VDesai wrote:I swear some Obi at the 5 would shut down the entire Hawks defensive game plan. Capela is playing the spy linebacker essentially - roaming all over the court and providing the looming double on Randle. Noel can't space the floor, but Obi can take it downtown. I think we can put a pretty nice spurt on them with 4-5 mins of Obi at the 5 with Randle on the floor.

Double edged sword. You are either taking minutes away from Noel or Taj and then Trae REALLY has free rein to the rim.

Chandler wrote:

VDesai wrote:Obi and Mitch are the kinds of players that got unlocked with a really good PG. The way Obi can leap and roll and run the floor...imagine he was on the Hawks playing with Trae.

I am 100% in this camp. Obi also has the challenge of playing behind randle

but on a unit that created turnovers and ran, or ran on long rebounds, he will be great

If Toppin could help this team win with a true rotation role, he would be in the lineup, even with Randle playing a ton of minutes. NBA big men, if they want to keep a job, need to AT LEAST do one of two things - 1) Defend the rim & quarterback the defense or 2) Space the floor as a long range gunner

Ideally you want a guy who can give you some of both.

I keep hearing Toppin would be great in a transition centric offense ( People need to accept that this is NOT Dayton. The offense won't be built around Toppin. He's going to have to adjust and bring value in different ways) . You know what helps your team in transition? Good defense that spurs good transition offense. Does Toppin provide that? No. I keep hearing all Toppin needs is a true point guard. OK, that's a double sided coin. A good point guard can make other players better. However even if you have a good point guard, you are still responsible for moving well OFF THE BALL. Put yourself in a position to help your point guard out and be at the right place/right time to take advantage of the defense. Does Toppin move well off the ball? He does not. Does he space the floor? Currently he does not.

I keep hearing Thibs hates rookies and Toppin isn't being used right. How do you use a big man effectively who can't defend the rim, can't quarterback the defense and can't space the floor?

If Toppin at the 5 slot could shut down the Hawks, he would have been playing healthy chunks of minutes to get there.

Toppin looks good on an alley oop. That's great. If the goal is to win a NBA Dunk Contest. Does he look good on defense? Long range shooting? Moving off the ball? Rim protection? Ball security? Dribbling? High BBIQ play?

Some of you want an increased role for Topppin. OK, doing exactly what here? What is he doing to help the team win? Randle is carrying a ton of weight on his shoulders, what can Toppin do to help Randle? You know what would help Randle? A big man who can defend the rim and space the floor.

Someone tell me specifically what role Toppin is likely to fill to help this team win basketball games?

Does this line of questioning sound familar? It's the same questions I asked years ago about Enes Kanter. The difference is Toppin makes Kanter look like prime Rodman on defense in comparison. Speaking of Kanter, do any of you remember what other teams did to him when he was clocking big minutes? They ran the pick and roll on him like it was going out of style. Because he couldn't stop it. What do you think happens to Toppin if he's starting to get big minutes?

Anyone, feel free to answer any of this. It's not like I'm making up random **** about how to actually win basketball games. I keep hearing how useful Toppin can be without any specific explanation of what that would be or how he would practically get there given how the current and modern game is actually played.

Nalod wrote:

VDesai wrote:I swear some Obi at the 5 would shut down the entire Hawks defensive game plan. Capela is playing the spy linebacker essentially - roaming all over the court and providing the looming double on Randle. Noel can't space the floor, but Obi can take it downtown. I think we can put a pretty nice spurt on them with 4-5 mins of Obi at the 5 with Randle on the floor.

ZOnes are legal in the NBA. HE won’t chase Obi out.
obi is not the rim protector Thibs covets in his 5’s.
Maybe he an evolve into a Shawn Marion type player.
“What are we doing here” relating to giving Obi the keys? I think fan base is excited. Triple, no doubt some of this is illogical as might some of you labeling what Obi is and cannot be. Its your opinion and you make good points.

That's the point, if he doesn't chase Obi out, there's a kick out to Obi for a corner 3- and lately he has been hitting those with confidence. I'd like to see it. He can't play the 5 defensively, but lets give him 4-5 minutes with Randle and see if he can space the floor better. They are shutting Randle down defensively by having Capela cheat on Randle. Its way too easy to do with Noel who can't stick a 15 foot jumper with confidence. Taj is marginally better, but also not really a threat. Toppin has the size/length to play up there and the tools to be a threat.

Got goosebumps after his alley oop dunk from Burks - crowd erupting, chants of "Obi". A little taste of the future.

Welpee wrote:As predicted no matter what Obi does some will always double down on their hateraid.

The pick makes absolutely no sense. I wish the kid well in general as it seems like he's a good person and a hard worker and I hope he proves all his critics wrong. For the sake of our beloved team, I hope he defies all questions about him and turns into a stone cold killer on the court.

But the Knicks cannot afford to take these kind of risks with their lottery picks. The Knicks are going to pick in the early 20s range in the upcoming draft. As the Knicks step forward, their draft position falls. It's harder to find impact players that way. That means you need to make your early lottery picks count when you do get them. Many Knicks fans have taken that concept for granted because this team has lost so many games for so long, it's just expected to always get the 8th-10th type picks.

The Knicks missed on Frank N. They missed on Knox. The Zinger pick created a lot of problems but no one can blame them for how that all went out of control. But the reality of the situation is the team tries to play it cute when it makes more sense to play it straight. There are specifics types of players and roles and skills that help teams win. You focus on that as an organization. The Knicks often just make **** harder than it needs to be.

There are actual homeless people who struggle and claw to find a regular job type job and get cleaned up and just try to find a safe place to live and retake some semblance of human dignity. You know what they shouldn't do? Spend their first hard earned paycheck on some mother ****ing golf clubs. Do you golf? No. Then what the **** are you doing with some golf clubs when the priority is resetting your life straight?

You can like Obi Toppin as a person and understand he's doing the best he can and still hate the pick in terms of how it was used. Those things can actually be mutually exclusive. No one hates Obi Toppin directly. That kind of talk just avoids the team of elephants just sitting in the room. Ignore them if you wish, they won't go away.

Ski Racks and Golf Clubs, seriously, what the ****? How hard do the Knicks have to make this upon themselves?

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

TPercy wrote:I have no idea what Obi’s future is. On paper it dosent look great but we’ve seen players like him make dramatic improvements. Good thing is we don’t need him to be a world beater. Just need a solid backup PF..

Im glad I watched terrible basketball for 66 games to draft a back-up PF. Thats a horrendus use of assets

Obi won’t be a backup much longer

Obi Toppin gains confidence with every shift.

Fluid. Fast. Flexible and fun to watch.

Was that a Connie Hawkins finger roll?

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

TPercy wrote:I have no idea what Obi’s future is. On paper it dosent look great but we’ve seen players like him make dramatic improvements. Good thing is we don’t need him to be a world beater. Just need a solid backup PF..

Im glad I watched terrible basketball for 66 games to draft a back-up PF. Thats a horrendus use of assets

Obi won’t be a backup much longer

So are you suggesting he will be a starting center here soon? Or traded and starting at PF elsewhere. Because otherwise i don't see it.