nyknickzingis wrote:Here is the Gerald Green take on Hornachek in PHX

“He allowed me to play,” Green said. “He allowed me to do certain things that a lot of coaches didn’t do. He trusted me to do things from the get-go. We were always sitting down and talking. He was always trying to pick my brain. He was a shooter, too, so that was a good thing that he could tell me what got him open and what he saw. That really helped me out.”

Last season Green signed with the Heat and Hornacek was fired by the Suns, and Green insists that his former coach should never have been let go.

I wasn't talking about Green slagging Hornacek. I was talking about how Green mentioned Hornacek got undercut by his front office in Phoenix. Here's the quote, in case you somehow missed it.

“Jeff was really good in Phoenix. Only thing with Jeff, to me, is he didn’t control that team,” Gerald Green, who played under Hornacek for two seasons in Phoenix, told the Daily News. “He had to listen to the front office guys a lot. And by him having to do that, it messed up his coaching style, messed up his groove.”

“He wasn’t really controlling the team,” Green added, saying the management takeover occurred in Hornacek’s second season. “I think if you let Jeff have more control of the team as far as letting him calling his own plays and letting him play who he feels like he should play, he’d do great.”

And here's what I originally said to reference the quote:

Players know he's not really in charge. Gerald Green was just quoted saying this about Horny's time in Phoenix.

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Here is the Gerald Green take on Hornachek in PHX

“He allowed me to play,” Green said. “He allowed me to do certain things that a lot of coaches didn’t do. He trusted me to do things from the get-go. We were always sitting down and talking. He was always trying to pick my brain. He was a shooter, too, so that was a good thing that he could tell me what got him open and what he saw. That really helped me out.”

Last season Green signed with the Heat and Hornacek was fired by the Suns, and Green insists that his former coach should never have been let go.

I wasn't talking about Green slagging Hornacek. I was talking about how Green mentioned Hornacek got undercut by his front office in Phoenix. Here's the quote, in case you somehow missed it.

“Jeff was really good in Phoenix. Only thing with Jeff, to me, is he didn’t control that team,” Gerald Green, who played under Hornacek for two seasons in Phoenix, told the Daily News. “He had to listen to the front office guys a lot. And by him having to do that, it messed up his coaching style, messed up his groove.”

“He wasn’t really controlling the team,” Green added, saying the management takeover occurred in Hornacek’s second season. “I think if you let Jeff have more control of the team as far as letting him calling his own plays and letting him play who he feels like he should play, he’d do great.”

And here's what I originally said to reference the quote:

Players know he's not really in charge. Gerald Green was just quoted saying this about Horny's time in Phoenix.

Charles Barkley comment about the Knick hire 1 minute in...

I'm hoping the team (Phil, Horny) see the problems on D and are not so concerned with offense. Run the Triangle. Run the secondary breaks, pick and rolls and early offense. It doesn't matter. What you need with this team is skilled players who defend, and you need a leader. No leader on this team, and not enough defensive minded starting level players. KP has to make a transformation as well. His defense is there, he has all the tools. He just doesn't play it well enough. He has to focus on defense and playing smarter, using his feet and hands in a way where he can challenge shots but not get into foul trouble.

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:The prevailing point of view from the players, if you look at Jennings, KP and Melo's comments were that management and specifically Phil, affected on court play with his antics...Charlie Rosen article and tweets didn't help cultivate an environment that leads to winning, it distracted the team...Knicks were 14-10 when all this started...

It's a very WEAK argument IMO. Phil calling for more ball movement should not cause a group of seasoned vets to fall apart!!! This is just excuse making at its worst. DO YOUR DAMNED JOB!!!
Move the ball and play some D! This is all that they had to do.

That's your narrative..They called a meeting to tell Phil they will moved away from running the triangle..Phil, according to the players, "took it well"...Until he didn't, and lashed out in the media...So you can promote your narrative, which isn't accurate...

Is this comment so bad that it should completely destroy a team???

"He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played," Jackson said. "That's a perfect spot for him, to be in that isolated position on the weak side. Because it's an overload offense and there's a weak-side man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung.

"Carmelo a lot of times wants to hold the ball longer than — we have a rule: If you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold it for three, four, five seconds, and then everybody comes to a stop,” Jackson said on Tuesday. “That is one of the things we work with. But he’s adjusted to (the triangle), he knows what he can do and he’s willing to see its success.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/phil-jackson-carmelo-anthony-can-play-jordan-kobe-role-but-holds-ball-too-long/

Yep, it's ridiculous how overblown Phil's comments have become.melo is so soft when it comes to criticism- imagine if he'd played for JVG!

How is Melo soft on criticism??..He has played well through it and put up some spectacular numbers during the criticism..January and Feb #s were like 25 and 6...Many people have commented on this and the way he has handled the press ..It's the rest of the team that have collapsed...

How has he handled it well?! he has been crying about it all season with passive-aggressive and blatant comments all year long

Tracy McGrady on how Melo has handled Phil..

“Melo’s better than me because all that s--t that’s going on with Melo and Phil, and Phil has the arrogance to sit in the stands, at these games, and I’m playing great basketball — I’d be looking at him every trip down the court or something. Just gazing at him, like, ‘You see the s--t that I’m doing out here like every night? Nah.’” McGrady said. “Some players can play through that, others can’t. Obviously Melo is showing his mental toughness because playing in the Garden is not an easy place to play. Especially for Melo there. And he’s been doing his thing lately.”

MWP on how Melo has handled Phil...

World Peace said that when Jackson would say things to get under his skin during Lakers practice, he would scream profanities at the coach, who didn’t care. World Peace was impressed with how Anthony has handled this situation.

“Phil’s going to push you,” World Peace said before his Lakers faced the Knicks on Sunday night. “He’s going to see where your mind’s at. And Melo responded well. I’ve seen the comments. I like the fact that Melo didn’t back down. I like the fact that Melo did have some competitive comments and he went back at Phil. So it reminded me of when Kobe [Bryant] went back at Phil.”

Chris Broussard on how Melo has handled the situation..

CHRIS: "So why throw Carmelo Anthony under the bus? Carmelo Anthony does not deserve this. He has been the most mature person in the entire Knicks organization throughout this whole ordeal. Can you imagine having to go out there and having to play, or perform at any job, when you know your bosses want to get rid of you?

"And he's still going out there and playing good basketball, still putting on the professional face, when after every game, and every practice, he has to face the media and answer these questions.

"And Phil Jackson is running from the media. Has not spoken to the New York media since September. And he's speaking to different members of the national media in the background, in the weeds, having them plant this stuff, apparently. It appears that way."

I can find at least a dozen more...You aren't being honest with your comments...You first inclination, as many on this board, is to protect and support Phil...

Excuse me for a moment. WHO SIGNED Melo's contract? Are you saying Melo wasn't aware of who Phil was or how he operated? Well, hell, if Melo was ambivalent about it, why ask for the NTC?

So Melo gets paid multi-millions to put up empty stats, disappear in the fourth quarter, knock on his head when he makes a basket AND YOU WANT ME TO FEEL SORRY FOR THIS GUY?

Crack addicts make more sense.

fwk00 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:The prevailing point of view from the players, if you look at Jennings, KP and Melo's comments were that management and specifically Phil, affected on court play with his antics...Charlie Rosen article and tweets didn't help cultivate an environment that leads to winning, it distracted the team...Knicks were 14-10 when all this started...

It's a very WEAK argument IMO. Phil calling for more ball movement should not cause a group of seasoned vets to fall apart!!! This is just excuse making at its worst. DO YOUR DAMNED JOB!!!
Move the ball and play some D! This is all that they had to do.

That's your narrative..They called a meeting to tell Phil they will moved away from running the triangle..Phil, according to the players, "took it well"...Until he didn't, and lashed out in the media...So you can promote your narrative, which isn't accurate...

Is this comment so bad that it should completely destroy a team???

"He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played," Jackson said. "That's a perfect spot for him, to be in that isolated position on the weak side. Because it's an overload offense and there's a weak-side man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung.

"Carmelo a lot of times wants to hold the ball longer than — we have a rule: If you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold it for three, four, five seconds, and then everybody comes to a stop,” Jackson said on Tuesday. “That is one of the things we work with. But he’s adjusted to (the triangle), he knows what he can do and he’s willing to see its success.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/phil-jackson-carmelo-anthony-can-play-jordan-kobe-role-but-holds-ball-too-long/

Yep, it's ridiculous how overblown Phil's comments have become.melo is so soft when it comes to criticism- imagine if he'd played for JVG!

How is Melo soft on criticism??..He has played well through it and put up some spectacular numbers during the criticism..January and Feb #s were like 25 and 6...Many people have commented on this and the way he has handled the press ..It's the rest of the team that have collapsed...

How has he handled it well?! he has been crying about it all season with passive-aggressive and blatant comments all year long

Tracy McGrady on how Melo has handled Phil..

“Melo’s better than me because all that s--t that’s going on with Melo and Phil, and Phil has the arrogance to sit in the stands, at these games, and I’m playing great basketball — I’d be looking at him every trip down the court or something. Just gazing at him, like, ‘You see the s--t that I’m doing out here like every night? Nah.’” McGrady said. “Some players can play through that, others can’t. Obviously Melo is showing his mental toughness because playing in the Garden is not an easy place to play. Especially for Melo there. And he’s been doing his thing lately.”

MWP on how Melo has handled Phil...

World Peace said that when Jackson would say things to get under his skin during Lakers practice, he would scream profanities at the coach, who didn’t care. World Peace was impressed with how Anthony has handled this situation.

“Phil’s going to push you,” World Peace said before his Lakers faced the Knicks on Sunday night. “He’s going to see where your mind’s at. And Melo responded well. I’ve seen the comments. I like the fact that Melo didn’t back down. I like the fact that Melo did have some competitive comments and he went back at Phil. So it reminded me of when Kobe [Bryant] went back at Phil.”

Chris Broussard on how Melo has handled the situation..

CHRIS: "So why throw Carmelo Anthony under the bus? Carmelo Anthony does not deserve this. He has been the most mature person in the entire Knicks organization throughout this whole ordeal. Can you imagine having to go out there and having to play, or perform at any job, when you know your bosses want to get rid of you?

"And he's still going out there and playing good basketball, still putting on the professional face, when after every game, and every practice, he has to face the media and answer these questions.

"And Phil Jackson is running from the media. Has not spoken to the New York media since September. And he's speaking to different members of the national media in the background, in the weeds, having them plant this stuff, apparently. It appears that way."

I can find at least a dozen more...You aren't being honest with your comments...You first inclination, as many on this board, is to protect and support Phil...

Excuse me for a moment. WHO SIGNED Melo's contract? Are you saying Melo wasn't aware of who Phil was or how he operated? Well, hell, if Melo was ambivalent about it, why ask for the NTC?

So Melo gets paid multi-millions to put up empty stats, disappear in the fourth quarter, knock on his head when he makes a basket AND YOU WANT ME TO FEEL SORRY FOR THIS GUY?

Crack addicts make more sense.

We can debate many things here but first you have to make some sense...Firstly nothing you have said addressed what I said...What does Melo's NTC have to do with how he handles the situation??..I never asked you to feel sorry for him....If you want to get something off your chest then have at it...

the move is coming at a steep cost as hiring Jackson away from his retirement digs is going to cost a pretty penny. Isola states that Jackson could make as much as $15 million per season, which would make him the highest paid NBA executive in NBA history.

Phil is the mastermind of 3 tank jobs and another on the way..

Phils pitch to dolan was he would produce the worst winning percentage in franchise history, and for that you will make me the highest paid president in NBA History. Im going instill a losing culture where not only you will learned to embrace it, i will dupe some fans as well into thinking my hippie satchel wearing, triangle, 80's style of basketball will prevail over the NBA like the 90's.

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Lol at the some of the victim blaming going on here. Hornacek signed with Phil - he should've known what to expect! Melo signed with Phil - he should've known what to expect! In what other situation in the entire league does a player or coach sign with a team and he's expected to do whatever the President wants. That's not how successful organizations operate. I'm tired of this debate. Phil clinched his third straight 50 loss season today - even Isiah couldn't do that. Time to go out and celebrate.

+1000

+2000

fwk00 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:The prevailing point of view from the players, if you look at Jennings, KP and Melo's comments were that management and specifically Phil, affected on court play with his antics...Charlie Rosen article and tweets didn't help cultivate an environment that leads to winning, it distracted the team...Knicks were 14-10 when all this started...

It's a very WEAK argument IMO. Phil calling for more ball movement should not cause a group of seasoned vets to fall apart!!! This is just excuse making at its worst. DO YOUR DAMNED JOB!!!
Move the ball and play some D! This is all that they had to do.

That's your narrative..They called a meeting to tell Phil they will moved away from running the triangle..Phil, according to the players, "took it well"...Until he didn't, and lashed out in the media...So you can promote your narrative, which isn't accurate...

Is this comment so bad that it should completely destroy a team???

"He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played," Jackson said. "That's a perfect spot for him, to be in that isolated position on the weak side. Because it's an overload offense and there's a weak-side man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung.

"Carmelo a lot of times wants to hold the ball longer than — we have a rule: If you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold it for three, four, five seconds, and then everybody comes to a stop,” Jackson said on Tuesday. “That is one of the things we work with. But he’s adjusted to (the triangle), he knows what he can do and he’s willing to see its success.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/phil-jackson-carmelo-anthony-can-play-jordan-kobe-role-but-holds-ball-too-long/

Yep, it's ridiculous how overblown Phil's comments have become.melo is so soft when it comes to criticism- imagine if he'd played for JVG!

How is Melo soft on criticism??..He has played well through it and put up some spectacular numbers during the criticism..January and Feb #s were like 25 and 6...Many people have commented on this and the way he has handled the press ..It's the rest of the team that have collapsed...

How has he handled it well?! he has been crying about it all season with passive-aggressive and blatant comments all year long

Tracy McGrady on how Melo has handled Phil..

“Melo’s better than me because all that s--t that’s going on with Melo and Phil, and Phil has the arrogance to sit in the stands, at these games, and I’m playing great basketball — I’d be looking at him every trip down the court or something. Just gazing at him, like, ‘You see the s--t that I’m doing out here like every night? Nah.’” McGrady said. “Some players can play through that, others can’t. Obviously Melo is showing his mental toughness because playing in the Garden is not an easy place to play. Especially for Melo there. And he’s been doing his thing lately.”

MWP on how Melo has handled Phil...

World Peace said that when Jackson would say things to get under his skin during Lakers practice, he would scream profanities at the coach, who didn’t care. World Peace was impressed with how Anthony has handled this situation.

“Phil’s going to push you,” World Peace said before his Lakers faced the Knicks on Sunday night. “He’s going to see where your mind’s at. And Melo responded well. I’ve seen the comments. I like the fact that Melo didn’t back down. I like the fact that Melo did have some competitive comments and he went back at Phil. So it reminded me of when Kobe [Bryant] went back at Phil.”

Chris Broussard on how Melo has handled the situation..

CHRIS: "So why throw Carmelo Anthony under the bus? Carmelo Anthony does not deserve this. He has been the most mature person in the entire Knicks organization throughout this whole ordeal. Can you imagine having to go out there and having to play, or perform at any job, when you know your bosses want to get rid of you?

"And he's still going out there and playing good basketball, still putting on the professional face, when after every game, and every practice, he has to face the media and answer these questions.

"And Phil Jackson is running from the media. Has not spoken to the New York media since September. And he's speaking to different members of the national media in the background, in the weeds, having them plant this stuff, apparently. It appears that way."

I can find at least a dozen more...You aren't being honest with your comments...You first inclination, as many on this board, is to protect and support Phil...

Excuse me for a moment. WHO SIGNED Melo's contract? Are you saying Melo wasn't aware of who Phil was or how he operated? Well, hell, if Melo was ambivalent about it, why ask for the NTC?

So Melo gets paid multi-millions to put up empty stats, disappear in the fourth quarter, knock on his head when he makes a basket AND YOU WANT ME TO FEEL SORRY FOR THIS GUY?

Crack addicts make more sense.

We can debate many things here but first you have to make some sense...Firstly nothing you have said addressed what I said...What does Melo's NTC have to do with how he handles the situation??..I never asked you to feel sorry for him....If you want to get something off your chest then have at it...

Melo put himself in the situation by signing a superstar contract that included a NTC that he insisted upon. The NTC means for better or worse. It also means a commitment above and beyond just showing up and putting up numbers. He was hired to win.

I don't give a rat's arse about how Melo "handles the situation". Melo can go home, fill his tub with thousand dollar bills and take a bath in them to relieve his stress - the coaches and administrators who recommended his signing cannot.

The media creates a bull**** coupling of Rosen's observations as Phil's manifesto and Melo is "handling a situation". What situation. All he has to say is its bullSh@t. I trust Phil. End of situation.

The media decides a tweet is a personal attack - Melo makes it a "situation". He has to answer questions about a tweet that compares his obvious lack of productivity to another player who disappointed. BFD. Does Melo think he was fooling the fans by being offended? These forums were full of the same stuff for years.

Only Melo is surprised. "They think I'm underachieving! D'oh!"

What will snap this guy out of it? Mental floss?

Melo may have signed the contract, but he didn't draft it. The Knicks did.

Maybe if Phil didn't want people to read too much into his tweets, he could address the media.

crzymdups wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:The prevailing point of view from the players, if you look at Jennings, KP and Melo's comments were that management and specifically Phil, affected on court play with his antics...Charlie Rosen article and tweets didn't help cultivate an environment that leads to winning, it distracted the team...Knicks were 14-10 when all this started...

It's a very WEAK argument IMO. Phil calling for more ball movement should not cause a group of seasoned vets to fall apart!!! This is just excuse making at its worst. DO YOUR DAMNED JOB!!!
Move the ball and play some D! This is all that they had to do.

That's your narrative..They called a meeting to tell Phil they will moved away from running the triangle..Phil, according to the players, "took it well"...Until he didn't, and lashed out in the media...So you can promote your narrative, which isn't accurate...

Is this comment so bad that it should completely destroy a team???

"He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played," Jackson said. "That's a perfect spot for him, to be in that isolated position on the weak side. Because it's an overload offense and there's a weak-side man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung.

"Carmelo a lot of times wants to hold the ball longer than — we have a rule: If you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold it for three, four, five seconds, and then everybody comes to a stop,” Jackson said on Tuesday. “That is one of the things we work with. But he’s adjusted to (the triangle), he knows what he can do and he’s willing to see its success.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/phil-jackson-carmelo-anthony-can-play-jordan-kobe-role-but-holds-ball-too-long/

Yep, it's ridiculous how overblown Phil's comments have become.melo is so soft when it comes to criticism- imagine if he'd played for JVG!

How is Melo soft on criticism??..He has played well through it and put up some spectacular numbers during the criticism..January and Feb #s were like 25 and 6...Many people have commented on this and the way he has handled the press ..It's the rest of the team that have collapsed...

How has he handled it well?! he has been crying about it all season with passive-aggressive and blatant comments all year long

Tracy McGrady on how Melo has handled Phil..

“Melo’s better than me because all that s--t that’s going on with Melo and Phil, and Phil has the arrogance to sit in the stands, at these games, and I’m playing great basketball — I’d be looking at him every trip down the court or something. Just gazing at him, like, ‘You see the s--t that I’m doing out here like every night? Nah.’” McGrady said. “Some players can play through that, others can’t. Obviously Melo is showing his mental toughness because playing in the Garden is not an easy place to play. Especially for Melo there. And he’s been doing his thing lately.”

MWP on how Melo has handled Phil...

World Peace said that when Jackson would say things to get under his skin during Lakers practice, he would scream profanities at the coach, who didn’t care. World Peace was impressed with how Anthony has handled this situation.

“Phil’s going to push you,” World Peace said before his Lakers faced the Knicks on Sunday night. “He’s going to see where your mind’s at. And Melo responded well. I’ve seen the comments. I like the fact that Melo didn’t back down. I like the fact that Melo did have some competitive comments and he went back at Phil. So it reminded me of when Kobe [Bryant] went back at Phil.”

Chris Broussard on how Melo has handled the situation..

CHRIS: "So why throw Carmelo Anthony under the bus? Carmelo Anthony does not deserve this. He has been the most mature person in the entire Knicks organization throughout this whole ordeal. Can you imagine having to go out there and having to play, or perform at any job, when you know your bosses want to get rid of you?

"And he's still going out there and playing good basketball, still putting on the professional face, when after every game, and every practice, he has to face the media and answer these questions.

"And Phil Jackson is running from the media. Has not spoken to the New York media since September. And he's speaking to different members of the national media in the background, in the weeds, having them plant this stuff, apparently. It appears that way."

I can find at least a dozen more...You aren't being honest with your comments...You first inclination, as many on this board, is to protect and support Phil...

Excuse me for a moment. WHO SIGNED Melo's contract? Are you saying Melo wasn't aware of who Phil was or how he operated? Well, hell, if Melo was ambivalent about it, why ask for the NTC?

So Melo gets paid multi-millions to put up empty stats, disappear in the fourth quarter, knock on his head when he makes a basket AND YOU WANT ME TO FEEL SORRY FOR THIS GUY?

Crack addicts make more sense.

We can debate many things here but first you have to make some sense...Firstly nothing you have said addressed what I said...What does Melo's NTC have to do with how he handles the situation??..I never asked you to feel sorry for him....If you want to get something off your chest then have at it...

Melo put himself in the situation by signing a superstar contract that included a NTC that he insisted upon. The NTC means for better or worse. It also means a commitment above and beyond just showing up and putting up numbers. He was hired to win.

I don't give a rat's arse about how Melo "handles the situation". Melo can go home, fill his tub with thousand dollar bills and take a bath in them to relieve his stress - the coaches and administrators who recommended his signing cannot.

The media creates a bull**** coupling of Rosen's observations as Phil's manifesto and Melo is "handling a situation". What situation. All he has to say is its bullSh@t. I trust Phil. End of situation.

The media decides a tweet is a personal attack - Melo makes it a "situation". He has to answer questions about a tweet that compares his obvious lack of productivity to another player who disappointed. BFD. Does Melo think he was fooling the fans by being offended? These forums were full of the same stuff for years.

Only Melo is surprised. "They think I'm underachieving! D'oh!"

What will snap this guy out of it? Mental floss?

Melo may have signed the contract, but he didn't draft it. The Knicks did.

Maybe if Phil didn't want people to read too much into his tweets, he could address the media.

He did address the media and found they had no interest in what he had to say, instead they twisted and warped every innocent observation into a soap-opera. Addressing the media won't win games or friends.

knicks1248 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Lol at the some of the victim blaming going on here. Hornacek signed with Phil - he should've known what to expect! Melo signed with Phil - he should've known what to expect! In what other situation in the entire league does a player or coach sign with a team and he's expected to do whatever the President wants. That's not how successful organizations operate. I'm tired of this debate. Phil clinched his third straight 50 loss season today - even Isiah couldn't do that. Time to go out and celebrate.

+1000

+2000