knicks1248 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:either other rookies could care less, or he's not that good,

Arguably, one of the most ignorant conclusions you could have reached.

Already got shot down by folks here who concluded, quite logically, that not having seen Frank play in college or in the SL just might have hurt his chances in this survey.

But hey...don't let logic interfere with your position...right?

Oh...by the way, are the fans of ALL the teams which picked ahead of Dallas apoplectic over this survey? Everybody had a chance to pick Smith, one of the older players chosen in the lottery, I think, and about 2 years older than our guy. Are they up in arms over THEIR team not choosing him, since he seems to be a lock for ROY?

Might want to give Frenchie some time...no?

basically you called yourself ignorant by saying what I said in different words.

I already said other rookies have little to no knowledge of who he really is, neither do we, so wtf are you talking about?

In fact, we really don't know what any of the rookies will amount to

"or he's not that good." Not ignorant enough to make this statement YOU made though, am I.

Nothing I said puts me on your level, thankfully.

Nalod completely shot you down with the KP vote. The vote is meaningless, and considering Frenchie did not play in SL or at an American college, the vote becomes ridiculous as far as he is concerned.

Either you were trying to be provocative, or you have no idea of how to reason. Which one was it, bro.

He has possibly half the board(random measurement) trying to figure that out when he post. lol

Look, berman wrote the article, i posted the article because im sure we are all hoping frank turns out great.

Now because i said i would be livid (like thousands of other fans) if he turns out to be trash, one guy say's thats ignorant statement, another guy brings up kp's votes, i don't know what im talking about.

You guys are pretty much trolling because i never said i didn't like frank, never sided with the rookies or the article.

I don't write ignorant sht, just remember, i was the first to praise woodson when he took over, and the first to say he was done, first to call out fisher and put him on the hot seat, was on board with phil and one of the first to say he's not going to make it, and i was never on board with trading melo this off season. lOOK AT HOW IT ALL TURNS OUT..

certain sht you can see early, and some have accused me of been negative, but i hardly ever come back and say i told you this sht was going to happen. Some of you just take longer to realize the inevitable.

But just so you know..FRANK IS MY GUY RIGHT NOW, he' a knick, I'm hoping he's top 3 in his class. If he's not, heads will roll

I will be happy if Frank is a reliable two way player. Thats the minimum for me. We're setting ourselves up for disappointment if Frank has to become a star to justify the pick.

Its a bad look if Dennis Smith jr. becomes a 5 time All Star

Let's be clear, it's a "bad look" for those who engage in second guessing and faux outrage in the Internet bubble.

The internet bubble in which you are more than a willing participant.

That's obvious.

Doesn't mean I endorse typical ridiculous behaviors.

No one cares about your endorsements.

And no one cares about premature handwringing over a draft pick.

All the man said was that it wouldn't look good if the Knicks passed up on a player who became a multiple all-star, and you turn it into "faux outrage". You always seem to be the one who is outraged by something someone says here.

Steph marbury was a multi all star too the question is will dsj make others better because right now that is not the case. He's just a stat stuffer that takes plays off

Didn't DSJ lead the ACC in assists? Sounds like it was a real f'ed up situation there between the coaching staff, and his injury. Some fans might be underestimating Frank's ability to get to the rim, and underestimating DSJ's ability to be a floor general as well. Cant wait to find out.

Didn't step marbury led the league in multi years of averaging over 20 points and 8 assists... stats are just stats if you cant make your teammates better this is especially the case for the point guard position.

Understood. I dont believe you are factoring in that DSJ wasn't on a very good team, but still was able to lead the league. Shows there is an ability to be a floor general. You seem to believe that there is something about his character that will prevent him from becoming one. Too early to tell for sure, but from what I have read, this was a kid trying to make the best out of a bad situation, and sometimes acted like a kid. In college.

Believe its too early to say that DSJ cant be a leader. Thought there was enough in DSJ as a player to take that risk.

Not too long until we get an idea of what Frank brings to the table in actual NBA action. Thats all that counts now.

True, as with all these draft picks, time will tell. I still think Frank has all the ability to become a star two way player in this league. DSJ can be a offensive star if he matures, with that said they have completely different skill sets. So each will be different types of stars if they take their games to that level.

Agreed

How do you come to that conclusion with haven't seen anything but youtube highlights. do you think rambis or jh can turn this kid into a really good player?

What the hell have you seen Nostradamus to be talking like you are anything but in the same boat?

I'm not the one predicting anything, that's you guys.. in fact if you read the sentence correctly, my question was regarding his development under a bunch of suspect coaches.

No it wasn't.

"Im going to be livid if this kid is a major project"

I think most people would interpret that to mean if he arrives to the Knicks as a major project rather as a ready to excel prospect as demonstrated by summer league.

No that means if this kid can't help now on any level, he will be a disappointment, that doesn't mean i'm expecting him to make a all rookie team. Just don't go and draft some 3 to 5 yr project

And again, how is the sentiment unique to Ntilikina that doesn't apply do every high draft pick ever?

I only singling out frank because the article singled him out...If he doesn't show promise in his first yr, it's going to be because of the roster and coaching staff, and he will end up being traded to a better situation sooner than later. I say this because that's what tends to happen when you are losing and some stars becomes available.

Heh... you posted the article on the new thread. You singled it out, and it has no relevance to what you claim to be saying now.

What he does not get is we choose to be hopeful, we are not ignorant that a #8 pick might not live up to expectations.

knicks1248 wrote:either other rookies could careless, or he's not that good,

Maybe this year’s NBA rookies didn’t know how to spell his name.

In a rookie survey that took place two weeks ago during the league’s annual rookie photo shoot in Tarrytown, Knicks point guard Frank Ntilikina didn’t receive a single vote in any of the categories that were voted upon.

Thirty first-year players received at least one vote, including Dennis Smith Jr., who won the Rookie of the Year polling. Former Knicks president Phil Jackson passed on Smith at No. 8 to take the Frenchman, who turned 19 in July.

Smith had a remarkable summer league in Las Vegas for the Mavericks, who were high on Ntilikina but sources say were just as thrilled to nab Smith with the ninth selection. The Knicks face the Mavericks in Dallas on Jan. 7. Dallas visits the Garden on March 13.

It is fairly understandable Ntilikina got overlooked because he missed the entire summer league in Orlando with a knee injury, and few players have seen him in French League action. But getting shut out completely should serve as motivational fodder for Ntilikina, who led his team to the French League finals, at which he injured his knee in the decisive Game 5.
Modal TriggerThe Mavericks’ Dennis Smith impressed during summer league.NBAE/Getty Images
Ntilikina, noted for his 6-5 height and 7-foot wingspan, didn’t even manage a vote for best rookie defender – which was won by Suns forward Josh Jackson. Nets center Jarrett Allen, taken 22nd, received one defensive vote.

Donovan Mitchell Jr., also passed on by the Knicks, won the polling for “steal of the draft’’ as he was taken 13th by Utah. Detroit’s Luke Kennard notched a win in the category of “Best Shooter’’ while Smith captured “Most Athletic.’’

Before the draft, the departed Jackson made a noteworthy comment, stating he was not looking for the most athletic player who could “jump out of the gym” or post “triple-double games.’’ Smith recorded a record two triple-double games against ACC competition in his lone season at N.C. State. New Knicks president Steve Mills, after he got promoted, stood by the Ntilikina pick.

There were 39 players at the rookie photo shoot and all participated in the survey.

im going to be livid if this kid is a major project, I know he's look good in a empty gym, but he needs to out there playing some pick up games

Funny, your "Gonna be Livid". Even funnier is the empty gym comment and he needs to be playing pick up games. Dude played in the playoffs and championship games until the very end of june. Half the league has not played an organized game sice April. Your self importance to assume you know what he needs to do better than him. Its laughable.

Remember, under all this every knick fan is "Livid" and has been "Livid" FOR YEARS!!!!!
Even the mirage of 54 wins was Livid worthy? Why? we were really not that good were we?
Dolan had that team cobbled together to counter Nets move to BKN that year.

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:either other rookies could careless, or he's not that good,

Maybe this year’s NBA rookies didn’t know how to spell his name.

In a rookie survey that took place two weeks ago during the league’s annual rookie photo shoot in Tarrytown, Knicks point guard Frank Ntilikina didn’t receive a single vote in any of the categories that were voted upon.

Thirty first-year players received at least one vote, including Dennis Smith Jr., who won the Rookie of the Year polling. Former Knicks president Phil Jackson passed on Smith at No. 8 to take the Frenchman, who turned 19 in July.

Smith had a remarkable summer league in Las Vegas for the Mavericks, who were high on Ntilikina but sources say were just as thrilled to nab Smith with the ninth selection. The Knicks face the Mavericks in Dallas on Jan. 7. Dallas visits the Garden on March 13.

It is fairly understandable Ntilikina got overlooked because he missed the entire summer league in Orlando with a knee injury, and few players have seen him in French League action. But getting shut out completely should serve as motivational fodder for Ntilikina, who led his team to the French League finals, at which he injured his knee in the decisive Game 5.
Modal TriggerThe Mavericks’ Dennis Smith impressed during summer league.NBAE/Getty Images
Ntilikina, noted for his 6-5 height and 7-foot wingspan, didn’t even manage a vote for best rookie defender – which was won by Suns forward Josh Jackson. Nets center Jarrett Allen, taken 22nd, received one defensive vote.

Donovan Mitchell Jr., also passed on by the Knicks, won the polling for “steal of the draft’’ as he was taken 13th by Utah. Detroit’s Luke Kennard notched a win in the category of “Best Shooter’’ while Smith captured “Most Athletic.’’

Before the draft, the departed Jackson made a noteworthy comment, stating he was not looking for the most athletic player who could “jump out of the gym” or post “triple-double games.’’ Smith recorded a record two triple-double games against ACC competition in his lone season at N.C. State. New Knicks president Steve Mills, after he got promoted, stood by the Ntilikina pick.

There were 39 players at the rookie photo shoot and all participated in the survey.

im going to be livid if this kid is a major project, I know he's look good in a empty gym, but he needs to out there playing some pick up games

Funny, your "Gonna be Livid". Even funnier is the empty gym comment and he needs to be playing pick up games. Dude played in the playoffs and championship games until the very end of june. Half the league has not played an organized game sice April. Your self importance to assume you know what he needs to do better than him. Its laughable.

Remember, under all this every knick fan is "Livid" and has been "Livid" FOR YEARS!!!!!
Even the mirage of 54 wins was Livid worthy? Why? we were really not that good were we?
Dolan had that team cobbled together to counter Nets move to BKN that year.

pick up games are becoming the norm for nba players, ESPN just did a segment on how many nba players are doing it, and I just stated that as an additional option of training, it would be good to get some run against NBA talent, but to you it's the dumbest idea ever.

awe1028 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

awe1028 wrote:I don't bash the Frank pick because I understand it. The things at which Frank excels are exactly are what the team needs. The Knicks have quite possibly the worse defense in the NBA and the biggest reason for that is the perimeter defense. Frank is an elite defender,
who can start the transformation of the defense. The problem is he is was too big a risk given where the Knicks picked and who was still on the board. Frank could yet work out handsomely but there is no denying he is a serious risk.

My biggest question with him is more to do with whether he is really a PG because this team needs one desperately. If he ends up a wing its not the end of the world but his value is much higher if he can be the starting PG. The flexibility that size would allow is such a huge advantage defensively. It lets you take on smallish shooting guards if need be and not get burned. I just really worry about his ball handling its not good and it seems to be just glossed over by Frank homers.

I believe Frank has the skills to be the prototypical pass first PG for which we as Knicks fans have been pining. He seems to have a high BB IQ, is pass first, team first unselfish to a fault always looking to make his teammates better and he plays elite defense to boot. He does have a high turnover rate, a consequent low ATO and his passes are lazy at times which is probably why you question is PG skills

Those concerns are however related to the issues he has with the core skills mentioned earlier. Until he is able to get those on par to a NBA level he can't tap in to the PG strengths he has.

fitzfarm wrote:

Marv wrote:I revisited a number of "nitty's" videos. I'm down with this kid. I see a lot of chauncey in this kid. And like chauncey it might take a little while to all gel. And when it does, i think we're going to have one of the top guards in the league. Hope we have the patience that boston didn't. He grows with zingis, billy, tim, dotson, we got our core.

I agree full heartedly, I see a lot of bullips in him as well with maybe more upside interms of length and hight! If we have the next bullips on our hands Watch out!

Yeah people forget that there are different types of PG's and not all of them succeed in the same way. Billups had a unique game and people tend to forget about him. Not a lot of Dunk or And1 Breaking Ankles highlights for Billups but he could run the show. They ran a lot of Curls and Cuts and Billups whipped accurate passes. The Knicks will run a motion offense as well with lots of cuts. Nitty should be able to see the floor extremely well as a PG. Nitty will be effective on Drag Screens and PnR.

fitzfarm wrote:

Marv wrote:I revisited a number of "nitty's" videos. I'm down with this kid. I see a lot of chauncey in this kid. And like chauncey it might take a little while to all gel. And when it does, i think we're going to have one of the top guards in the league. Hope we have the patience that boston didn't. He grows with zingis, billy, tim, dotson, we got our core.

I agree full heartedly, I see a lot of bullips in him as well with maybe more upside interms of length and hight! If we have the next bullips on our hands Watch out!

Billups or at the very least George Hill is his ceiling. My dream would be Frank is BIllups/Hill with Tony Allen type defense