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Chandler
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2/7/2020  9:39 AM
reasons to be cheerful, part III

Recap:
part I: fizzdale fired
part II: Mills fired

part III: 6 first rounds picks and multiple seconds. these can be packaged to move up (e.g., from 5 to 3 ala Luka) or to build depth

now we just need a vision for the team, a FO who can execute that vision, and a COach who can coach and not screw things up.

(5)(7)
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SupremeCommander
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2/7/2020  9:43 AM
Chandler wrote:reasons to be cheerful, part III

Recap:
part I: fizzdale fired
part II: Mills fired

part III: 6 first rounds picks and multiple seconds. these can be packaged to move up (e.g., from 5 to 3 ala Luka) or to build depth

now we just need a vision for the team, a FO who can execute that vision, and a COach who can coach and not screw things up.

so I want to add to this because this is the freshest I've felt about the Knicks in sometime.

Leon Rose dealt with all the franchises and he has an idea what a bad franchise looks like and he has an idea what a good franchise looks like.

Scott Perry seems to be held in high esteem and I think he understands what the team needs.

As you said in part III, there is certainly ammunition available to succeed

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
CrushAlot
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2/7/2020  11:14 AM
Chandler wrote:reasons to be cheerful, part III

Recap:
part I: fizzdale fired
part II: Mills fired

part III: 6 first rounds picks and multiple seconds. these can be packaged to move up (e.g., from 5 to 3 ala Luka) or to build depth

now we just need a vision for the team, a FO who can execute that vision, and a COach who can coach and not screw things up.

I think they might have that coach in Miller.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
martin
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2/7/2020  11:23 AM
Chandler wrote:reasons to be cheerful, part III

Recap:
part I: fizzdale fired
part II: Mills fired

part III: 6 first rounds picks and multiple seconds. these can be packaged to move up (e.g., from 5 to 3 ala Luka) or to build depth

now we just need a vision for the team, a FO who can execute that vision, and a COach who can coach and not screw things up.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

2020 Own First round pick
2020 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
2020 second round draft pick from Charlotte

2021 Own first round pick
2021 first round draft pick from Dallas
2021 second round draft pick from Charlotte
2021 second round draft pick from Detroit

2022 Own first round pick
2022 Own second round pick

2023 Own first round pick
2023 first round draft pick from Dallas
2023 Own second round pick

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Chandler
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2/7/2020  12:57 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Chandler wrote:reasons to be cheerful, part III

Recap:
part I: fizzdale fired
part II: Mills fired

part III: 6 first rounds picks and multiple seconds. these can be packaged to move up (e.g., from 5 to 3 ala Luka) or to build depth

now we just need a vision for the team, a FO who can execute that vision, and a COach who can coach and not screw things up.

I think they might have that coach in Miller.

I agree!! I like the guy and at the beginning of the season wanted him analogizing to Nick Nurse's success. We can only hope to be that lucky.

personally i want the boring type who when interviewed turns all answers to be about the team etc, rather than the type of person who answers how he is going to set this player right, or how he's going to be the smartest guy in the room with some crazy lineup. Give the praise to the players; you take the blame; and just coach!!

i have to imagine that some of Dolan's ire about Mills had to be that Mills let Budenholzer go (who i would give two 1sts for) so he could hire Fizz instead, only to have fizz thoroughly out-coached by Miller (a G leaguer)

If Perry was involved in those same coach decisions (i have no clue) he should be sprucing up his resume (though i don't think that will help much) because that's a pretty bad indictment

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meloshouldgo
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2/7/2020  4:24 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:looks like a FRP and this guy (who's got nice #s on a winning team in EU)
https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Yusuf-Sanon/Summary/95051

With all the losing, feel like so many Knick fans have become satisfied with talking about useless blue collar question marks, second round picks, end of bench roster spots, high effort guys that average 3 points a year but "play good defense".

IMO. Kuzma or Shamet would have been a good day. Some second round euro and a 30 pick for Morris is not.

Dude you have to be realistic we weren’t getting kuzma or shamet for a rental. Also nobody is “satisfied”. We want to win. But we are glad they aren’t making stupid moves like the previous GMs did. Yes I know things aren’t great right now but it’s gonna get better. I’d rather keep gathering assets we can use later on.

Question i posed. When do we start keeping really good players?

When they start fitting our timeline.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
CrushAlot
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2/8/2020  2:20 PM
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Uptown
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2/8/2020  3:02 PM
CrushAlot wrote:

Was just about to post this...Perry might prove to be the experienced GM that Rose needs.
Kemet
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2/8/2020  7:51 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I would have hoped for Shamet and a 1st. I would have been fine with Shamet and no picks. I'm very lukewarm on just the late pick. I get the whole idea of getting something at all, but still it's tough to swallow in a weak draft with very little average return on a late first as it is. Hopefully we get lucky or can cash out the picks in a big move during the draft.
again they said Shamet was off limits for a rental. We got a first rounder, a high second rounder, and an intriguing euro prospect. Pretty good haul for a guy we can resign again

Yeah no doubt it could have been worse. It was underwhelming but under the circumstances i can see the value.

how was it underwhelming? Anytime you can get a first, a high second, a prospect, don’t have to take on a long contract for a rental it’s a good deal


How many first round picks the Knicks had on the team in the past 3 to 4 seasons?
How many head coaches changes the Knicks had in the past 4 to 5 seasons?
How well did the Knicks development season look for their young-core players after the 17 win season?
The Knicks spent over $70M in the offseason on several FA to rebuild a team having veterans & young-core players for the 2019-20 season. The best 2-Way performing player on the Knicks roster the first half of the 2019-20 season were Marcus Morris Sr.
If Morris did not decline other winning teams offers in the 2019 offseason to sign with the Knicks, the Knicks would be another 17 win season team in the 2019-20 season. Marcus Morris type of performance and lockerroom discipline were the best investment the Knicks made for the growth of the Knicks getting a IDENTITY, and the growth of the Knicks young-core players, since the offseason the Knicks signed Jason Kidd and the Old-Timers.

The Knicks coaching-staff the past 5 season Graded a big F for FAILURE.
The Knicks development program for young-core players the past 5 season graded a big F for FAILURE too.
In the past 4 seasons the Knicks had a 32 win season, then a 31 win season, then a 29 win season, then a 17 win season, having several first round draft picks on their roster each season.


What good are any of the first round draft pick to a clueless losing organization that never invest on the growth of their young-core players ???
Players DeAndre Jordan and Marcus Morris short Knick visit deserve a 4 year $$$ extension contract.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed
2020 Own First round pick
2020 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
2020 second round draft pick from Charlotte
2021 Own first round pick
2021 first round draft pick from Dallas
2021 second round draft pick from Charlotte
2021 second round draft pick from Detroit
2022 Own first round pick
2022 Own second round pick
2023 Own first round pick
2023 first round draft pick from Dallas
2023 Own second round pick
StarksEwing1
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2/8/2020  8:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/8/2020  8:29 PM
Kemet wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I would have hoped for Shamet and a 1st. I would have been fine with Shamet and no picks. I'm very lukewarm on just the late pick. I get the whole idea of getting something at all, but still it's tough to swallow in a weak draft with very little average return on a late first as it is. Hopefully we get lucky or can cash out the picks in a big move during the draft.
again they said Shamet was off limits for a rental. We got a first rounder, a high second rounder, and an intriguing euro prospect. Pretty good haul for a guy we can resign again

Yeah no doubt it could have been worse. It was underwhelming but under the circumstances i can see the value.

how was it underwhelming? Anytime you can get a first, a high second, a prospect, don’t have to take on a long contract for a rental it’s a good deal


How many first round picks the Knicks had on the team in the past 3 to 4 seasons?
How many head coaches changes the Knicks had in the past 4 to 5 seasons?
How well did the Knicks development season look for their young-core players after the 17 win season?
The Knicks spent over $70M in the offseason on several FA to rebuild a team having veterans & young-core players for the 2019-20 season. The best 2-Way performing player on the Knicks roster the first half of the 2019-20 season were Marcus Morris Sr.
If Morris did not decline other winning teams offers in the 2019 offseason to sign with the Knicks, the Knicks would be another 17 win season team in the 2019-20 season. Marcus Morris type of performance and lockerroom discipline were the best investment the Knicks made for the growth of the Knicks getting a IDENTITY, and the growth of the Knicks young-core players, since the offseason the Knicks signed Jason Kidd and the Old-Timers.

The Knicks coaching-staff the past 5 season Graded a big F for FAILURE.
The Knicks development program for young-core players the past 5 season graded a big F for FAILURE too.
In the past 4 seasons the Knicks had a 32 win season, then a 31 win season, then a 29 win season, then a 17 win season, having several first round draft picks on their roster each season.


What good are any of the first round draft pick to a clueless losing organization that never invest on the growth of their young-core players ???
Players DeAndre Jordan and Marcus Morris short Knick visit deserve a 4 year $$$ extension contract.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed
2020 Own First round pick
2020 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
2020 second round draft pick from Charlotte
2021 Own first round pick
2021 first round draft pick from Dallas
2021 second round draft pick from Charlotte
2021 second round draft pick from Detroit
2022 Own first round pick
2022 Own second round pick
2023 Own first round pick
2023 first round draft pick from Dallas
2023 Own second round pick

Disagree. What did you want them to do lose Morris for nothing?
BigDaddyG
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2/8/2020  11:16 PM
Yeah, the Lakers pulled Kuz off the table

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/lakers-offered-kyle-kuzma-and-then-some-to-knicks-for-marcus-morris-report/312695634

According to the LA Times, the Lakers and Knicks failed to come to an agreement, but the report indicates the Lakers were willing to give up some pieces. Those were reportedly Kyle Kuzma and Danny Green, but the Knicks said no.
From there, the report states "the Knicks then countered with a deal centered around Kuzma, Avery Bradley, DeMarcus Cousins and at least one second-round pick." The Lakers said no to that, and the deal never happened.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
wargames
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2/9/2020  8:34 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:Yeah, the Lakers pulled Kuz off the table

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/lakers-offered-kyle-kuzma-and-then-some-to-knicks-for-marcus-morris-report/312695634

According to the LA Times, the Lakers and Knicks failed to come to an agreement, but the report indicates the Lakers were willing to give up some pieces. Those were reportedly Kyle Kuzma and Danny Green, but the Knicks said no.
From there, the report states "the Knicks then countered with a deal centered around Kuzma, Avery Bradley, DeMarcus Cousins and at least one second-round pick." The Lakers said no to that, and the deal never happened.

This report doesn’t say if the first deal included us sending them Robinson. I am pretty sure it did.

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Nalod
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2/9/2020  8:52 AM
I read we were trying to move green to another team. Knicks did great in that they took no contracts back.
Kermut, The past does not matter. While Phil and Mills did not so great things they kept to a plan. We have about the lowest payroll and outside of OKC (who has the albatross CP# contract)we have the greatest inventory of picks. All very knick like. We building a foundation. What you mention sucked and the future holds no guarantee. I’m not defending MIlls or Phil but its ok to take stock in what is good. A lot moving with Rose is confidence to build with that cap and pick inventory. FRee agents and Trades are tools also. MIlls lacked the leadership to pull it off and determined to not be the guy going forward.
That Morris came has to give credit to the plan, that he was our best player and gave us trade assets is a credit to the plan. That we have duplicated last years win total small as it is is progress.
And yet Mills still had to go. I’m good with it all. I choose to follow this team for entertainment purpose, not mire in misery. When its bad, I shake my head and move on. Some of us have fun watching the yooth struggle and find themselves. Barrett and Mitch have been a joy to watch this year. Knox and Frank statistically not but they have improved in how they are achieving those stats.
We know the ugly. We saw it. There are good things happening and the team fights on most nights. I like what’s going on.
BigDaddyG
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2/9/2020  3:29 PM
wargames wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:Yeah, the Lakers pulled Kuz off the table

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/lakers-offered-kyle-kuzma-and-then-some-to-knicks-for-marcus-morris-report/312695634

According to the LA Times, the Lakers and Knicks failed to come to an agreement, but the report indicates the Lakers were willing to give up some pieces. Those were reportedly Kyle Kuzma and Danny Green, but the Knicks said no.
From there, the report states "the Knicks then countered with a deal centered around Kuzma, Avery Bradley, DeMarcus Cousins and at least one second-round pick." The Lakers said no to that, and the deal never happened.

This report doesn’t say if the first deal included us sending them Robinson. I am pretty sure it did.


I don't know. I'm just laughing at how the Lakers always make excuses and backtrack when they both a trade.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
MS
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2/10/2020  9:48 PM
I’m still confused why we turned down Kuzma and Green. I understand Green has $15MM next year, but it’s a dead year for free agents anyway. His contract because valuable at the deadline again for a contender and 3D guys are always at a premium.

Still feel like Kuzma nets a much better first rounder next season than the one we got from the clippers. His $2MM salary becomes a nice asset to attach to DSJR if we are looking to move up in the draft or make a bigger trade. Minnesota can always be inclined to do something stupid.
smackeddog
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2/11/2020  12:43 PM
Clips pick is now at the 25th spot. Clips are on 37-16, and the two teams behind them at 24th and 23rd are Utah and Miami with 35-18
fishmike
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2/11/2020  3:08 PM
smackeddog wrote:Clips pick is now at the 25th spot. Clips are on 37-16, and the two teams behind them at 24th and 23rd are Utah and Miami with 35-18
that pick has great potential. There are tons of guys who fall for various reason but can simply play. When its your second pick in the draft it really lets you just find a good player.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
joec32033
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2/11/2020  3:12 PM
MS wrote:I’m still confused why we turned down Kuzma and Green. I understand Green has $15MM next year, but it’s a dead year for free agents anyway. His contract because valuable at the deadline again for a contender and 3D guys are always at a premium.

Still feel like Kuzma nets a much better first rounder next season than the one we got from the clippers. His $2MM salary becomes a nice asset to attach to DSJR if we are looking to move up in the draft or make a bigger trade. Minnesota can always be inclined to do something stupid.

I still would've wanted a first. But I would've given the Trier. Morris, Trier for Green, Kuzma and a first. Then I would've shipped Green to the Clippers for Harkless and a 1st.

~You can't run from who you are.~
martin
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2/11/2020  3:12 PM
fishmike wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Clips pick is now at the 25th spot. Clips are on 37-16, and the two teams behind them at 24th and 23rd are Utah and Miami with 35-18
that pick has great potential. There are tons of guys who fall for various reason but can simply play. When its your second pick in the draft it really lets you just find a good player.

And right now Knicks got #5, #25 and #36.

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Knixkik
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2/11/2020  3:17 PM
martin wrote:
fishmike wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Clips pick is now at the 25th spot. Clips are on 37-16, and the two teams behind them at 24th and 23rd are Utah and Miami with 35-18
that pick has great potential. There are tons of guys who fall for various reason but can simply play. When its your second pick in the draft it really lets you just find a good player.

And right now Knicks got #5, #25 and #36.


That's not bad at all. Some quick targets for me:

5- Cole Anthony or Haliburton
25- Nwora/Cassius Stanley/Saddiq Bey/Nesmith
36- Isaiah Joe/Tillie/Wesson
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