martin wrote:Was Conley some sort of stout defender? I don't remember. Their small back court of Mitchell/Conley seemed to be OK?

Garland/Sexton are pretty talented and that backcourt resulted in the league's worst defense. Also Brunson/Mitchell are two guys we just acquired and you are looking at commitment of at least a couple years

Mitchell is a 25yo 3x all star. NO F way we are getting him without giving up a Gobert caliber package and I'll pass on that

Philc1 wrote:

martin wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Why are we trading RJ? Ugh wtf just when you think things are looking good

Knicks aren't though so why even bring it up?

Ainge is going to want RJ. Our future picks aren’t great

Bro, you a lawyer. Can you use some of that lawyer sense to actually make sense or should we just pile on all lawyers more?

Convince me that the Knicks, who have more picks and all of their own going forward outside of like OKC or Houston, don't have good future picks? How are the Knicks future picks any less than say Atlanta's or Twolve's picks that were just traded?

And Ainge can want RJ all he wants, NY has either said no or they have not, you have zero clue or insight into that decision.

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BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:Was Conley some sort of stout defender? I don't remember. Their small back court of Mitchell/Conley seemed to be OK?

Or maybe Rudy Gobert was just that good.Theyrr scheme seemed revolved around funneling players into Gobert. Conley and Ingles are smart defenders and it seemed to work through the regular season. Can't speak for Brunson, but I think most of the starters on the Knicks fall in the dumb category when it comes to defensive awareness.

Utah and the Knicks had the same defensive rating last year. And that was with Kemba, Fournier, and out of shape Mitch.

And the Knicks paint defense was stout?

I wouldn't say stout, but it was good enough. Could have been a lot better, but wasn't the biggest issue facing the team last season.

Paint defense was top 3 in the league last year? It was probably purposeful, as they were god awful on the perimeter.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense/?sort=OPP_PTS_PAINT&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

franco12 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:if you make a trade for a player that is going to include a ton of picks you need to make sure you have close to the structure of a team that can compete for a title.

We will not be that team structured around Brunson/Mitchell/RJ/Randle

BUT

Knicks/MSG isnt really about titles these days, its about being relevant again and that team will accomplish that.

Watching a Brunson/Mitchell backcourt defend every night is gonna wear really thin really fast on this fanbase. Randle will be the happiest dude in town. He'll right "told ya" on his shoes

I agree- but if you are able to add Mitchell to an RJ/Brunson/Robinson/Randle team - those guys are all right there in their prime - and you hope for next steps from Mitchell- dude is 25 and probably has another level to get to? And you hope that RJ definitely takes 2 levels up (questionable, I know)- and that Brunson gives you the kind of performance you saw in the playoffs - and that he can help get more out of guys like Robinson and Randle.

If these players on our roster are the cards you've been dealt, I don't think waiting is the smart move (if you want to keep your job in any capacity.)

And honestly - not to drink the kool aid - but how far off is Mitchell at 25 from where Curry was at 25? Can we say with certainty that Mitchell can't get to a level comparable with Curry?

Good questions. Basically DoMitch surrounded by better talent grow more. I’d say his ceiling is Lillard-like.
In the end its either stupid or the aggregate expands thru chemistry then the sum of the parts.
My nagging thinking is there is a deal with Utah, Brooklyn, and PHX where

Durant to PHX
Mitchell to BKN
Ayton to Utah

Where are we? Utah would be ignorant to not engage others to make bids. Sets the bar. At the end of the day he has to justify some valuation to his owner who really is the one making the final decision.
Having our toes in the water perhaps (I have said this elsewhere) puts us in the game but also as a facilitator. Do we need to use our capital, or all of it this year? Not really. Can we instead fortify it, and shed some players? Also can we be paid to facilitate a big deal and jump in? A world were Grimes and Fournier gone out with a pick and other assets come back, including Cam Johnson? Do we take Joe Harris back in some other deal but again, we are compensated to do so?

No predictions here, just expanding the thoughts and spitballing on rumors.
As usual, fans will get pissed as we don’t bring the starphuck home but Leon/Perry/Aller been operating above our heads for some time now.

Just the fact we here in the conversation one has to look at last few years that got us the asset base.
WE obsess over Randle comments while others are in the twilight zone running scenario after another to figure **** out. They don’t always execute, but that’s another story.

No way we can facilitate a trade that sends Mitchell to Brooklyn.

Right. Just remember too: Donovan and Ben Simmons both were given max rookie extensions, and there is a rule in the NBA that you can't trade for 2 guys that were given that type of contract; ie Brooklyn would have to trade Simmons first to receive Donovan.

I understand Simmons and Mitchell can’t play for nets at same time. Simmons value is not that high but he represents value at some level.

If healthy, and mentally right, he’d look great next to Brunson and RJ!!!!!!
The art of doing **** well is seeing things that others can’t. As a fan we can spitball this out. We tend to speak like we know what Leon or Thibs is thinking.
We don’t and can’t fathom most of it.
But Do I trade Randle for Ben Simmons if his back checks out, and he can not just tell us he committed but demonstrates something between the ears that measures maturity to fulfill a level of professionalism? How do we do that? Not my job. Not pretending I know **** but I steal some of Jimmy Butlers blood, put it in some machine and infuse it into Simmons we might have something.

Simmons/Brunson/RJ trio is intriguing. Oh, we get paid to do this BTW?

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martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:if you make a trade for a player that is going to include a ton of picks you need to make sure you have close to the structure of a team that can compete for a title.

We will not be that team structured around Brunson/Mitchell/RJ/Randle

BUT

Knicks/MSG isnt really about titles these days, its about being relevant again and that team will accomplish that.

Watching a Brunson/Mitchell backcourt defend every night is gonna wear really thin really fast on this fanbase. Randle will be the happiest dude in town. He'll right "told ya" on his shoes

I agree- but if you are able to add Mitchell to an RJ/Brunson/Robinson/Randle team - those guys are all right there in their prime - and you hope for next steps from Mitchell- dude is 25 and probably has another level to get to? And you hope that RJ definitely takes 2 levels up (questionable, I know)- and that Brunson gives you the kind of performance you saw in the playoffs - and that he can help get more out of guys like Robinson and Randle.

If these players on our roster are the cards you've been dealt, I don't think waiting is the smart move (if you want to keep your job in any capacity.)

And honestly - not to drink the kool aid - but how far off is Mitchell at 25 from where Curry was at 25? Can we say with certainty that Mitchell can't get to a level comparable with Curry?

Good questions. Basically DoMitch surrounded by better talent grow more. I’d say his ceiling is Lillard-like.
In the end its either stupid or the aggregate expands thru chemistry then the sum of the parts.
My nagging thinking is there is a deal with Utah, Brooklyn, and PHX where

Durant to PHX
Mitchell to BKN
Ayton to Utah

Where are we? Utah would be ignorant to not engage others to make bids. Sets the bar. At the end of the day he has to justify some valuation to his owner who really is the one making the final decision.
Having our toes in the water perhaps (I have said this elsewhere) puts us in the game but also as a facilitator. Do we need to use our capital, or all of it this year? Not really. Can we instead fortify it, and shed some players? Also can we be paid to facilitate a big deal and jump in? A world were Grimes and Fournier gone out with a pick and other assets come back, including Cam Johnson? Do we take Joe Harris back in some other deal but again, we are compensated to do so?

No predictions here, just expanding the thoughts and spitballing on rumors.
As usual, fans will get pissed as we don’t bring the starphuck home but Leon/Perry/Aller been operating above our heads for some time now.

Just the fact we here in the conversation one has to look at last few years that got us the asset base.
WE obsess over Randle comments while others are in the twilight zone running scenario after another to figure **** out. They don’t always execute, but that’s another story.

No way we can facilitate a trade that sends Mitchell to Brooklyn.

Right. Just remember too: Donovan and Ben Simmons both were given max rookie extensions, and there is a rule in the NBA that you can't trade for 2 guys that were given that type of contract; ie Brooklyn would have to trade Simmons first to receive Donovan.

So if there were a multi team deal involving Donovan, the Knicks and Nets, then likely Simmons is going to Utah - and given his value and the Nets paucity of picks, they are the ones in position to get scraps (Fournier & a draft pick, something like that).

And wonder if Durant would stay if the Nets jettison Simmons/Irving, maybe get a solid vet like Fournier back in lieu of Simmons.

Ainge can gamble on Simmons reviving his career (to the extent possible), helping his Utah tank in the next 2-3 years. Maybe trade him or just let his salary expired.