Vmart wrote:You can win with Melo can you finds another Jason Kidd. A player that keeps the entire team on the team edge with his play making. One of the big thing about a player if Kidd's quality is that they get the respect of even Melo. A proven winner is a proven winner and he plays hard on defense.

Baker's skillset at the 2 is actually similar to Kidd's when he was here. Tough defense, good decisions, hitting outside shots, secondary facilitating. But obviously that leadership Kidd provided was 2nd to none.

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Rose and Melo have talents that can work with one another as well as KP. The problem I've seen is that the other 2 guys with them are useually useless because Noah can not score if open unless he's wide open under the basket and Lee has not made enough baskets mainly because he doesn't take enough shots. On defense it's just awful. That's the real problem with Melo and Rose. Neither plays hard on defense.

The real problem is that Knick fans aren't patient...We traded Shump and JR a few years ago to a Cavs team hovering just above .500...We are 18-22..They took off after the trade...My only concern with this team is the bench..I have no doubt the starters can compete with the better teams in the league..The coach needs to be a defensive coach too..But we don't have that...

The Cavs getting JR and Shump had nothing to do with them winning. Lebron wins on whatever teams he plays on and no matter what players are around him. They're playing just fine without JR right now and Shump is just a piece and nothing more.

Well they are a different team today with Love establishing a different confidence...But to deny their impact is just silly..Just look at record and when they joined..They brought defense to a team that lacked it..They were winning because of defense at that time...Kyre was coming back from a knee injury and Love are now different players..But they need JR back for the playoffs...JR was key for them last playoff run...Sometimes you have to just give credit where it's due...

I wish we had a player like Kyre who could step out and take over games, while Melo(LeBron), pick his spots...But it's not meant to be...

I promise you that when i see where credit is due i'll give it and i'm not saying that both JR and Shump didn't give any help to them winning and winning the championship, i'm saying they still would of won and won the championship without either one of them because Lebron makes every single person he plays with better so if it wasn't JR and Shump then whoever it would of been in their place would of helped them win the championship. Lebron makes everyone on the team better, he's that great of a player and dang it i hate saying that.

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Rose and Melo have talents that can work with one another as well as KP. The problem I've seen is that the other 2 guys with them are useually useless because Noah can not score if open unless he's wide open under the basket and Lee has not made enough baskets mainly because he doesn't take enough shots. On defense it's just awful. That's the real problem with Melo and Rose. Neither plays hard on defense.

The real problem is that Knick fans aren't patient...We traded Shump and JR a few years ago to a Cavs team hovering just above .500...We are 18-22..They took off after the trade...My only concern with this team is the bench..I have no doubt the starters can compete with the better teams in the league..The coach needs to be a defensive coach too..But we don't have that...

The Cavs getting JR and Shump had nothing to do with them winning. Lebron wins on whatever teams he plays on and no matter what players are around him. They're playing just fine without JR right now and Shump is just a piece and nothing more.

Great point. Oh but you forgot to mention Wade, Bosh, Love, Irving. As good as LBJ is, he needs and needed those guys.

If you followed what we were talking about it was just JR and Shump not all the other guys which is why i only mentioned those two. If Ray Allen didn't hit that corner 3 against the Spurs they wouldn't of won their first championship in Miami.

newyorker4ever wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can win with Melo can you finds another Jason Kidd. A player that keeps the entire team on the team edge with his play making. One of the big thing about a player if Kidd's quality is that they get the respect of even Melo. A proven winner is a proven winner and he plays hard on defense.

Baker's skillset at the 2 is actually similar to Kidd's when he was here. Tough defense, good decisions, hitting outside shots, secondary facilitating. But obviously that leadership Kidd provided was 2nd to none.

Guy has a good Bball IQ. Gritty. Think he will get better with minutes. Prefer him over Lee. So far not impressed by Phil's off season choices except for Holiday. Noah 4 years, Lee 4 years was a mistake. Imo. Rather give some young guys a chance and give us flexibility.

It's so easy to make "i told you so" posts after the fact. Where were these comments at the beginning of the year?? We can all see that something isn't clicking now but before the season or even through the first 15 games of the season i think we all thought we had a team that was gonna compete this year and even make a playoff spot, if not then i must have missed all of those posts saying we weren't gonna be any good 15 games in.

Well I'm on record saying bench Lee for Baker a while ago. It's a thread somewhere. I have to admit I thought this team could be a good team remember they were in the third slot just a few weeks ago. Oh well that Loss to Cleveland ripped heir heart out.

newyorker4ever wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can win with Melo can you finds another Jason Kidd. A player that keeps the entire team on the team edge with his play making. One of the big thing about a player if Kidd's quality is that they get the respect of even Melo. A proven winner is a proven winner and he plays hard on defense.

Baker's skillset at the 2 is actually similar to Kidd's when he was here. Tough defense, good decisions, hitting outside shots, secondary facilitating. But obviously that leadership Kidd provided was 2nd to none.

Guy has a good Bball IQ. Gritty. Think he will get better with minutes. Prefer him over Lee. So far not impressed by Phil's off season choices except for Holiday. Noah 4 years, Lee 4 years was a mistake. Imo. Rather give some young guys a chance and give us flexibility.

It's so easy to make "i told you so" posts after the fact. Where were these comments at the beginning of the year?? We can all see that something isn't clicking now but before the season or even through the first 15 games of the season i think we all thought we had a team that was gonna compete this year and even make a playoff spot, if not then i must have missed all of those posts saying we weren't gonna be any good 15 games in.

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:Melo said his loyalty to the Knicks haven't wavered and he has proven it "day in and day out"..

He also said he hasn't heard from Mills or Phil yet either. I think Mills and Phil are a bigger part of the problem than Melo at this point. I don't know how we get a great, focused front office mind running things. I really liked Glen Grunwald, but he may have been too shy and retiring for the job - though I think he communicated with the players, at least.

fwk00 wrote:The conversation that isn't being had is to sit down Melo and explain to him that basketball is not an office job. Showing up 9 to 5 ensures job security in insurance, state jobs, or wahtever but not basketball.

Basketball is about winning not hanging on so that administrators can watch you pad stats with no results. Loyalty by floating downstream is NOT a good thing.

That said, Melo is not a cornerstone for this team anymore whether he is traded or not. He needs a new role or a new team.

That's a conversation to be had with lots of folks in the organization before you get to the guy with the NTC..

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can win with Melo can you finds another Jason Kidd. A player that keeps the entire team on the team edge with his play making. One of the big thing about a player if Kidd's quality is that they get the respect of even Melo. A proven winner is a proven winner and he plays hard on defense.

Baker's skillset at the 2 is actually similar to Kidd's when he was here. Tough defense, good decisions, hitting outside shots, secondary facilitating. But obviously that leadership Kidd provided was 2nd to none.

Guy has a good Bball IQ. Gritty. Think he will get better with minutes. Prefer him over Lee. So far not impressed by Phil's off season choices except for Holiday. Noah 4 years, Lee 4 years was a mistake. Imo. Rather give some young guys a chance and give us flexibility.

It's so easy to make "i told you so" posts after the fact. Where were these comments at the beginning of the year?? We can all see that something isn't clicking now but before the season or even through the first 15 games of the season i think we all thought we had a team that was gonna compete this year and even make a playoff spot, if not then i must have missed all of those posts saying we weren't gonna be any good 15 games in.

Told you so posts? Is that what we are doing here? Okay, I'll play. Your telling me we should have talked about the 15th man as a difference maker the beginning of the season? Just saying he has shown some good traits. Not crowning him our long term PG or SG solution. Never liked Noah deal, posted several times. Never liked Tringle learning curve and uncle Phils influence. Wanted a defensive minded coach. Was wrong about Rose, thought he would make a big difference. But yes, thought or more like hoped we had a better squad. Still believe we can turn things around with a center and better shooting guard.

#IstillMissIsiah

Good times...

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=11949

If only we could travel back in time and warn ourselves!