GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Ok. Trade proposal:
Chicago trades peak Scottie Pippen for Randle.
Who says no? Why?

LA Trades still dangerous LeBron to NY, making Randle being clutch less necessary with the GOAT as the number one option.

Pippen+GOAT(Jordan)= Championship

Randle+GOAT(LBJ)= ????

Ive said that if we can keep Randle and add James, and leave a roster good enough to contend, I hope the FO goes for it. Otherwise, I'd like to see the FO try that formula with another player.

To answer your question about a 4th option. Im mostly talking about crunch time, not touches. A team could have a very clutch 6th man ahead of Randle in those situations. Not necessarily putting up better numbers.

Please answer the essence of the question.
Is there any reason why championship Jordan teams would do worse with Randle as #2?

You cant handle the truth!

You need Pippen on that wall!!

OK, maybe not. But you need the greatest basketball player, playoff performer, in NBA history, in this hypothetical, to make your argument. Which was what I was getting at.

Those championship Bulls teams were a well oiled machine. Everyone knew their role and performed them at a high level, consistently. I honestly dont know if Randle could do the consistency part.

In fairness, Ron Harper took some time to become that player in Chicago. But I honestly cant venture a guess. that franchise really had its act together. Even when they were fighting lol. They found a way to make things work.

Forget Jordan.
Why are you going to such lengths NOT to answer the question.
Why is Pippen a better #2 than Randle? Which facet of the game?

What a buzzkill..

This is some fantasy sports/time travel scenario, Im supposed to solve??

You are upset that Im not answering the question exactly the way you want me to. For me to do that, I would have to accept the premise of a current player whose game is the result (in part) of 25+ years of BBall evolution. Going back in time, and then comparing individual stats.

Not factor at all in how Randle would respond to a completely different team, situation, as a human being. Not to mention your premise involves the best player of all time, which will skew the results, to say the least.

My answer is I dont know if Pippen is a better fit. There are too many variables. Not just about stats, or a player's game. Or you could plug in any 20/10 player next to Jordan.

The Pippen led Bulls took us to the limit in 93-94, as the number one option. Could Randle have done the same? Since we're going off on a tangent..

Here's some history: Julius has a higher efg% (.544/.529p) rebs (09.9/8.9) and assts (3.8/3.4) than Dirk Nowitzki in his MVP year (both age 28/9th season). Dirk averaged more points (24.6 vs. 24.2). If Dirk can win a championship, I'm sure it's possible for Randle as well. It's all about team building.

As far as wanting a "no. 1", who are the guys that fit your criteria?

KD
LBJ
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Kawhi
Tatum
Morant
Butler
Booker
Paul George

anyone else?

Why cherry pick seasons. Anyone who sees this will naturally want to see how both players compare for their careers. Once they do they'll see that one is a HOFer and the other is a guy who's had a couple of good seasons intermingled with a bunch of underwhelming ones.

Good point. They ask why I would be OK with a Randle trade now. Because I didnt want to trade him when he was playing poorly, and we would have received little in return. Because you dont know which player we will be getting from season to season. Because Randle hasnt shown an ability to be clutch, after so many years in the league. Im not expecting that to change at this point in his career.

They talk about going back in time 25 years and comparing him to a player with 6 rings, just on stats. Its crazy, no one is untouchable.

⁴
Quote "Lmao.
The new go to Randle hate. "He is not clutch"
First it was:
20/10s are meaningless.
He was not in the team huddle.
He doesn't play defense.
He has too many spin TO's
He does not pass.
He does not handle double teams well.
He is not liked by teammates.
He loses control of emotions.
Told fans to **** off."

Edit.
He is not as good as Dirk.
Trade him because he is better than last year and playing like an All Star again.

Randle per 36 for entire career 21/10.7/4.1

Thank you Ron DeSantis. Just substitute "hate" with "woke". Same style, or lack thereof.

I dont know what makes you believe that even the suggestion of trading Randle merits this passionate a response, and frankly I dont care. You're not defending Randle like this when he's playing poorly are you? Only someone who believes Randle is untradeable would be reacting this obnoxiously.

Thats it, you believe Randle is untradeable.

TBH posts and analogies bringing politics into the discussion pretty much suck the life out of this forum. You must be reading a different thread because no one here is saying Randle is untradeable. What they are reacting to is the relative lack of logical rational used by posters like you for wanting to "dump"(sorry - trade) Randle. It really makes no sense without understanding the return or the roadmap towards success. As I posted previously - just dumping Randle in order to tank does not equate to success. As such - just seems like you have a visceral negativity about Randle that is driving the desire to move him really without logical reasoning. If not that, why would you not also want to move on from Brunson and RJ who both are taking up similar cap space ranges and have no long term resume of success?

A posting style reminiscent of absolutist, closed minded, politicians, are sucking the life out of this forum. And those who enable them. Who label posters they disagree with as "haters". We're all overgrown kids here to some degree, arguing about hoops as much as we do. But the liberal use of that expression, is particularly childish.

One thing you will find in this thread are criticisms from the entire board about Randle, but all being attributed to me as having stated this season as a reason to trade him. You just added that I want to trade Randle, and tank on this list.

Please produce one post where I said that..ever. This is the straight from politics BS that some of you are trafficking in, but seem to have a problem with my calling out.

Even after Randle's big let down of a season. After Brunson was signed, while the entire board was advocating, or accepted Randle having a greatly reduced role, when it came to initiating the offense. I was writing that Randle still should have a role in starting a fastbreak, bringing up the ball, setting up the offense. Where was that "visceral hate" then? Would love to hear that explanation.

Its not complicated. The season started and I came to the conclusion that there was enough evidence that Randle, while showing All-Star potential, isnt reliable enough to have the role in the team's success that he does. No "hate" no animosity, I just decided that if the opportunity to get a good return on a trade involving Randle arises, then the FO should go for it. Thats it

If you believe Randle is tradeable then thats what we should be talking about. Not this drama about my motivation.

You're right in that we are all overgrown kids arguing and debating. Not sure where you've been or if you forgot your big boy pants - but that's the nature of Sports Fan Forums - which can get testy and where motivation is called out on the carpet when positions and comments are not backed-up.

Perhaps the issue is that you get defensive when challenged on an opinion you offer which is made with little logical reasoning. Without backup then the debate moves to motivation.

You've stated that you want to trade Randle because he "Isn't Reliable Enough". That's a pretty vague rationale and becomes a really muddy position for other forum readers that naturally leads to other questions and given that he is performing at a high level - suspicions of motivation. How does his reliability compare to other players on the Knicks and comparable players in the league? What is a good return? Why would you trade a player that is All Star caliber when other players on the team have reliability questions as well? Why do you not think he can have a role in the team's success? What is your view of a roadmap to success? Who are you replacing him with? How reliable is that player?

I dont believe making up BS about what I wrote, and the first and last word out of a poster being "hater".To be an example of "having your big boy pants on". Quite the contrary I see it as an example of posters who need their diapers changed.

Where has Randle taken this team since joining the Knicks? How many playoff wins? How many rings?
What has he done as a player for you to feel so strongly that trading Randle is such a bad idea? I dont just judge a player on stats when they're playing well. Thats so damned easy to do. I dont see a player that I trust to play at a high level consistently. Do you see it from season to season, or only in spots?

Will add this to the Gustav reasons for trading Randle.
Where has 95% of the top players in the league "taken their teams"?

You mean you "don't judge a player on stats"? No ****?
It's obvious to judge a player or prudent trade in stats, market value, proposed return, level of improvement, or how that makes a team better. At least you are getting closer to why you are wrong.

You child, you bolded half the sentence to put it in a completely different context. I dont just judge a player on stats when they're playing well. Like your bandwagoning ass. I look at the times when he's playing poorly as well.

This is a joke, I've been a few steps ahead of you on what precisely Randle brings to the table, every step of the way. You've got no business doing your crazy Randle superfan act on me.

Children lose their **** on a fan forum. They rarely use facts to back their points. They just get upset and put out statements like "
I don't judge a player PLAYING WELL just on stats. I look at the times when he is playing poorly as well?" Is that what you said?

That's some funny ****. So you look for the bad and ignore the good. You make up your own criteria for when a player should be traded.
I knew you agreed with me!

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Ok. Trade proposal:
Chicago trades peak Scottie Pippen for Randle.
Who says no? Why?

LA Trades still dangerous LeBron to NY, making Randle being clutch less necessary with the GOAT as the number one option.

Pippen+GOAT(Jordan)= Championship

Randle+GOAT(LBJ)= ????

Ive said that if we can keep Randle and add James, and leave a roster good enough to contend, I hope the FO goes for it. Otherwise, I'd like to see the FO try that formula with another player.

To answer your question about a 4th option. Im mostly talking about crunch time, not touches. A team could have a very clutch 6th man ahead of Randle in those situations. Not necessarily putting up better numbers.

Please answer the essence of the question.
Is there any reason why championship Jordan teams would do worse with Randle as #2?

You cant handle the truth!

You need Pippen on that wall!!

OK, maybe not. But you need the greatest basketball player, playoff performer, in NBA history, in this hypothetical, to make your argument. Which was what I was getting at.

Those championship Bulls teams were a well oiled machine. Everyone knew their role and performed them at a high level, consistently. I honestly dont know if Randle could do the consistency part.

In fairness, Ron Harper took some time to become that player in Chicago. But I honestly cant venture a guess. that franchise really had its act together. Even when they were fighting lol. They found a way to make things work.

Forget Jordan.
Why are you going to such lengths NOT to answer the question.
Why is Pippen a better #2 than Randle? Which facet of the game?

What a buzzkill..

This is some fantasy sports/time travel scenario, Im supposed to solve??

You are upset that Im not answering the question exactly the way you want me to. For me to do that, I would have to accept the premise of a current player whose game is the result (in part) of 25+ years of BBall evolution. Going back in time, and then comparing individual stats.

Not factor at all in how Randle would respond to a completely different team, situation, as a human being. Not to mention your premise involves the best player of all time, which will skew the results, to say the least.

My answer is I dont know if Pippen is a better fit. There are too many variables. Not just about stats, or a player's game. Or you could plug in any 20/10 player next to Jordan.

The Pippen led Bulls took us to the limit in 93-94, as the number one option. Could Randle have done the same? Since we're going off on a tangent..

Here's some history: Julius has a higher efg% (.544/.529p) rebs (09.9/8.9) and assts (3.8/3.4) than Dirk Nowitzki in his MVP year (both age 28/9th season). Dirk averaged more points (24.6 vs. 24.2). If Dirk can win a championship, I'm sure it's possible for Randle as well. It's all about team building.

As far as wanting a "no. 1", who are the guys that fit your criteria?

KD
LBJ
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Kawhi
Tatum
Morant
Butler
Booker
Paul George

anyone else?

Why cherry pick seasons. Anyone who sees this will naturally want to see how both players compare for their careers. Once they do they'll see that one is a HOFer and the other is a guy who's had a couple of good seasons intermingled with a bunch of underwhelming ones.

Good point. They ask why I would be OK with a Randle trade now. Because I didnt want to trade him when he was playing poorly, and we would have received little in return. Because you dont know which player we will be getting from season to season. Because Randle hasnt shown an ability to be clutch, after so many years in the league. Im not expecting that to change at this point in his career.

They talk about going back in time 25 years and comparing him to a player with 6 rings, just on stats. Its crazy, no one is untouchable.

⁴
Quote "Lmao.
The new go to Randle hate. "He is not clutch"
First it was:
20/10s are meaningless.
He was not in the team huddle.
He doesn't play defense.
He has too many spin TO's
He does not pass.
He does not handle double teams well.
He is not liked by teammates.
He loses control of emotions.
Told fans to **** off."

Edit.
He is not as good as Dirk.
Trade him because he is better than last year and playing like an All Star again.

Randle per 36 for entire career 21/10.7/4.1

Thank you Ron DeSantis. Just substitute "hate" with "woke". Same style, or lack thereof.

I dont know what makes you believe that even the suggestion of trading Randle merits this passionate a response, and frankly I dont care. You're not defending Randle like this when he's playing poorly are you? Only someone who believes Randle is untradeable would be reacting this obnoxiously.

Thats it, you believe Randle is untradeable.

TBH posts and analogies bringing politics into the discussion pretty much suck the life out of this forum. You must be reading a different thread because no one here is saying Randle is untradeable. What they are reacting to is the relative lack of logical rational used by posters like you for wanting to "dump"(sorry - trade) Randle. It really makes no sense without understanding the return or the roadmap towards success. As I posted previously - just dumping Randle in order to tank does not equate to success. As such - just seems like you have a visceral negativity about Randle that is driving the desire to move him really without logical reasoning. If not that, why would you not also want to move on from Brunson and RJ who both are taking up similar cap space ranges and have no long term resume of success?

A posting style reminiscent of absolutist, closed minded, politicians, are sucking the life out of this forum. And those who enable them. Who label posters they disagree with as "haters". We're all overgrown kids here to some degree, arguing about hoops as much as we do. But the liberal use of that expression, is particularly childish.

One thing you will find in this thread are criticisms from the entire board about Randle, but all being attributed to me as having stated this season as a reason to trade him. You just added that I want to trade Randle, and tank on this list.

Please produce one post where I said that..ever. This is the straight from politics BS that some of you are trafficking in, but seem to have a problem with my calling out.

Even after Randle's big let down of a season. After Brunson was signed, while the entire board was advocating, or accepted Randle having a greatly reduced role, when it came to initiating the offense. I was writing that Randle still should have a role in starting a fastbreak, bringing up the ball, setting up the offense. Where was that "visceral hate" then? Would love to hear that explanation.

Its not complicated. The season started and I came to the conclusion that there was enough evidence that Randle, while showing All-Star potential, isnt reliable enough to have the role in the team's success that he does. No "hate" no animosity, I just decided that if the opportunity to get a good return on a trade involving Randle arises, then the FO should go for it. Thats it

If you believe Randle is tradeable then thats what we should be talking about. Not this drama about my motivation.

You're right in that we are all overgrown kids arguing and debating. Not sure where you've been or if you forgot your big boy pants - but that's the nature of Sports Fan Forums - which can get testy and where motivation is called out on the carpet when positions and comments are not backed-up.

Perhaps the issue is that you get defensive when challenged on an opinion you offer which is made with little logical reasoning. Without backup then the debate moves to motivation.

You've stated that you want to trade Randle because he "Isn't Reliable Enough". That's a pretty vague rationale and becomes a really muddy position for other forum readers that naturally leads to other questions and given that he is performing at a high level - suspicions of motivation. How does his reliability compare to other players on the Knicks and comparable players in the league? What is a good return? Why would you trade a player that is All Star caliber when other players on the team have reliability questions as well? Why do you not think he can have a role in the team's success? What is your view of a roadmap to success? Who are you replacing him with? How reliable is that player?

I dont believe making up BS about what I wrote, and the first and last word out of a poster being "hater".To be an example of "having your big boy pants on". Quite the contrary I see it as an example of posters who need their diapers changed.

Where has Randle taken this team since joining the Knicks? How many playoff wins? How many rings?
What has he done as a player for you to feel so strongly that trading Randle is such a bad idea? I dont just judge a player on stats when they're playing well. Thats so damned easy to do. I dont see a player that I trust to play at a high level consistently. Do you see it from season to season, or only in spots?

Will add this to the Gustav reasons for trading Randle.
Where has 95% of the top players in the league "taken their teams"?

You mean you "don't judge a player on stats"? No ****?
It's obvious to judge a player or prudent trade in stats, market value, proposed return, level of improvement, or how that makes a team better. At least you are getting closer to why you are wrong.

You child, you bolded half the sentence to put it in a completely different context. I dont just judge a player on stats when they're playing well. Like your bandwagoning ass. I look at the times when he's playing poorly as well.

This is a joke, I've been a few steps ahead of you on what precisely Randle brings to the table, every step of the way. You've got no business doing your crazy Randle superfan act on me.

Children lose their **** on a fan forum. They rarely use facts to back their points. They just get upset and put out statements like "
I don't judge a player PLAYING WELL just on stats. I look at the times when he is playing poorly as well?" Is that what you said?

That's some funny ****. So you look for the bad and ignore the good. You make up your own criteria for when a player should be traded.
Isn't that exactly what I am saying.

Posters who cant handle opposing views who resort to incessantly calling others "haters" isnt keeping it together.

Now you dont want to take what Ive written out of context, what a guy.

What part of I dont believe Randle's skills overcomes his career long lack of consistency did you miss? Its been central to everything Ive said on the matter. You're doing the internet equivalent of covering your ears and screaming "na,na,na, I'm not listening."

You disagree fine, but stop pretending like I dont know what Randle brings to the table. Cause it was crickets, when I was saying then, what you're saying now. Stop trying to make my reasons for being open to a trade more than about BBall. Its divisive and makes for a lousy discussion.

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Ok. Trade proposal:
Chicago trades peak Scottie Pippen for Randle.
Who says no? Why?

LA Trades still dangerous LeBron to NY, making Randle being clutch less necessary with the GOAT as the number one option.

Pippen+GOAT(Jordan)= Championship

Randle+GOAT(LBJ)= ????

Ive said that if we can keep Randle and add James, and leave a roster good enough to contend, I hope the FO goes for it. Otherwise, I'd like to see the FO try that formula with another player.

To answer your question about a 4th option. Im mostly talking about crunch time, not touches. A team could have a very clutch 6th man ahead of Randle in those situations. Not necessarily putting up better numbers.

Please answer the essence of the question.
Is there any reason why championship Jordan teams would do worse with Randle as #2?

You cant handle the truth!

You need Pippen on that wall!!

OK, maybe not. But you need the greatest basketball player, playoff performer, in NBA history, in this hypothetical, to make your argument. Which was what I was getting at.

Those championship Bulls teams were a well oiled machine. Everyone knew their role and performed them at a high level, consistently. I honestly dont know if Randle could do the consistency part.

In fairness, Ron Harper took some time to become that player in Chicago. But I honestly cant venture a guess. that franchise really had its act together. Even when they were fighting lol. They found a way to make things work.

Forget Jordan.
Why are you going to such lengths NOT to answer the question.
Why is Pippen a better #2 than Randle? Which facet of the game?

What a buzzkill..

This is some fantasy sports/time travel scenario, Im supposed to solve??

You are upset that Im not answering the question exactly the way you want me to. For me to do that, I would have to accept the premise of a current player whose game is the result (in part) of 25+ years of BBall evolution. Going back in time, and then comparing individual stats.

Not factor at all in how Randle would respond to a completely different team, situation, as a human being. Not to mention your premise involves the best player of all time, which will skew the results, to say the least.

My answer is I dont know if Pippen is a better fit. There are too many variables. Not just about stats, or a player's game. Or you could plug in any 20/10 player next to Jordan.

The Pippen led Bulls took us to the limit in 93-94, as the number one option. Could Randle have done the same? Since we're going off on a tangent..

Here's some history: Julius has a higher efg% (.544/.529p) rebs (09.9/8.9) and assts (3.8/3.4) than Dirk Nowitzki in his MVP year (both age 28/9th season). Dirk averaged more points (24.6 vs. 24.2). If Dirk can win a championship, I'm sure it's possible for Randle as well. It's all about team building.

As far as wanting a "no. 1", who are the guys that fit your criteria?

KD
LBJ
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Kawhi
Tatum
Morant
Butler
Booker
Paul George

anyone else?

Why cherry pick seasons. Anyone who sees this will naturally want to see how both players compare for their careers. Once they do they'll see that one is a HOFer and the other is a guy who's had a couple of good seasons intermingled with a bunch of underwhelming ones.

Good point. They ask why I would be OK with a Randle trade now. Because I didnt want to trade him when he was playing poorly, and we would have received little in return. Because you dont know which player we will be getting from season to season. Because Randle hasnt shown an ability to be clutch, after so many years in the league. Im not expecting that to change at this point in his career.

They talk about going back in time 25 years and comparing him to a player with 6 rings, just on stats. Its crazy, no one is untouchable.

⁴
Quote "Lmao.
The new go to Randle hate. "He is not clutch"
First it was:
20/10s are meaningless.
He was not in the team huddle.
He doesn't play defense.
He has too many spin TO's
He does not pass.
He does not handle double teams well.
He is not liked by teammates.
He loses control of emotions.
Told fans to **** off."

Edit.
He is not as good as Dirk.
Trade him because he is better than last year and playing like an All Star again.

Randle per 36 for entire career 21/10.7/4.1

Thank you Ron DeSantis. Just substitute "hate" with "woke". Same style, or lack thereof.

I dont know what makes you believe that even the suggestion of trading Randle merits this passionate a response, and frankly I dont care. You're not defending Randle like this when he's playing poorly are you? Only someone who believes Randle is untradeable would be reacting this obnoxiously.

Thats it, you believe Randle is untradeable.

TBH posts and analogies bringing politics into the discussion pretty much suck the life out of this forum. You must be reading a different thread because no one here is saying Randle is untradeable. What they are reacting to is the relative lack of logical rational used by posters like you for wanting to "dump"(sorry - trade) Randle. It really makes no sense without understanding the return or the roadmap towards success. As I posted previously - just dumping Randle in order to tank does not equate to success. As such - just seems like you have a visceral negativity about Randle that is driving the desire to move him really without logical reasoning. If not that, why would you not also want to move on from Brunson and RJ who both are taking up similar cap space ranges and have no long term resume of success?

A posting style reminiscent of absolutist, closed minded, politicians, are sucking the life out of this forum. And those who enable them. Who label posters they disagree with as "haters". We're all overgrown kids here to some degree, arguing about hoops as much as we do. But the liberal use of that expression, is particularly childish.

One thing you will find in this thread are criticisms from the entire board about Randle, but all being attributed to me as having stated this season as a reason to trade him. You just added that I want to trade Randle, and tank on this list.

Please produce one post where I said that..ever. This is the straight from politics BS that some of you are trafficking in, but seem to have a problem with my calling out.

Even after Randle's big let down of a season. After Brunson was signed, while the entire board was advocating, or accepted Randle having a greatly reduced role, when it came to initiating the offense. I was writing that Randle still should have a role in starting a fastbreak, bringing up the ball, setting up the offense. Where was that "visceral hate" then? Would love to hear that explanation.

Its not complicated. The season started and I came to the conclusion that there was enough evidence that Randle, while showing All-Star potential, isnt reliable enough to have the role in the team's success that he does. No "hate" no animosity, I just decided that if the opportunity to get a good return on a trade involving Randle arises, then the FO should go for it. Thats it

If you believe Randle is tradeable then thats what we should be talking about. Not this drama about my motivation.

You're right in that we are all overgrown kids arguing and debating. Not sure where you've been or if you forgot your big boy pants - but that's the nature of Sports Fan Forums - which can get testy and where motivation is called out on the carpet when positions and comments are not backed-up.

Perhaps the issue is that you get defensive when challenged on an opinion you offer which is made with little logical reasoning. Without backup then the debate moves to motivation.

You've stated that you want to trade Randle because he "Isn't Reliable Enough". That's a pretty vague rationale and becomes a really muddy position for other forum readers that naturally leads to other questions and given that he is performing at a high level - suspicions of motivation. How does his reliability compare to other players on the Knicks and comparable players in the league? What is a good return? Why would you trade a player that is All Star caliber when other players on the team have reliability questions as well? Why do you not think he can have a role in the team's success? What is your view of a roadmap to success? Who are you replacing him with? How reliable is that player?

I dont believe making up BS about what I wrote, and the first and last word out of a poster being "hater".To be an example of "having your big boy pants on". Quite the contrary I see it as an example of posters who need their diapers changed.

Where has Randle taken this team since joining the Knicks? How many playoff wins? How many rings?
What has he done as a player for you to feel so strongly that trading Randle is such a bad idea? I dont just judge a player on stats when they're playing well. Thats so damned easy to do. I dont see a player that I trust to play at a high level consistently. Do you see it from season to season, or only in spots?

Will add this to the Gustav reasons for trading Randle.
Where has 95% of the top players in the league "taken their teams"?

You mean you "don't judge a player on stats"? No ****?
It's obvious to judge a player or prudent trade in stats, market value, proposed return, level of improvement, or how that makes a team better. At least you are getting closer to why you are wrong.

You child, you bolded half the sentence to put it in a completely different context. I dont just judge a player on stats when they're playing well. Like your bandwagoning ass. I look at the times when he's playing poorly as well.

This is a joke, I've been a few steps ahead of you on what precisely Randle brings to the table, every step of the way. You've got no business doing your crazy Randle superfan act on me.

Children lose their **** on a fan forum. They rarely use facts to back their points. They just get upset and put out statements like "
I don't judge a player PLAYING WELL just on stats. I look at the times when he is playing poorly as well?" Is that what you said?

That's some funny ****. So you look for the bad and ignore the good. You make up your own criteria for when a player should be traded.
Isn't that exactly what I am saying.

Posters who cant handle opposing views who resort to incessantly calling others "haters" isnt keeping it together.

Now you dont want to take what Ive written out of context, what a guy.

What part of I dont believe Randle's skills overcomes his career long lack of consistency did you miss? Its been central to everything Ive said on the matter. You're doing the internet equivalent of covering your ears and screaming "na,na,na, I'm not listening."

You disagree fine, but stop pretending like I dont know what Randle brings to the table. Cause it was crickets, when I was saying then, what you're saying now. Stop trying to make my reasons for being open to a trade more than about BBall. Its divisive and makes for a lousy discussion.

So you are upset about being called a hater. Okay, My bad. Your not a hater.
Think your strong reaction to this has kept you from reading every stat, fact on why I think we should keep him.
You claim he is not consistent. Okay. What do you call consistent?
I posted his per 36 for entire career. 21.3/10.7/4.1

And once again, "Open to trade" for what/who?
No one here is turning down a trade which includes Randle for a top player.
Only disagreeing with those that were saying that they would trade Randle for scraps or just to give Obi a shot.

When his value was really low (last season) it was suggested to not sell "low" as we would have possibly had to attach a pick to trade him or take back a lesser player (makes sense)... now he's played better and his value has improved so some here (myself) believe it would be good to sell "high." Another poster mentioned that the fans wishing to move Randle are being consistent and I agree with this comment. I've watched him for 3+ seasons and don't trust his play or his mental fortitude/maturity long-term. I also don't think he's the guy you give the ball to at the end of the game and expect to be successful. So why can't we use him to try to upgrade - especially if he's playing so amazing he should have a lot of value around the league right?

My question is what would it have to take for the Randle supporters/fans to decide it would be correct to move on from him and trade him? Next season if he regresses again or gets shut down in the playoffs again? He's a 2nd or 3rd tier star in the role of a #1 star and that is not his fault but it is limiting. Only likely way this works long-term is if a top tier FA star (eg Durant when he's like 35) decides if wants to sign with NY and join the roster. Otherwise it's moving RJ and other young players and riding out Randle as he nears 30. RJ and Randle are decent together and can improve somewhat - but after 3+ seasons it seems clear they are both very good but not team carrying stars.

So while supporters insist we have to explain who the trade would be for otherwise it makes no sense...can anyone explain why if he's so great now why does he not seem to have any reasonable trade value that would make us pause and consider? I hear some say we should consider RJ for OG or a move for Lavine. Those who say we shouldn't consider a Randle trade - can you share what you think his hypothetical value would be currently?

gradyandrew wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Ok. Trade proposal:
Chicago trades peak Scottie Pippen for Randle.
Who says no? Why?

LA Trades still dangerous LeBron to NY, making Randle being clutch less necessary with the GOAT as the number one option.

Pippen+GOAT(Jordan)= Championship

Randle+GOAT(LBJ)= ????

Ive said that if we can keep Randle and add James, and leave a roster good enough to contend, I hope the FO goes for it. Otherwise, I'd like to see the FO try that formula with another player.

To answer your question about a 4th option. Im mostly talking about crunch time, not touches. A team could have a very clutch 6th man ahead of Randle in those situations. Not necessarily putting up better numbers.

Please answer the essence of the question.
Is there any reason why championship Jordan teams would do worse with Randle as #2?

You cant handle the truth!

You need Pippen on that wall!!

OK, maybe not. But you need the greatest basketball player, playoff performer, in NBA history, in this hypothetical, to make your argument. Which was what I was getting at.

Those championship Bulls teams were a well oiled machine. Everyone knew their role and performed them at a high level, consistently. I honestly dont know if Randle could do the consistency part.

In fairness, Ron Harper took some time to become that player in Chicago. But I honestly cant venture a guess. that franchise really had its act together. Even when they were fighting lol. They found a way to make things work.

Forget Jordan.
Why are you going to such lengths NOT to answer the question.
Why is Pippen a better #2 than Randle? Which facet of the game?

What a buzzkill..

This is some fantasy sports/time travel scenario, Im supposed to solve??

You are upset that Im not answering the question exactly the way you want me to. For me to do that, I would have to accept the premise of a current player whose game is the result (in part) of 25+ years of BBall evolution. Going back in time, and then comparing individual stats.

Not factor at all in how Randle would respond to a completely different team, situation, as a human being. Not to mention your premise involves the best player of all time, which will skew the results, to say the least.

My answer is I dont know if Pippen is a better fit. There are too many variables. Not just about stats, or a player's game. Or you could plug in any 20/10 player next to Jordan.

The Pippen led Bulls took us to the limit in 93-94, as the number one option. Could Randle have done the same? Since we're going off on a tangent..

Here's some history: Julius has a higher efg% (.544/.529p) rebs (09.9/8.9) and assts (3.8/3.4) than Dirk Nowitzki in his MVP year (both age 28/9th season). Dirk averaged more points (24.6 vs. 24.2). If Dirk can win a championship, I'm sure it's possible for Randle as well. It's all about team building.

As far as wanting a "no. 1", who are the guys that fit your criteria?

KD
LBJ
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Kawhi
Tatum
Morant
Butler
Booker
Paul George

anyone else?

Why cherry pick seasons. Anyone who sees this will naturally want to see how both players compare for their careers. Once they do they'll see that one is a HOFer and the other is a guy who's had a couple of good seasons intermingled with a bunch of underwhelming ones.

I think the point was Randle near half season is quite good and at a level to appreciate.
He came as a free agent with space created from the KP deal. He has played more and better than KP. He was an upgrade.
As long as he plays to his contract, and he is, we don't lose if he stays or gets traded.

Martin just posted an article from Macri with stats and video that back all that up on it's own. When you make a direct comparison with Dirk, I'm naturally going to see it for what it is. Someone is trying to use a small sample size to try and make us believe Julius is at "Dirk's" level.

Gustav and Big Daddy
Not sure which is worse, your poor reading comprehension, misunderstanding of statistics or disingenuous debate style.

FACT: Randle's numbers this season are identical to Dirk's MVP

There's no "cherry picking" of stats, I made the comparison to highlight the level Randle is playing at now and how ridiculous it would be to trade him.Stats don't lie and are useful to get beyond whatever personal prejudices you have against a player and put it into a historical comparison. You're argument about Randle not being at Dirk's level is false- the numbers tell another story.

Second, both of you failed to advance other players who are "number ones" or a strategy to get them. Stop fapping in the wind and learn to admit new evidence. It's called being an adult.

jskinny35 wrote:Won't argue how well Randle has played so far this season - much better then expected after last season's struggles. He has been our best player this season - although the impact of JB can't be understated.

When his value was really low (last season) it was suggested to not sell "low" as we would have possibly had to attach a pick to trade him or take back a lesser player (makes sense)... now he's played better and his value has improved so some here (myself) believe it would be good to sell "high." Another poster mentioned that the fans wishing to move Randle are being consistent and I agree with this comment. I've watched him for 3+ seasons and don't trust his play or his mental fortitude/maturity long-term. I also don't think he's the guy you give the ball to at the end of the game and expect to be successful. So why can't we use him to try to upgrade - especially if he's playing so amazing he should have a lot of value around the league right?

My question is what would it have to take for the Randle supporters/fans to decide it would be correct to move on from him and trade him? Next season if he regresses again or gets shut down in the playoffs again? He's a 2nd or 3rd tier star in the role of a #1 star and that is not his fault but it is limiting. Only likely way this works long-term is if a top tier FA star (eg Durant when he's like 35) decides if wants to sign with NY and join the roster. Otherwise it's moving RJ and other young players and riding out Randle as he nears 30. RJ and Randle are decent together and can improve somewhat - but after 3+ seasons it seems clear they are both very good but not team carrying stars.

So while supporters insist we have to explain who the trade would be for otherwise it makes no sense...can anyone explain why if he's so great now why does he not seem to have any reasonable trade value that would make us pause and consider? I hear some say we should consider RJ for OG or a move for Lavine. Those who say we shouldn't consider a Randle trade - can you share what you think his hypothetical value would be currently?

No real window to a championship this season, the goal is to make the playoffs and win some games. The East has some big question marks for next season: Grant Williams Kyrie free agency, Harden back to Houston, Milwaukee's aging roster, etc. Knicks won't have too much flexibility next summer but management has always had ways of figuring out how to be a player in FA.

Some potential deals for the trade Randle crowd:
Randle for KAT, AD, Westbrook, Zach LaVine, Vucevic, DeRozan, Tobias Harris, Tyler Herro, Ayton, Anyone on Dallas.

jskinny35 wrote:Won't argue how well Randle has played so far this season - much better then expected after last season's struggles. He has been our best player this season - although the impact of JB can't be understated.

My question is what would it have to take for the Randle supporters/fans to decide it would be correct to move on from him and trade him? Next season if he regresses again or gets shut down in the playoffs again? He's a 2nd or 3rd tier star in the role of a #1 star and that is not his fault but it is limiting. Only likely way this works long-term is if a top tier FA star (eg Durant when he's like 35) decides if wants to sign with NY and join the roster. Otherwise it's moving RJ and other young players and riding out Randle as he nears 30. RJ and Randle are decent together and can improve somewhat - but after 3+ seasons it seems clear they are both very good but not team carrying stars.

So while supporters insist we have to explain who the trade would be for otherwise it makes no sense...can anyone explain why if he's so great now why does he not seem to have any reasonable trade value that would make us pause and consider? I hear some say we should consider RJ for OG or a move for Lavine. Those who say we shouldn't consider a Randle trade - can you share what you think his hypothetical value would be currently?

Fair questions
Most Randle supporters would have no problem including Randle in a trade that includes a better piece. For me, that would be a mid 20s top 15 or so. Booker, DM. Not guys with injury issues Ie Lavine. Although it may not guarantee a chip, and we would have to look at what else is required, it would be a move that is best for Knicks.
Problem is that does not exist. Nor will that mid 20's player have any guarantee of winning without other pieces added. Which will probably a player like Randle to be an intimidator down low and demand doublea. Definably not interested in breaking up a decent team heading in the right direction for draft capital. Seen that movie play out too often.

In terms of current value. Hard for anyone to say. Goes from needing to include a first to get rid of him (haters) to getting the kind of packages "rumored/mocks" for Myles Turner. Who I feel would be doing less to help the Knicks if we had him instead of Randle.

https://nbaanalysis.net/2023/01/05/nba-trade-rumors-boston-celtics-indiana-pacers-myles-turner-jayson-tatum-bold-scenario/2/
https://netswire.usatoday.com/lists/mock-trade-has-brooklyn-nets-trading-for-indiana-pacers-big-myles-turner/

Randles value comes in toughness, the ability to rebound, score and his contract. Hard to replace that straight up right now. My point is that those wanting to trade him have such a pessimistic view of the direction of the team. Feel it is just another way they can put down Randle. Hard to respect that outlook considering it's mostly coming from the "trade him for scraps" and "give Obi the chance" crowd. One that did not exactly turn out as predicted. I just see so many other moves that can be made prior to getting rid of your best player. But again, open to a trade if it helps he Knicks and is not just for a while bunch of maybe's.

One might look at randles career path and consider how many players over many years did not succeed due to team constructions, coaching, and money. Randle got dumped by lakers to make room for Lebron.
He played very well in NOLA under difficult circumstances. he earned the knicks contract.
The Fiz year? Very bad. was that sole on him? Not really.
1st Thibs year he kiils it.
Next year was “WTF”.

Then its Battered knick syndrome and those affected want to dump him with assets. Others are like “Tell me whats wrong and then I’ll decide”. We never knew. “Haters” made up **** and pointed “What has he done”. Its a fair question but fact is the player has demonstrated ability prior and while rumors might have said team was internally questioning him, they also were figuring out how to best get on track.

And this is where we are now. He is succeeding beyond his contract.

Then there are those who can only express their displeasure with him. We refer to them as "haters'" but whatever. You can see them in the game threads, becrying a missed foul shot, a turnover, a mental lapse. No mention of his double double, crucial steal, or defensive intensity at the stretch.

It's a strange phenomenon. Not just the Randle hate, but those who seem invested in the team sucking as it progresses on an upward trajectory. Not only on this board by any means, and in fact they seem to be in the minority here, unlike other places. They defend themselves with sarcasm -- "Randle can do no wrong, etc." when that isn't what us "supporters" or defenders have been saying at all. Only were saying maybe attaching multiple picks and trading for a cap killing Westbrook. Wall, and so on isn't prudent. And maybe Randle is on a really good contract. And maybe he isn't the problem at all but part of the solution.

But nah, I cant believe Randle rolled his eyes at the ref. Jesus, so effing weird. And so effing tiresome.

jskinny35 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Won't argue how well Randle has played so far this season - much better then expected after last season's struggles. He has been our best player this season - although the impact of JB can't be understated.

My question is what would it have to take for the Randle supporters/fans to decide it would be correct to move on from him and trade him? Next season if he regresses again or gets shut down in the playoffs again? He's a 2nd or 3rd tier star in the role of a #1 star and that is not his fault but it is limiting. Only likely way this works long-term is if a top tier FA star (eg Durant when he's like 35) decides if wants to sign with NY and join the roster. Otherwise it's moving RJ and other young players and riding out Randle as he nears 30. RJ and Randle are decent together and can improve somewhat - but after 3+ seasons it seems clear they are both very good but not team carrying stars.

So while supporters insist we have to explain who the trade would be for otherwise it makes no sense...can anyone explain why if he's so great now why does he not seem to have any reasonable trade value that would make us pause and consider? I hear some say we should consider RJ for OG or a move for Lavine. Those who say we shouldn't consider a Randle trade - can you share what you think his hypothetical value would be currently?

Fair questions
Most Randle supporters would have no problem including Randle in a trade that includes a better piece. For me, that would be a mid 20s top 15 or so. Booker, DM. Not guys with injury issues Ie Lavine. Although it may not guarantee a chip, and we would have to look at what else is required, it would be a move that is best for Knicks.
Problem is that does not exist. Nor will that mid 20's player have any guarantee of winning without other pieces added. Which will probably a player like Randle to be an intimidator down low and demand doublea. Definably not interested in breaking up a decent team heading in the right direction for draft capital. Seen that movie play out too often.

In terms of current value. Hard for anyone to say. Goes from needing to include a first to get rid of him (haters) to getting the kind of packages "rumored/mocks" for Myles Turner. Who I feel would be doing less to help the Knicks if we had him instead of Randle.

https://nbaanalysis.net/2023/01/05/nba-trade-rumors-boston-celtics-indiana-pacers-myles-turner-jayson-tatum-bold-scenario/2/
https://netswire.usatoday.com/lists/mock-trade-has-brooklyn-nets-trading-for-indiana-pacers-big-myles-turner/

Randles value comes in toughness, the ability to rebound, score and his contract. Hard to replace that straight up right now. My point is that those wanting to trade him have such a pessimistic view of the direction of the team. Feel it is just another way they can put down Randle. Hard to respect that outlook considering it's mostly coming from the "trade him for scraps" and "give Obi the chance" crowd. One that did not exactly turn out as predicted. I just see so many other moves that can be made prior to getting rid of your best player. But again, open to a trade if it helps he Knicks and is not just for a while bunch of maybe's.

Thank you for answering my questions - I do appreciate it. While I don't think Randle is the answer - I don't view him as the only/primary problem but more as the best chance to improve the team. I think he plays and works hard and will acknowledge my bias against iso-ball players that hold the ball. He's done better with this aspect this season and hope I'm wrong that he does sustain it and improves his consistency on defense and his decision-making in tight games.

Agree. Some on here will say the contrary, but I have stated several aspects I dislike about Randle. Drop a lot of F bombs when he plays and does something stupid. However, unlike most, I also account for other positives, room for improvement, age, contract and current other viable options.

Do that with RJ, JB and others as well. RJ for me, just does not have a lot of all around Basketball IQ. However, okay with giving a 22 year old time to develop. Also take into account his work ethic. Also have issues with JB. Think he can easily have over 10 assists per game. Especially with MR in the game. But I look past that and understand that he is probably our best PG in decades and if he adds some kickouts and extra assists, he can be a All Star. Happy to have him.

I am for paths to be a chip contender. Not easy. Randle as a number one option may not be that. But a piece like Randle at a relative cost is. imo. Keep mentioning that the path before we include a big move like moving our best player should be to trim some fat, add some pieces with assets via trade, add pieces in the upcoming strong draft. Then asses how your main pieces are working together. If they don't, then its time to consider changing the main parts. Some should be reminded that the Celtics were about to tear down Tatum, Brown and Smart a couple years ago. Then they started clicking and had a more well rounded roster with some needed additions.

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Big Daddy, I don't really believe you are a fan who wants the team to win. This is the best the roster has looked in 20 years and you want to blow it up. It seems what you want is to be right about Randle sucking more than you want to see the Knicks win.

The comparison you used is just bad.
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=randlju01&p1yrfrom=2023&player_id2=nowitdi01&p2yrfrom=2011

Dude, WTF, LOL.

Not sure what you are trying for here. I said Dirk's MVP season, which was 2006-7, Dirk's 9th season/ age 28. The stat I'm looking at is from Dirk's same year as Randle's but you try to refute it with an age 32 comparison? Not sure why.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=randlju01&p1yrfrom=2023&player_id2=nowitdi01&p2yrfrom=2007

In terms of "cherry picking a small sample size" - Randle has already played half a season, I don't think 39 games is a small sample. Between that and 2020-21, Randle has 110 games (out of 550) where he's played at an all NBA level. Please explain to my stupid ass how trading Randle gets us closer to landing a guy as good.