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knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
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fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:knicks1248 wrote:martin wrote:knicks1248 wrote:martin wrote:knicks1248 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:knicks1248 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:Trey had the ball about every possession. He should have that many assists.
Im not buying the hype bought on by Curry tearing it up in the finals. Fans like to assimilate whats in front of them.
I want him if he is curry. we all saw Bobby Hurley struggle in the NBA. He might have over come his size and developed and we'll never know. Bobby had a great team (young does not) around him and he was winner.
Trae Young was awesome then he was not. This is a concern.
Not sure he even lasts until 9th. If there, who is not?
Im top three baring any Michael Porter or other suprise is:Wendel Carter
Mikal Bridges
Trae Young. My take is teams make a list, then go with whose at the top of it when its time.
If Danny Ainge calls don't even take it. You dont get two points for passing the ball. Someone has to make it. Id buy the stat stuffer inference, if Young didnt lead the NCAA in assists. You guys make it sound like its so easy, problem is that Young did it first. Hurley was T-Boned by a station wagon his rookie year. Never was the same player physically. Young expending all his energy on offense in all likelihood took away from his defense. Wouldnt have that issue on a team with KP. I see Sexton or Young at 9, Id like to see Perry/Mills pick one of them. KP needs all the help he can get while the team rebuilds. The alternative is paying through the nose in free agency. Burke is the only real offensive threat at PG right now. Its much easier to lead in assists when there is no pressure to take care of the ball. There is nothing good about Young's A:TO ratio. Its horrific. The problem with Young's stats is the volume it took to collect them. Also there is this:
Young shot 22.8 percent (28-of-123) in his final 11 games. He missed 21 straight 3-pointers during a three-game span. The Sooners lost nine of their last 11, including first-round exits in the Big 12 and NCAA Tournaments. You arent even drafting Young on a great freshman season. You are doing it on a HALF of one. This is less me killing Young and more about looking at better options on the board. If it were all question marks maybe Young makes more sense. There will be good NBA players at 9. Thats just not true, look at the talent level of his teamates. If the assists are no big deal because of the volume, the turnovers shouldnt bother you either for the same reason, volume. The kid is a freshman pushing the envelope on offense, not surprised about the growing pains. We arent tslking about a blue chip athlete surrounded by blue chip athletes on an elite team. A freshman who can get this much out of his team is remarkable. The last 11 games where everyone knew how dangerous a player Young is, and maybe combined with some burnout from having defenses focus mainly on him, with little help was too much. Frank's pro experience (off the bench) was hyped endlessly here. What Young did was much more impressive. Question for anyone entering the league is what skills will translate to the NBA and what flaws will ruin them. We all try to make educated guess on what will translate and what will ruin them. Young's size is a legit concern into the question of will his skills be able to translate at NBA level efficiently. His teammates will be better but so will the level of comp and quality of athletes. Its really anyone's guess to how Young's career will turn out. Odds aren't in his favor though. For me personally, scoring guards come every year. Would rather value unique skills that are harder to acquire. Such as Wendal Carter who can shoot, post, pass, rebound, defend on the switch, 6'10 with a 7'3 WS, offers overall tons of flexibility for his coach. Probably even go the safer route with Bridges if it comes down to them 2 as at least another piece added to the 2-way collection. Young does offer some uniqueness to his game. Making him more interesting than the usual scoring guard will give him that. With Frank, he got promoted to the starting spot half way through the season as the youngest player in the league. And with him as the starter his team went to the championship game. During the championship game Frank looked like the best player on his team. But again that stuff doesn't matter as much as what can translate to the NBA. Frank at 6'5 7ft wingspan and a good foundation of fundamentals and principals with pros at age 18 vs grown ups offered a better translatable vision in the NBA then Young does. Young may be such a talent that he is greater than his deficiencies(again against the odds). I guess that's what these workouts and interviews will start to determine for front office personnel. Young has apparently bulked up some since the Tourney. The specifics are in the last link I posted. Also Mills quote from the post: Trae] is a little bit bigger than he looked on the court,’’ Mills added in his first remarks about any of the 2018 draft prospects. “You look at what he did with the players he had around him and what he did at the start of the season. You have to say this guy has a chance to be a special player.’’ With a 5"9 (maybe) Isaiah Thomas having the season he did before his hip went out. I dont find size a compelling reason to pass on a 6'2 Young who is putting on muscle. Who looks faster than Thomas. Only 19, might grow a little more. If he were to fall to 9 where even PG craved teams like Orlando or Cleveland pass on him. Or teams like Philly or LAC don't make a move for him. It would most likely be due to the size issue. If he is that talented and size isn't much of an issue for him. Then we have no shot at him. The only way he falls is if teams are scared off by his size. Its also would be in the Knicks best interest to talk him up if they want another team to make a play for him. If they really want him they should be acting like they aren't interested publicly but offering him promises quietly. Or it could be how Young ended the season. Other teams passing on Young isnt a good enough reason to do the same. Other teams passing on him is a strong indication that they view his size as a problem and us fans aren't the only ones who are concerned about it. How he finished the season doesn't matter as much as the question was he exposed? Will his game be able to translate at NBA level? Will his positive outweigh the possible liability he could be on defense. D'Russell was the next Curry before Young. Right now Russell is an inefficient scorer with limited defensive cappabilites. If young is the most talented player on the board. I would look to trade him for high value. Again this is of course unless he wows in his workout and puts our concerns to rest. But I wouldn't draft a player strictly for his potential positive while completely ignoring the negative. Russell was putting up 20/7 before he got hurt his first season in Brooklyn. Really silly posters are still talking about him like he was a bust. Better defender than you claim. No one is ignoring anything, just not placing the same emphasis on the holes in a 19 year old's game when he has much more going for him skillwise. Look at the article Crush posted from Nylon Calculus. There is more to the effect Trae had on his team than you claim. Don't care about the points as much as how efficient he was combined with his defense. Remember reading articles about his coach criticizing for shot selection and defensive effort. Him dropping 20-7 just means he can produce volume on a bad team as a featured player. All in all your saying its not justifiable to not draft him at 9 if he is there. I just don't agree with that. As its not even guaranteed that his best ability is able to translate into the nessesary level of efficiency at the NBA level. If that's the case then what? I'm gonna check out that article your talking about. So your ok with drafting a kid who plays d but can't score, or make anyone better But your not ok with a kid who can score and make others better but a little suspect on defense. Thats being a hypocrite or just straight up Bias In the lottery, no I am not okay with a player that plays D but can't score or make anyone better. If that's what Frank resulted into then I would be disappointed. Those aren't my expectations for him so I can't say that that's what I am okay with. I don't mind the logic used for drafting him though. And making anyone better isn't just an offensive thing. If we drafted Young and Frank was asked to guard the tougher opponent that Young can't cover would that not be hiding Young's weakness? If Frank can guard an opponents best perimeter player. Would that not help ease the burden of other players from that responsibility? Is being #1 in PNR defense not making the job easier for KP from getting attacked by penetration leading to fouls? If Frank can successfully switch and guard from the PG to some PFs. Does that not make the job easier for Fizz's gameplan defensively. With Frank's defensive potential. Offensively all he would need to do is put up 36% 3pt shooting, and provide the ability to put the ball on the floor when the defense is off balance for drives and either layups or dishes which he is capable of both. We will see what level he is able to reach with his improved body and the work ethic he is putting in on that aspect of his game. And those are low end possibilities but due to his defensive potential that is mostly what he would need to be required to do to be an overall impact player. I am also okay with a kid who can score and make other better but a little suspect on defense because the overall impact would be a positive one. But the question about Young isn't if he is a little suspect on defense but if he is a liability. And the questions about Young is if his offensive game will translate to the NBA level at the level you described of being able to score and make other better in a highly efficient manner. Young offers 0 of defensive capabilities that Frank has the potential to offer in terms of guarding an opponents best perimeter player, guarding multiple positions, being able to handle himself on switches.
That was a general statement, I wasn't directing it at frank or Trae but since we're on the subject my thinking is this.
Having both would be great, having just one is awful because i can't afford to have frank on the floor avg 5 points and shooting horrible, and I can't afford to have trae on the floor letting every pg blow by him because he's small and fatigue from playing hero ball. I like Burke enough to Give him the nod to start, but having Trae, frank and Burke with FIZ as the coach in the offense he wants to run..that's a good look.. You need to project players and what they will become. GS would be horrible if Draymond played like he did in his rookie year, same with Curry. But they don't If you project Frank to be a pretty darn good PG who can run a team, make the right decisions, and lock down players, then drafting Trae (if his defense is deficient and you don't think his college play translates to the pro's) would be a waste of a pick. I just don't think frank is a full time PG, and because defense is more of his calling I would prefer him to spend most of his energy guarding the best guard on the opposing team, and not have to worry about running a high tempo offense. That's your prediction; you've pretty much locked him into what he showed last year. A team is more successful when ROLES are clearly Identify. That to me was the primary reason the development suffered and the overall production from the players were inconsistent as a MF. Once you become great at one thing, then you start to expand your game, That's what the greats do.
Roles? That would be the coach's problem, then...since they define the roles that players should have.I, and I think others around here, are somewhat astounded that you pencil in Frank's future performance based on last year's stats, as if he has no chance to develop. Honestly, this makes any discussion with you a non-starter, since physical and basketball maturation are clearly not recognized in your way of thinking. This is a player who is still growing and maturing physically, while at the same time trying to find his niche on the offensive end. We already know what he can do on D, and I expect him to improve more rapidly in that aspect of his game, but he still has to find his scoring role on the offensive end. We saw him going to the basket more at the end of the year, now I want to see him do that more often, learn to initiate contact when he drives, and to work on the pull-up mid-range jumper that I believe will be his go to means of scoring in the future. To believe that he will not improve, which is really what you are insinuating, is kind of ridiculous. One big mistake last year by Hornacek was not going full developmental after KP got hurt.
Frank and Dotson should have been playing 30MPG regardless of how they were playing, and I would have made sure that Mudiay and Burke also played regular minutes, as well as Kornet. Painful learning would have been good for all concerned, and perhaps we would have been picking earlier than #9. A player's game matures and grows with time, to think that what you see at age 19 is what you will see at 23 or 24 is foolish. David Lee, by the way, one of our own guys was a prime example of a player who added to his game each year...And he did so despite coming into the league at age 22. It can be done. I never said he can't become a better offensive player, don't be ridiculous. If you have Mutumbo and Ewing on the same team, do you worry about mutumbo putting up 10 to 15 shots a game, do you spend a ton of time trying to develop his 3 point shot, and even though Rodman put up solid points in college, he became a defensive rebounding monster, that was his calling. Im sure frank will become better offensively, and I'm sure trae will get better defensively, but frank will never be a scorer like trae, and trae will never be a defender like frank. AAU players don't translate into fundamental players, and Euro players don't develop into AAU type players, How many times have you heard KOBE and Jordan say that, it's a problem the NBA has to correct this makes like zero sense. First of all lets see Young play in the NBA. Comparing NCAA Young and Frank as a pro doesnt make sense. Hey 1248.. did you know Frank dropped 31 points in the championship FIBA game where he won MVP in the tourney? He shot 7-10 from 3. Looks pretty AAU to me. You just dont understand the culture and opt not to try you want to compare AAU to euro players to prove whatever point your trying to make go right ahead. I'm not going to entertaining that just because you purposely want to disagree with me. Like I said, rodman was scoring points in college as well It was a reason 6 out of the 8 players Phil drafted were Euro players, totally different way of learning and playing the game, you want to argue that, you would be a fool thanks for bringing up Rodman who was a 22 year old freshman for a community college and was 22, 23 and 24 while "scoring" in college. You really got your head around this one. what does age have to with it, Labron was 19 putting up big time numbers with no college and no NBA experience, so was KG.. Should I compare 19 yr old frank to 19 yr old labron. Age and experience are 2 different things, there plenty of 20 yr olds that are smarter than 30 yr olds Never to young to teach, and never to old to learn is the philosophy I live by ES
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6/6/2018 1:18 PM