HofstraBBall wrote:Uptown wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Uptown wrote:wargames wrote:KnickDanger wrote:wargames wrote:KnickDanger wrote:I am pleased to see reasoned even wise voices amongst the reactive yelps. Let's not do what we've always done, yet that is what many are yelping for the FO to do. Personally I see the onslaught of negativity as counterproductive at best -- and at worst creating an environment where slumps become apocalypses and no player in their right mind would want to play here. I get some fans cannot help themselves. Media largely are vultures in search of carrion. So far the current regime seems to not give in to all that nonsense as in the past which is what really matters. Having stated that yeah I too am frustrated with Randle's performance (and the team's) and wonder what is going on with him. But I am trusting the FO to stay reasoned and not trade him for the bag of chips or toss him away like the bag after you've sucked it down.
It depends on what is being offered though. If the FO knows what they want and a team offers it they can pull the trigger. The main issue is deciding they want to trade Randle. Begley has said other teams thought the right package could get it done, then he said the FO has to decide if they want to trade Randle or not. To me that indicates somebody or multiple somebodies made that right offer. Now they got to decide if they want to risk it over risking that Randle gets his mind right.
Absolutely -- that's what I mean by "reasoned." Lots of questions to address before pulling any trigger. Would you prefer last season's Randle over what you might be getting? If so how do you support him in getting back to that level? Are you ready to say to hell with the play in this season? And so on.
The current regime has shown they are capable of great to solid moves to go with a few questionable ones. The percentage seems good to me, especially compared o what when on prior. I will trust them over the mob to make the right decision.
I think the more accurate set of questions are: Can Randle return to last season’s Randle? Is there anyway they can support him to get back there? Is he worth this contract as it scheduled to grow? Is this toxicity temporary or something that could happen again later in this contract?
Even beyond Randle this current season is likely done. That’s a whole other conversation though. They would definitely prefer last season’s Randle to anything they can get for a trade. However, was that a contract year fluke or did the Hawks expose his weakness? These are the realities the FO has to contend with.
Was last year an aberration is an honest question that needs honest answers from the front office. Randle's career numbers compared to last year's suggests that it was. Add the unusual circumstances of last years regular season and also consider Randle's performance here during his first year.
Sticking with Randle not only warrants physical reparations in terms of fixing his game on the court, but it also calls for mental reparations. Not only do we have to ask is it worth the attempt to fix this player, but is it futile? Or better yet, is it possible especially in this environment? What if we keep him and it only gets worse next year? The asset depreciates and some of the teams and or prospects that are available right now, maybe off the market next year.
In the end, we need to do what's best for this franchise. Moving on from Randle is what's best, in my opinion. I would not give him away for a deflated bag of basketballs, but I wouldn't ask for the moon either. If we can move some unwanted salary off the books and secure a young prospect or a 1st round pick, I think that's a victory.
Huh??
In 5 years of play (1st year hurt) prior to last year he averaged over 21ppg in all but first two seasons. Which he had a reduced role. His best (25 per 36) was in 18/19 with Pels. He has averaged averaged over 10 rebounds per 36 EVERY year EXCEPT last year. His FG% was the WORST last year since 2015. His TO per were the same as the last 4 years. The ONLY things that were BETTER last year were his 3pt% and FT%. So maybe ask yourself which year might actually be the aberration?
Per 36 is one of the many tools in a tool box that you would use to evaluate a player. It’s an assumption that the player's, in this case Randle, numbers will remain consistent with increased playing time. In some instances, its not the case. Case and point, Randle’s best per 36 years are the 17-18 and 18-19 seasons when he was coming off the bench. He did start a bunch of games those 2 years due to injuries and Anthony Davis removing himself from the lineup to escape to LA. But Randle racked up a lot of minutes vs the oppositions 2nd unit. Based on his per 36, can we assume that Randle is better coming off the bench? According to his per 36, in the 19-20 season, his first year in NY, his minutes increased but his pts per game, assists, 3pt fg% and 2pt fg% all decreased. Why didn't his numbers increase like per 36 said it would?
And just to give you an idea of how per 36 can be unreliable, take a look at Anthony Randolph's per 36. He should have been a perennial allstar, yet he only had a 6 year NBA career. Did the coaches ignore his per 36?
Aberration: Randle made 2nd team all NBA
Aberration 41% from 3
Aberration: all star team selection
Aberration: lead a team to the 4th seed in the playoffs
Aberration: the 20-21 season....teams ravaged by covid, bubble teams dealing with injuries, the Raptors were displaced, 65 games vs the normal 82, Knicks and a few other teams had 6-8 months to prepare for the upcoming season...
You do not like 36 stats? Used for the simple fact that his first two years were below average in minutes compared to later years.
But no problem. Field goal % does not change from 36 to total? So there is that. He averaged 21 and 9 in 18? He averaged 20 and 10 in 19. But let's pretend like he only jumped to those levels in 2021. He averaged 10 rebounds in his FIRST year. He averaged basically 9,8,9,10 his next four. He averaged less TO's than last year EVERY year prior. ALREADY mentioned his 3pt numbers were an "aberration". You can say what you want but the fact is that Randle has been balling since 2017 when he had expanded roles and was close to 20 per when being a focal point. Which btw, was the reason for the extension. You trying to turn basically 20/10 the last four years with a personal "aberration" theme is all air. As mentioned, you may want to consider that the last month has been an "aberration". But that would be taking facts and numbers into consideration.
Look. Randle is playing like ****. No secret. But I feel the FO will look at facts and not use emotional BS to analyze what should be done with Randle. Now if some on here or the FO do not like his lack of effort, iso ball style, or are tired of the things he has said, I could respect that. But let's stop with he has never produced at a high level.
What's understated about Randle is how he impacts other players. When he runs the floor, makes quick decisions with the ball and hustles/leads by example - he positively impacts the other players. When he slowly dribble up court, iso-balls, etc - this negatively impacts the other starters. While it's not only Randle as there are other roster limitations, and I do believe Randle produces better then most everyone... he also usually magnifies the deficiencies from the other players on the floor. Yes the other players have a lot of warts.
Examples include RJ having to spot up more and not be who he is (a slasher who is streaky from outside), Mitch being unable to shoot from outside but relegated to chasing long rebounds from deep fadeways, Fournier also having to be more of a spot up shooter even though he is naturally more of a shot creator, etc. Second unit seems to be playing a completely different style of basketball. It's basically pace, ball movement and hustle. Anybody see how hard all of Miami Heat players play at? And it starts from the top - you don't see Butler or Herro half-dogging it to save themselves energy for the offensive end. Last year I proud that the effort level was there - kinda of like back in the 90s. This year it's diva ball some nights, and decent to hard-working other nights. Watching Randle I have to hold him to a higher standard or he needs to step aside. RJ makes a lot of blunders but you still see a frustration or appearance of desire to better himself. Toppin makes even more but he runs the floor so hard and hustles so much - as a fan you at least can be more forgiving as there is effort on display. I suspect Thibs is giving Randle an earful (privately) and Randle is either pushing back, overly sensitive and/or could be crumbling under the pressure placed upon him. I think Thibs starts internally/privately to show respect, but may have warned Randle that he will start benching him. No idea - just a hunch as Randle seems drastically different the past few weeks.
Unless there is an unknown injury or wild-card scenario - I would be shocked if Randle is here past the deadline.
