Vmart wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:ITs spiraling out of control. Its like our worst nightmares keep occurring when. Letter grade to fans gives no credence to logic making the emotional the voice of reason in this abysmal decline.
I’m turning off games when they fall back 20 pts. Last night the had a nice 1st quarter. BY half I turned it off.
Even Clyde is getting sickened. Only one happy thru this is KP and The Rainman who gets to gloat.

I don’t think even knicks1248 thought it would be THIS bad. Pretty sure even he thought we would be competitive in every game but still kinda suck. I know I was way off with my predictions. I am with you though. I shut it off at halftime.

This team is really that bad.
Organization have to pay for decades of stupidity and scam.
Firing everyone and anyone will do nothing about it.
We need to get and grow some NBA players.
This trees take years to grow after planting.

They got there but handed by a team with one lottery pick. The Knicks players are not bad players they are being jerked around and taught BS all day and everyday. Get better coaching and the players will execute and play better.

Better coaching will do wonders for the players.

The biggest telling fact that FIzdale is a terrible coach, most of the players on the roster are having career worse yrs statistically. Mitch numbers are almost flat line, Morris is the one player who is actually having a Career yr. Even frank who is playing 7 more minutes than last yr, has barely shown any improvement, from FGA, Ast, shooting percentage, FTA.

This is no different from last yr when Mudiay was the only player to show improvement.

How long will Dolan allow his players to endure this toxic environment?

As it stands we will have a top 5-7 lotto pick. Will have cap again for another FA group after we turnover all of this one(yay another built in excuse). Yet we can't trust the player evaluation process for the players to be brought into the org apparently. Or the developmental process to mold a groom the players brought in.

I will offer some positive though, that the cap is flexible, we have all our first rd picks as well as 2 more additional first round picks. Maybe that is all this regime is capable of achieving and Knicks can now go after a regime that can take this and move forward toward the progressive steps that we need to be going towards. Phil for his faults started the path of keeping picks and for the most part flexible cap. Pills for their faults continued the path and added some picks(with the sacrfice of KP) and flexible cap. Now we need the next regime to come in and take that next step.

This **** show has been more than just THE Coach. If that is the case then bring back the only winning coach we have had since 2001.

With that said, Fiz is gone. Will be the scapegoat and quite frankly, players not responding anymore. But that is because they clearly heard the narrative that Fiz was the problem from the media and the FO. Problem is that as seen by list above, is a long way from being the solution to turning this franchise around. I do hope they get some assets back from the $70 million spent and we go back to playing the kids. The big change will be if we get someone like Ujiri to come in here and clean up the mess. The bad news, is once again, fans will be waiting for years.

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:ITs spiraling out of control. Its like our worst nightmares keep occurring when. Letter grade to fans gives no credence to logic making the emotional the voice of reason in this abysmal decline.
I’m turning off games when they fall back 20 pts. Last night the had a nice 1st quarter. BY half I turned it off.
Even Clyde is getting sickened. Only one happy thru this is KP and The Rainman who gets to gloat.

I don’t think even knicks1248 thought it would be THIS bad. Pretty sure even he thought we would be competitive in every game but still kinda suck. I know I was way off with my predictions. I am with you though. I shut it off at halftime.

This team is really that bad.
Organization have to pay for decades of stupidity and scam.
Firing everyone and anyone will do nothing about it.
We need to get and grow some NBA players.
This trees take years to grow after planting.

They got there but handed by a team with one lottery pick. The Knicks players are not bad players they are being jerked around and taught BS all day and everyday. Get better coaching and the players will execute and play better.

Better coaching will do wonders for the players.

The biggest telling fact that FIzdale is a terrible coach, most of the players on the roster are having career worse yrs statistically. Mitch numbers are almost flat line, Morris is the one player who is actually having a Career yr. Even frank who is playing 7 more minutes than last yr, has barely shown any improvement, from FGA, Ast, shooting percentage, FTA.

This is no different from last yr when Mudiay was the only player to show improvement.

How long will Dolan allow his players to endure this toxic environment?

We do not have any good players.
On contender team only Morris may be a starter considering no all star players are starting at his position.
Most of our roster will not even come from the bench except of junk time and injury/situational need.
Youngster we have will be developing in GL or at practice time. No one is ready for show time.

HofstraBBall wrote: Don Chaney 2001–2004 72 112
20 Herb Williams* 2004 1 1 0
21 Lenny Wilkens 2004–2005 40 41 One of the top 10 coaches in NBA history[4]
— Herb Williams* 2005 43 16 27
22 Larry Brown 2005–2006 23 59
23 Isiah Thomas 2006–2008 56 108
24 Mike D'Antoni 2008–2012 121 167
25 Mike Woodson 2012–2014 109 79
26 Derek Fisher* 2014–2016 40 96
27 Kurt Rambis 2016 9 19
28 Jeff Hornacek 2016–2018 60 104
29 David Fizdale 2018-2019 21 83

This **** show has been more than just THE Coach. If that is the case then bring back the only winning coach we have had since 2001.

With that said, Fiz is gone. Will be the scapegoat and quite frankly, players not responding anymore. But that is because they clearly heard the narrative that Fiz was the problem from the media and the FO. Problem is that as seen by list above, is a long way from being the solution to turning this franchise around. I do hope they get some assets back from the $70 million spent and we go back to playing the kids. The big change will be if we get someone like Ujiri to come in here and clean up the mess. The bad news, is once again, fans will be waiting for years.

This is the problem right here, we played the young guys extensive minutes for the last 3 months of the season last yr, we let them play through their Mistakes and look what happen, little to no improvement, this yr, and nobody was brought back

Good teams that know how to develop don't do this, they know that sending young players out there to play YMCA basketball and let them make a 100 mistakes, is just how you develop bad habits, is not conducive to winning and developing.

How many expiring contracts have this front office traded...NONE, they all got waived to sign with who ever they please, they were so busy thinking that Cap flexibility was the answer to their problems, and they couldn't have been so wrong.

arkrud wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Don Chaney 2001–2004 72 112
20 Herb Williams* 2004 1 1 0
21 Lenny Wilkens 2004–2005 40 41 One of the top 10 coaches in NBA history[4]
— Herb Williams* 2005 43 16 27
22 Larry Brown 2005–2006 23 59
23 Isiah Thomas 2006–2008 56 108
24 Mike D'Antoni 2008–2012 121 167
25 Mike Woodson 2012–2014 109 79
26 Derek Fisher* 2014–2016 40 96
27 Kurt Rambis 2016 9 19
28 Jeff Hornacek 2016–2018 60 104
29 David Fizdale 2018-2019 21 83

This **** show has been more than just THE Coach. If that is the case then bring back the only winning coach we have had since 2001.

With that said, Fiz is gone. Will be the scapegoat and quite frankly, players not responding anymore. But that is because they clearly heard the narrative that Fiz was the problem from the media and the FO. Problem is that as seen by list above, is a long way from being the solution to turning this franchise around. I do hope they get some assets back from the $70 million spent and we go back to playing the kids. The big change will be if we get someone like Ujiri to come in here and clean up the mess. The bad news, is once again, fans will be waiting for years.

Exactly true and very likely except of FO change.
Its not like they are great but Dolan will not get anybody better on-board.
We can find some development-only coach from NBA assistants pule or college with motivation to seize the opportunity and get NBA head-coaching job..
But this will not improve the record as some fans hope.

Are you suggesting that there's nobody in the basketball world that's better than MILLs, Perry and Fizdale.

As soon as you can come to grips with these FACTS

1)MILLS IS HERE BECAUSE HE IS DOLANS BFF

2)Perry is here because he is black, and a PUPPET yes man

3)FIZdale is also here because he's black and a cool guy.

NONE OF THEM are here because they are very good at their jobs....

they INTERVIEWED 11 coaches and look at the choice they made.

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Don Chaney 2001–2004 72 112
20 Herb Williams* 2004 1 1 0
21 Lenny Wilkens 2004–2005 40 41 One of the top 10 coaches in NBA history[4]
— Herb Williams* 2005 43 16 27
22 Larry Brown 2005–2006 23 59
23 Isiah Thomas 2006–2008 56 108
24 Mike D'Antoni 2008–2012 121 167
25 Mike Woodson 2012–2014 109 79
26 Derek Fisher* 2014–2016 40 96
27 Kurt Rambis 2016 9 19
28 Jeff Hornacek 2016–2018 60 104
29 David Fizdale 2018-2019 21 83

This **** show has been more than just THE Coach. If that is the case then bring back the only winning coach we have had since 2001.

With that said, Fiz is gone. Will be the scapegoat and quite frankly, players not responding anymore. But that is because they clearly heard the narrative that Fiz was the problem from the media and the FO. Problem is that as seen by list above, is a long way from being the solution to turning this franchise around. I do hope they get some assets back from the $70 million spent and we go back to playing the kids. The big change will be if we get someone like Ujiri to come in here and clean up the mess. The bad news, is once again, fans will be waiting for years.

Always felt Don Chaney did a quality job when he was here. He pulled out 37 win season with Spree-Houston-KT and Shanvis Eisleyspoon. He was done dirty by Isiah Thomas in order to get Wilkens in.

Wilkens & Brown butted heads with Marbury, MDA butted heads with Melo, Fisher butted heads with Phil, Woodson and Hornacek were let go due to regime changes.

Other than MDA's first few yrs as coach though. Fiz has been in a rare positon towards what have been asked of previous head coaches which was playoffs or bust while the FO saddle strapped the team with ugly long term contracts and traded away all its youth and future draft picks.

we have traded 2 picks in the last 11 yrs, once in the melo trade and one in the Bargiani trade.

we have yet to resign any draft pick since charlie ward 20+ yrs ago

arkrud wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:ITs spiraling out of control. Its like our worst nightmares keep occurring when. Letter grade to fans gives no credence to logic making the emotional the voice of reason in this abysmal decline.
I’m turning off games when they fall back 20 pts. Last night the had a nice 1st quarter. BY half I turned it off.
Even Clyde is getting sickened. Only one happy thru this is KP and The Rainman who gets to gloat.

I don’t think even knicks1248 thought it would be THIS bad. Pretty sure even he thought we would be competitive in every game but still kinda suck. I know I was way off with my predictions. I am with you though. I shut it off at halftime.

This team is really that bad.
Organization have to pay for decades of stupidity and scam.
Firing everyone and anyone will do nothing about it.
We need to get and grow some NBA players.
This trees take years to grow after planting.

They got there but handed by a team with one lottery pick. The Knicks players are not bad players they are being jerked around and taught BS all day and everyday. Get better coaching and the players will execute and play better.

Better coaching will do wonders for the players.

The biggest telling fact that FIzdale is a terrible coach, most of the players on the roster are having career worse yrs statistically. Mitch numbers are almost flat line, Morris is the one player who is actually having a Career yr. Even frank who is playing 7 more minutes than last yr, has barely shown any improvement, from FGA, Ast, shooting percentage, FTA.

This is no different from last yr when Mudiay was the only player to show improvement.

How long will Dolan allow his players to endure this toxic environment?

We do not have any good players.
On contender team only Morris may be a starter considering no all star players are starting at his position.
Most of our roster will not even come from the bench except of junk time and injury/situational need.
Youngster we have will be developing in GL or at practice time. No one is ready for show time.

We have good kids. They just haven’t been exposed to good coaching.

How about this:

Prior to Thursday's game vs the Nuggets the Knicks trio of top-10 picks RJ Barrett, Frank Ntilikina, and Kevin Knox has played a total of 58 minutes together. Those three plus Mitchell Robinson have shared the floor for 15 minutes all season. Allonzo Trier almost made All-Rookie 2nd team and now he gets DNPs.

All of last year's development has amounted to diddly-squat this year. Same coach. Worse record. The guy is doing a bad job by any metric. You don't REWARD incompetence with more opportunity to squander.

Sambakick wrote:What is the purpose to firing Fiz?

How about this:

Prior to Thursday's game vs the Nuggets the Knicks trio of top-10 picks RJ Barrett, Frank Ntilikina, and Kevin Knox has played a total of 58 minutes together. Those three plus Mitchell Robinson have shared the floor for 15 minutes all season. Allonzo Trier almost made All-Rookie 2nd team and now he gets DNPs.

All of last year's development has amounted to diddly-squat this year. Same coach. Worse record. The guy is doing a bad job by any metric. You don't REWARD incompetence with more opportunity to squander.

wow, shocking

Vmart wrote:

arkrud wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:ITs spiraling out of control. Its like our worst nightmares keep occurring when. Letter grade to fans gives no credence to logic making the emotional the voice of reason in this abysmal decline.
I’m turning off games when they fall back 20 pts. Last night the had a nice 1st quarter. BY half I turned it off.
Even Clyde is getting sickened. Only one happy thru this is KP and The Rainman who gets to gloat.

I don’t think even knicks1248 thought it would be THIS bad. Pretty sure even he thought we would be competitive in every game but still kinda suck. I know I was way off with my predictions. I am with you though. I shut it off at halftime.

This team is really that bad.
Organization have to pay for decades of stupidity and scam.
Firing everyone and anyone will do nothing about it.
We need to get and grow some NBA players.
This trees take years to grow after planting.

They got there but handed by a team with one lottery pick. The Knicks players are not bad players they are being jerked around and taught BS all day and everyday. Get better coaching and the players will execute and play better.

Better coaching will do wonders for the players.

The biggest telling fact that FIzdale is a terrible coach, most of the players on the roster are having career worse yrs statistically. Mitch numbers are almost flat line, Morris is the one player who is actually having a Career yr. Even frank who is playing 7 more minutes than last yr, has barely shown any improvement, from FGA, Ast, shooting percentage, FTA.

This is no different from last yr when Mudiay was the only player to show improvement.

How long will Dolan allow his players to endure this toxic environment?

We do not have any good players.
On contender team only Morris may be a starter considering no all star players are starting at his position.
Most of our roster will not even come from the bench except of junk time and injury/situational need.
Youngster we have will be developing in GL or at practice time. No one is ready for show time.

We have good kids. They just haven’t been exposed to good coaching.

Good prospects with opportunity to be good.
And this is 90% on them not on coaches and organization.
It is naive to think that stars are made by coaches.
Coaches making team out of stars and support cast.
But first they need to get the material.