.

Under your assumptions (and maybe you don't mean it this way), why aren't those coaches - and this will include every coach in the league - telling their players about not shooting the ball more?

You'd think this was a problem to be solved a long time ago if it were that easy.

I think you can get on guys about the types of shots they are taking and about finding ways to win. Letting the ball find energy.

Grimes will get his, just a matter of time.

My problem isn't with Randle taking shots. It's the type of shots. He's 1-8 from three. At some point, I do feel a coach has to gently remind there players what the best path to success is. I do believe this goes on every night. Talent determines the outcome in the end, but I don't believe this was the case last night. We did have a guy who was hitting from outside and you can make a strong case that some of those threes should have gone to him. It's possible that Thibs did tell the team this and they tuned him out. I can't pretend to know what goes on inside the huddle. I'm happy for the win, but the fact the Grimes was cooking from three and only got 5 shots bothers me. It'd be easier to let go of they weren't close to blowing another game. Hopefully things improve as the season goes on.

If only Riley listened to you in '94.

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Randle goes one 1-8 from three and Grimes goes 3-5. I know Randle is above criticism on this forum so I won't point to the obvious. But Grimes needs more shots when he's hitting.

actually the opposite. We can survive a **** shooting night from Randle. We have other guys and he does other things.

He's obviously important but I dont feel like this is Randle's team. It's Thibs team

I mean, we did come close to losing and the reason for a lot of that was due to a lack of situational awareness. Also missed free throws, botched defensive assignments etc. If this Thibs team, then maybe he needs to do a better job of pointing these things out. I'm not trying to turn this into a fire Thibs thread, but these fourth quarter meltdowns have become a trend.

Those are growing pains. Missing shots, situational awareness, end of game execution... how is that coaching? That's experience. Winning is something that Randle also has limited experience with. Brunson's the only one with any legit playoff experience (much less success).

Our rotation is 24 years old and the most "veteran" guy we have didnt have a winning season until he played for Thibs.

What does inexperience look like to you? We have Fournier/Rose on the bench and Grimes/IQ on the floor in crunchtime. Literally the areas that will hurt us are the things you listed above.

Its one thing to make excuses, but these players and this team are going to make mistakes. We are not a championship team but there is surely some talent emerging worth looking at and we have also seen some flashes of chemistry improving as well. All these guys (Randle included) need experience in meaninful games. This is what's going to make us better the fastest.

RJ/Grimes are 22, IQ is 23. I know RJ feels like he's older but he's not. He's gonna get better at things because he works to get better. IQ came in as a shooter. Now he's a do-all combo guard who's a streaky shooter. Grimes really reminds me of Starks. Shoots 3s, attacks the rim, his a nice drive and dish game and plays D like if he doesnt he's bagging groceries.

TLDR~ you are gonna see mistakes but I think this group of players are coach are worth being patient with

I am not sure that the end of game stuff is an inexperience issue. We have had this issue the entire time under Thibs and we had a lot of veterans in the rotation last year. IN 2020, end of game management wasn't as big an issue as we had Derrick Rose playing phenomenal basketball, rarely turning it over, hitting FTs, clutch shots etc. and Randle was at full confidence. Last year we were an epic disaster. It was a playoff quality team that blew many many games in the 4th q that they shouldn't have. We have seen instances of it this year, and I thought it wouldn't be as bad because had a clutch shotmaker in Brunson.

To me its not about the players. For some reason we completely abandon the offense and go to slow ISO, no ball movement and we get bad shots down the stretch. If we're lucky we draw a foul, but we're too tight to hit our FTs. These are veterans like Randle and Brunson missing FTs as well as a guy like Grimes. We are a nervous team more than an inexperienced team down the stretch of games.