Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1488439474296172550

Clean wrote:Anyone notice how contradictory this statement and the one about being benched for most of the season helped him are? That why I never believed that initial one at all. He is like Obi he will never say anything to cause any controversy. We have seen how frustrated Obi is from his quick hooks sometimes but if you ask hm about it he will always say Thibs knows what he is doing. That is another reason why I love them. They might not agree with what's going on but you will never hear it from them. Anything that will cause a slight bit of drama is avoided at all costs.

I guess I don't understand this statement or perhaps perspective.

Also it is quite damning to think that players like Grimes and Obi are flat lying to the media and fans? I just don't think that is the case.

Maybe I am missing something?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/APachecoNBA/status/1488517201787301893

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:Anyone notice how contradictory this statement and the one about being benched for most of the season helped him are? That why I never believed that initial one at all. He is like Obi he will never say anything to cause any controversy. We have seen how frustrated Obi is from his quick hooks sometimes but if you ask hm about it he will always say Thibs knows what he is doing. That is another reason why I love them. They might not agree with what's going on but you will never hear it from them. Anything that will cause a slight bit of drama is avoided at all costs.

I guess I don't understand this statement or perhaps perspective.

Also it is quite damning to think that players like Grimes and Obi are flat lying to the media and fans? I just don't think that is the case.

Maybe I am missing something?

Seems to me that Grimes is growing even blossoming under the tutelage of Coach Thibodeau. Other young guys Obi, IQ, Mitch, and RJ all are progressing in their play, if with some frustrating but understandable bumps. Deuce and Sims who knows but don’t see them wilting away. Compare to the “progress” of the prospects of previous regimes. Maybe Coach knows what he’s doing?

KnickDanger wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:Anyone notice how contradictory this statement and the one about being benched for most of the season helped him are? That why I never believed that initial one at all. He is like Obi he will never say anything to cause any controversy. We have seen how frustrated Obi is from his quick hooks sometimes but if you ask hm about it he will always say Thibs knows what he is doing. That is another reason why I love them. They might not agree with what's going on but you will never hear it from them. Anything that will cause a slight bit of drama is avoided at all costs.

I guess I don't understand this statement or perhaps perspective.

Also it is quite damning to think that players like Grimes and Obi are flat lying to the media and fans? I just don't think that is the case.

Maybe I am missing something?

Seems to me that Grimes is growing even blossoming under the tutelage of Coach Thibodeau. Other young guys Obi, IQ, Mitch, and RJ all are progressing in their play, if with some frustrating but understandable bumps. Deuce and Sims who knows but don’t see them wilting away. Compare to the “progress” of the prospects of previous regimes. Maybe Coach knows what he’s doing?

YES, 100%.

This has been my perspective from the start of the Leon Rose tenure, from Leon to WWW to Brock to Thibs and staff and right to the players. Will they make mistakes? Sure they will. Is their path going to have twists and turns, ups and downs? Sure, it ain't gonna be a straight line. But they are going through the right steps to create a base and build upon it.

This is literally what development and culture building looks like and most Knicks fans want instant gratification and can't actually tolerate the different steps you need to go through to succeed. It takes a ****load of patience AND work.

I don't ever see Thibs and FO as disconnected, as if they are 2 separate entities that don't know what the other is doing or barely know what the other is doing. EVERYTHING that they do is coordinated at some level, maybe not the day-to-day tactics, but they already have discussed what the other will be doing and why they are going it. Most all high level organizations do this.

For example: Sit Cam until both roster is ready and Cam is ready? Yeah they've already ALL gotten on board with how they want to handle him for the next months BEFORE they traded for him. And as soon as they traded for Cam (and probably got light word to his agent before they traded for him to feel this type of discussion out), they sat Cam down and outlined this, whether he fully agreed with it out not. They want Cam to be successful, they want to provide Cam with whatever it takes FOR him to be successful, and they want him AND staff to put in the work together. It ain't gonna happen on Day 1 and these are the things we are gonna need from you Cam to get you on court and playing the right way.

Prime example of Cam not playing the right way? From the right side of the lane, he has a really nice drive to basket and goes to finish on other side of rim.... aaaannnd he goes up either off the wrong foot or goes up really weakly AND finishes with his right hand - the wrong hand to finish with in that situation - and got the crap blocked out of his shot. Cam made a god awful play that most college guys know how to finish properly and the coaching staff will correct. Lots of stuff like that. He needs to play the right way first and then get minutes. There is no entitling of players who play the wrong way with minutes or who don't do the right things. (and if you have to ask "then why is Fournier or Kemba or Burks starting, they do things the wrong way all the time or are shooting really badly or playing defense badly" you are not getting it, but don't worry, they are not long for starting OR being on the team, even if they were just signed to a contract).

Are the players going to make mistakes on the court that won't get then pulled immediately? Of course, especially if they are locked in on playing with smart, high energy and doing the simple things they have been asked to do (and NOT do).

There is a reason IQ made it into rotation last year and same with Grimes this year as opposed to McBride and Obi (compared to their relative minutes given). They all know it cause they are repeatedly reminded of it. Some times the roster makeup and game flow will dictate minutes of the young guys.

Some times Thibs ****s up and overplays his big gun vets, he is flawed that way as any coach is. And ****ing A did Randle and RJ EARN that respect by playing 38 minutes a game last year while shouldering maybe one of the best Cinderella stories for the Knicks in the last 20 years outside of Linsanity? Yes indeed they did and they too deserve (some of) the tolerance of mistakes and time they are getting.

BTW, speaking of coaches overly relying on their guys... Rolando Blackman is still warming up on the sidelines, getting his sweat on, ready to go in case Riley wants to put him in for 2-16 going on 2-17 Starks cause coaches **** up some times and give their guys who earn minutes lots of and often time too much slack.

KnickDanger wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:Anyone notice how contradictory this statement and the one about being benched for most of the season helped him are? That why I never believed that initial one at all. He is like Obi he will never say anything to cause any controversy. We have seen how frustrated Obi is from his quick hooks sometimes but if you ask hm about it he will always say Thibs knows what he is doing. That is another reason why I love them. They might not agree with what's going on but you will never hear it from them. Anything that will cause a slight bit of drama is avoided at all costs.

I guess I don't understand this statement or perhaps perspective.

Also it is quite damning to think that players like Grimes and Obi are flat lying to the media and fans? I just don't think that is the case.

Maybe I am missing something?

Seems to me that Grimes is growing even blossoming under the tutelage of Coach Thibodeau. Other young guys Obi, IQ, Mitch, and RJ all are progressing in their play, if with some frustrating but understandable bumps. Deuce and Sims who knows but don’t see them wilting away. Compare to the “progress” of the prospects of previous regimes. Maybe Coach knows what he’s doing?

How would we tell the difference between better development or we are picking better prospects? I mean Frank and Knox did not really progress under Thibs and this FO. If it was all development you would think he would have improved them also right? I am not saying your right or wrong just a question that I have after reading your post.

Clean wrote:
How would we tell the difference between better development or we are picking better prospects? I mean Frank and Knox did not really progress under Thibs and this FO. If it was all development you would think he would have improved them also right? I am not saying your right or wrong just a question that I have after reading your post.

See Martin's above post. Better prospects and better coaching are not separate in this organization. You could also say "more appropriate" prospects -- ones that play in a way that fits in with the organizational vision which obviously features Thibs as a main component. You know, DEE-fense. For starters.

Previous prospects Knox, Frank, Dotson, Trier...they were jettisoned because they don't fit in (although I will say it is a great disappointment to me that Frank's defensive prowess was not able to blossom into a more complete player here, but let's not give smelling salts to that dead horse) or just don't have the talent level. Or maybe they were ruined by Fiz et al. I don't know. But I will judge Thibs on the present, not Knicks past sins.

martin wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Clean wrote:
How would we tell the difference between better development or we are picking better prospects? I mean Frank and Knox did not really progress under Thibs and this FO. If it was all development you would think he would have improved them also right? I am not saying your right or wrong just a question that I have after reading your post.

See Martin's above post. Better prospects and better coaching are not separate in this organization. You could also say "more appropriate" prospects -- ones that play in a way that fits in with the organizational vision which obviously features Thibs as a main component. You know, DEE-fense. For starters.

Previous prospects Knox, Frank, Dotson, Trier...they were jettisoned because they don't fit in (although I will say it is a great disappointment to me that Frank's defensive prowess was not able to blossom into a more complete player here, but let's not give smelling salts to that dead horse) or just don't have the talent level. Or maybe they were ruined by Fiz et al. I don't know. But I will judge Thibs on the present, not Knicks past sins.

Right, some times it's just the player and/or the opportunity. Some players just can't put it together. And we know this cause Frank and DSJr still suck on different teams.

There is no magic formula to player development, as if, we have awesome development and can make any player special. No, not the way it works.

You have to have talent, work ethic and then maybe we can develop that.

Actually, I'll expand on that. You have to have the talent, work ethic, opportunity, not be injured, right mindset (sometimes development just clicks in your head), support structure (whether family, agent, etc.), and have a ton of other things work out and then *maybe* you can fulfill you potential and even then it ain't a given.

That's why the magic is in the work.

KnickDanger wrote:

Clean wrote:
How would we tell the difference between better development or we are picking better prospects? I mean Frank and Knox did not really progress under Thibs and this FO. If it was all development you would think he would have improved them also right? I am not saying your right or wrong just a question that I have after reading your post.

See Martin's above post. Better prospects and better coaching are not separate in this organization. You could also say "more appropriate" prospects -- ones that play in a way that fits in with the organizational vision which obviously features Thibs as a main component. You know, DEE-fense. For starters.

Previous prospects Knox, Frank, Dotson, Trier...they were jettisoned because they don't fit in (although I will say it is a great disappointment to me that Frank's defensive prowess was not able to blossom into a more complete player here, but let's not give smelling salts to that dead horse) or just don't have the talent level. Or maybe they were ruined by Fiz et al. I don't know. But I will judge Thibs on the present, not Knicks past sins.

Fair enough.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/FredKatz/status/1488533983378001929