gradyandrew wrote:Philly had to send Embiid out to ask the fans to be nice to Ben. Tobias said first and foremost Ben is a human. Not sure where it's coming from，but don't you think this is the organization finally waking up to how poorly they handled this?
I'm not sure how much stock Simmons puts in those comments now. Much easier if they had been consistent all summer.

Yeah, it is quite a reversal in their messaging but I think it will prove to be futile. Simmons has shown that he is too thinned skinned to take the criticism and it does not matter what Embiid or the team says, the Philly fans are not letting it go. If they were in Portland or OKC, then maybe, but Philly fans are not cutting him any breaks.

At least it gives Philly a way out without looking weak. They can just say Simmons is mentally ill, so he should stay home until he “heals”, I.e. until we can trade him.

I see the best path is to trade him but if the value is not there they have an asset that needs fixing. Simple from an organizatonal standpoint. Easier said than done and even harder to keep from being emotional. Thats the FO, coaches and Players. Then the media!!! Its all very emotional.

ITs wise to Given simmons a path back. Sure, Charles Oakly and his fans would never do this and should slap him good but im sure this is not the first time a pro team had a player melt under the crush. I’d say 99% of the times its been dealt with in house. That a trade request came out and public with this kind of contract after a very good season is very rare.

I know we like our guys to be real tough “Warrior” kind of guys and Jordan focused.

Philly seemed to be a place to crush guys. Ok4 Rookie year was quite productive then he went off the rails, They broke Fultz. Literally. MCW rookie of the year, then declined. Norlens never go it going. Embiid needed two years. The draft opportunity and returns have been really unbalance in philly.

The antitheses to all this was jimmy butler leaving the 76ers as a free agent in his prime. HE got his money and the hard Heat culture they like to sell. Simmmons was not strong enough to co-exist with Jimmy and his influence? Philly’s front office not address it properly? Another great opportunity slip away.

gradyandrew wrote:Ben Simmons came back and Doc immediately told him to go home. It seems like the organization is clueless and without a plan. Anyone see during the playoffs how Monty Williams talks to Ayton with love and respect?

Anyone see Thibs yelling at Toppin last night?

gradyandrew wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Ben Simmons came back and Doc immediately told him to go home. It seems like the organization is clueless and without a plan. Anyone see during the playoffs how Monty Williams talks to Ayton with love and respect?

Anyone see Thibs yelling at Toppin last night?

The players all say that off the court Thibs is a great guy. He loves his guys and is loyal to a fault.

Okay.

Off the court, what do all players say about Doc Rivers?

jrodmc wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Ben Simmons came back and Doc immediately told him to go home. It seems like the organization is clueless and without a plan. Anyone see during the playoffs how Monty Williams talks to Ayton with love and respect?

Now you can tell us how players refuse to run drills in practice all the time too, right? What is the organization supposed to do? Wait until he attempts to choke Doc or Embiid?

jrodmc wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Ben Simmons came back and Doc immediately told him to go home. It seems like the organization is clueless and without a plan. Anyone see during the playoffs how Monty Williams talks to Ayton with love and respect?

Now you can tell us how players refuse to run drills in practice all the time too, right? What is the organization supposed to do? Wait until he attempts to choke Doc or Embiid?

The organization has been trying to get him back to Philly all summer，but they day he came back the coach immediately burned that bridge. Personal management requires different approaches for different workers，not everyone is wired the same. This is a pretty obvious strategy of human resource management.

It seems you would rather deal in idealized vision of the world without any regard to the materialistic reality. It's a common problem of the petit bourgeoisie; your identification with the capitalist class makes you an even stauncher advocate of management than they themselves，because to admit that labor could have a legitimate grievance would require you to abandon your worldview.

Philly has now agreed to pay Ben and his teammates think he just needs time，yet you wish for him to be published for even questioning the worker/ management dynamic.

gradyandrew wrote:Good post Nalod. You convinced me. He's got the money to spend on the best psychiatry help in the world，he should do so if that's what he needs.

Thats a good take actually. He can go public a bit with some “issues”. He can win back some fans. But it don’t happen unless he plays well and team wins. Philly fans persona thrives on being “tough”. Won’t be easy.

franco12 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Ben Simmons came back and Doc immediately told him to go home. It seems like the organization is clueless and without a plan. Anyone see during the playoffs how Monty Williams talks to Ayton with love and respect?

Anyone see Thibs yelling at Toppin last night?

I’ve seen Pat Riley and Bill Parcells routinely yell at players during games too

I saw Thibs yell at Toppin and Toppin immediate responded with a made basket or two and some other good play.

Some guys respond positively to criticism, other guys wilt.

Toppin has had to prove himself at every level. simmons has been a rock star at every level and then with a Max contract he implied entitled and leverage. Very different paths. Toppin got here with talent but a work ethic which is his story. Simmons path has much fanfare to it and high expectations. Kid has not been a bust,he is an allstar, his shot has not developed, has a ****ty attitude and wilted after a very good season.
Doc came in to kick his ass. Your right, he has not responded well.

gradyandrew wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Ben Simmons came back and Doc immediately told him to go home. It seems like the organization is clueless and without a plan. Anyone see during the playoffs how Monty Williams talks to Ayton with love and respect?

Now you can tell us how players refuse to run drills in practice all the time too, right? What is the organization supposed to do? Wait until he attempts to choke Doc or Embiid?

The organization has been trying to get him back to Philly all summer，but they day he came back the coach immediately burned that bridge. Personal management requires different approaches for different workers，not everyone is wired the same. This is a pretty obvious strategy of human resource management.

Hold that thought...

It seems you would rather deal in idealized vision of the world without any regard to the materialistic reality. It's a common problem of the petit bourgeoisie; your identification with the capitalist class makes you an even stauncher advocate of management than they themselves，because to admit that labor could have a legitimate grievance would require you to abandon your worldview.

.....aaaaaand scene!

Anyways, I'd advise not suggesting "obvious" human resource management strategy when you have no background in human resource management.

What you're suggesting is a way to get sued and then fired in 2021.

You can't get in one person's face, make them run laps, or give someone tough love, while you cater to someone else's inability to handle these thing at the same time.

That's a non-starter.

A team has to play by the same rules. At least when they are together.

Ben Simmons can't be coddled if he refuses to participate in a team practice the same way Seth Curry can't if he did the same.

Full stop.

Philc1 wrote:The sixers need to trade Simmons even if all they get is picks. The kid is a spoiled jerk, KP with more talent but even dumber, plus I’ll continue to say this he was shaving points in the playoffs last year

And you continue to be proud of that? Create a false narrative when something is illogical to you?
How does dumping simmons help Philly’s team as its currently constructed? If your Josh Harris, the owner of the team who decides on things, like hiring Morey who is not a draft guy, but a wheeler dealer and very good at his job. It would be the owners call to decide what to do.
If they dump him for picks, they don’t win much this year.
If they hold hi out, they don’t win much this year.
If they make a ****ty lopsided deal, they don’t win much this year.
If your changing your prospects and look to rebuild, they don’t win much this year.
If your patient, you COULD get simmons head right to get on the court, play well and you might win more AND have a better trade asset.
Simmons was dumb as rocks last year and the team was the no. 1 seed. He is cutting his nose to spite his face. Perhaps he’ll come around. Its in his and the teams best interests to do so. He needs to get in shape, do some youtube interview that panders to the fans emotions and tugs at their hearts, and play ball.
If he is as rumored to be completely self conscious and obsessed with image he will continue to fail on and off the court. Sixers are motivated to create a path for his return. This is the only logical path that can lead to any good outcome. Even for him to be traded.