ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Does no triangle signal the end of New-Melo, Team-Melo, Dad-Melo or whatever you guys were calling him? Does this signal the end of the Phil Jackson experiment, the rebirth of Mills and dare I say it the return of Isiah & the 2 guard offense?

I hear China MVP Marbury is still in great shape. Perfect if we're going to segue from a Triangle offense to a pace and space zero defense perennial 8th seed knockout.

All you guys think about is Melo.

dude... they made it two pages before bringing up Melo. Credit where credit is due

Can't wait until Melo and Horny butt heads!

I bet that's what you will be rooting for.

I'm rooting for the Knicks to turn it around.

Hiring Hornacek a non triangle guy that only knows pace and space from his Phoenix stint and Pick and Roll from his Utah days...Nah, no clash of idealogies or philosophies from Phil or Me7o at all.

Keep telling yourself that.

Can we get a press conference in, and actually hear Horn and Phil speak?

crzymdups wrote:This is a great article from Herring:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/knicks-close-to-deal-to-make-jeff-hornacek-their-new-coach-1463618361

Jeff Hornacek is in line to become the Knicks’ next head coach, a person familiar with the matter confirmed late Wednesday night.

The Knicks had yet to confirm the news, and no official deal was in place. But things are moving in that direction, and figure to be completed in the days to come, according to the source.

Hornacek’s candidacy—let alone his being hired—was unexpected, given that Knicks president Phil Jackson said early in the search process that he preferred to speak mostly with prospective coaches who had personal connections to him and his beloved triangle offense.

But according to the source, Jackson is convinced that Hornacek, the former All-Star guard and Phoenix Suns head coach, “is a smart basketball mind who can come up with the right kind of system” for the Knicks, who have much different personnel than did his Suns teams.

That latter point could be key: Were Jackson to let go of the reins and allow Hornacek to run either a hybrid triangle, or another offense altogether, it would mark a huge reversal from how he handled Derek Fisher, who was fired in early February in part because he often allowed his players to deviate from the set offense when things weren’t working.

Of the known candidates—including interim head coach and widely reported favorite Kurt Rambis, former Cleveland Cavaliers coach David Blatt and ex-Indiana Pacers coach Frank Vogel—Hornacek would seem the most stylistically different from Jackson.

Where the triangle offense zigs, creating open looks from the midrange and pinch-post areas of the court, Hornacek’s run-and-gun system seemingly zags, with a more modern, up-tempo pace and preference for 3-pointers and ample driving lanes for wing players.

Hornacek played the final six years of his NBA career in Utah under Jerry Sloan, who used a two-guard front on offense, similar to the triangle.

Some of Hornacek’s style with Phoenix, where he was fired this season after 2 1/2 years on the job, was likely based on his small-ball personnel, given that his best players all happened to be point guards. But there’s no denying that there appear to be differences between how Hornacek and Jackson think about offense.

The 53-year-old Hornacek interviewed for the job on Monday. He was runner-up in NBA Coach of the Year voting in 2014, when he lifted Phoenix to 48 wins from 25 the season before. But he was dismissed midway through this past season with a total record of 101-112.

Where the triangle offense zigs, creating open looks from the midrange and pinch-post areas of the court, Hornacek’s run-and-gun system seemingly zags, with a more modern, up-tempo pace and preference for 3-pointers and ample driving lanes for wing players.

Nixluva, this is my point from my criticism of the Triangle. The mid range shots do no not have efficient TS%, whereas 3pts and drawn fouls do. I understand your point that The triangle has more permutations that can do more AND your point about defensive balance and preparedness. I'd like to see those facets run in a system that maximizes TS% by minimizing midrange shots.

smackeddog wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Does no triangle signal the end of New-Melo, Team-Melo, Dad-Melo or whatever you guys were calling him? Does this signal the end of the Phil Jackson experiment, the rebirth of Mills and dare I say it the return of Isiah & the 2 guard offense?

I hear China MVP Marbury is still in great shape. Perfect if we're going to segue from a Triangle offense to a pace and space zero defense perennial 8th seed knockout.

All you guys think about is Melo.

dude... they made it two pages before bringing up Melo. Credit where credit is due

Can't wait until Melo and Horny butt heads!

I bet that's what you will be rooting for.

I'm rooting for the Knicks to turn it around.

Hiring Hornacek a non triangle guy that only knows pace and space from his Phoenix stint and Pick and Roll from his Utah days...Nah, no clash of idealogies or philosophies from Phil or Me7o at all.

Keep telling yourself that.

You do nothing but whine, eventually people will just tune you out

Glad you like the hire too! Too many sheep here.

that said i don't understand the hire at all, unless of course it means that hornacek has agreed to continue to run the triangle offense almost exclusively. no doubt he can teach the triangle and run it, given his bbiq and assuming rambis remains on the staff.

as phil said, he needed someone with whom he had the all-important sympatico.

I think this is as simple as this... Phil interviewed a bunch of guys and JH won the job. This shouldn't be any more head scratching than that.

EwingsGlass wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This is a great article from Herring:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/knicks-close-to-deal-to-make-jeff-hornacek-their-new-coach-1463618361

Jeff Hornacek is in line to become the Knicks’ next head coach, a person familiar with the matter confirmed late Wednesday night.

The Knicks had yet to confirm the news, and no official deal was in place. But things are moving in that direction, and figure to be completed in the days to come, according to the source.

Hornacek’s candidacy—let alone his being hired—was unexpected, given that Knicks president Phil Jackson said early in the search process that he preferred to speak mostly with prospective coaches who had personal connections to him and his beloved triangle offense.

But according to the source, Jackson is convinced that Hornacek, the former All-Star guard and Phoenix Suns head coach, “is a smart basketball mind who can come up with the right kind of system” for the Knicks, who have much different personnel than did his Suns teams.

That latter point could be key: Were Jackson to let go of the reins and allow Hornacek to run either a hybrid triangle, or another offense altogether, it would mark a huge reversal from how he handled Derek Fisher, who was fired in early February in part because he often allowed his players to deviate from the set offense when things weren’t working.

Of the known candidates—including interim head coach and widely reported favorite Kurt Rambis, former Cleveland Cavaliers coach David Blatt and ex-Indiana Pacers coach Frank Vogel—Hornacek would seem the most stylistically different from Jackson.

Where the triangle offense zigs, creating open looks from the midrange and pinch-post areas of the court, Hornacek’s run-and-gun system seemingly zags, with a more modern, up-tempo pace and preference for 3-pointers and ample driving lanes for wing players.

Hornacek played the final six years of his NBA career in Utah under Jerry Sloan, who used a two-guard front on offense, similar to the triangle.

Some of Hornacek’s style with Phoenix, where he was fired this season after 2 1/2 years on the job, was likely based on his small-ball personnel, given that his best players all happened to be point guards. But there’s no denying that there appear to be differences between how Hornacek and Jackson think about offense.

The 53-year-old Hornacek interviewed for the job on Monday. He was runner-up in NBA Coach of the Year voting in 2014, when he lifted Phoenix to 48 wins from 25 the season before. But he was dismissed midway through this past season with a total record of 101-112.

Where the triangle offense zigs, creating open looks from the midrange and pinch-post areas of the court, Hornacek’s run-and-gun system seemingly zags, with a more modern, up-tempo pace and preference for 3-pointers and ample driving lanes for wing players.

Nixluva, this is my point from my criticism of the Triangle. The mid range shots do no not have efficient TS%, whereas 3pts and drawn fouls do. I understand your point that The triangle has more permutations that can do more AND your point about defensive balance and preparedness. I'd like to see those facets run in a system that maximizes TS% by minimizing midrange shots.

Phil's Lakers team's took a lot more FT's than a team like Golden State. They got inside with post players. They also got open 3's. Overall his teams were still very high in Offensive Efficiency despite running Triangle.

I've said many times that it was never the most efficient offense but it was a balanced offense that worked in regular season and playoffs. His teams didn't have to change when they got to the Post Season.

We still have to see what Jeff decides he's gonna do offensively. I'm sure everyone wants to know how he sees this roster which is NOTHING like his Suns rosters.

H1AND1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:the only thing puzzling about this hire is that is goes against what ALL THE IDIOTS in the media kept saying. I was telling you guys.. just because these idiots regurgitate the same made up assumptions over and over doesn't mean they are true. Phil runs a very quiet ship, and really none of his moves have been well predicted.

I think this is as simple as this... Phil interviewed a bunch of guys and JH won the job. This shouldn't be any more head scratching than that.

This is true. Even though I know the media guys are full of shyte I still let them get to me.

I love this hire and I like that nobody saw it coming in the media. More proof to just tune them out. I was convinced Rambis would be named and Im delighted that Hornacek was hired the year before last in PHO he did a great job and is obviously a smart dude.

bottom line phil wants to have "sympatico" with whomever he works-- it contributes to solidifying a team culture/culture change. he and hornacek will figure it out because of sympatico. just have to allow the process to continue to run, and don't be shocked if hornacek continues to focus on the triangle.

gunsnewing wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Does no triangle signal the end of New-Melo, Team-Melo, Dad-Melo or whatever you guys were calling him? Does this signal the end of the Phil Jackson experiment, the rebirth of Mills and dare I say it the return of Isiah & the 2 guard offense?

You knows but does this mean Melo has now become Jedi/Zen-Melo for getting Phil to do a real search?

I think Phil was forced into the "search"

He wanted Rambis and the power to be more hands on. Melo made it clear to Dolan he wasn't about that. Dolan/Mills forced the search Phil reluctantly went searching. Interviewed Vogel, Blatt with no intention of hiring them but went through the motions to please his bosses with every intention on reverting to Rambis. He never made a legitimate push for Vogel or Blatt. His presentation and plan wasn't convincing to them. They said thanks but no thanks and sought greener passages. Then Phil said FUCK it, FUCK you all and hired his nemesis protege. Either that or he is on his way out leaving the Knicks to start from scratch with a ANOTHER system AGAIN.

Rinse
Repeat
New York Knickerbocker Basketball on MSG

OR....Phil is smart enough to realize that Rambis wasn't the right guy for the job which is why he didn't give the job to him right away. He didn't give Rambis the job with his first hire either deciding to go with a guy who's never coached in the NBA before in D.Fisher....Hmmmmmmmmmm. Phil knows what he's doing and knows that Rambis is better as an assistant than he is as a head coach. You haters can do all the assuming you want but your assumptions are meaningless.

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:THE MEDIA GETS IT RIGHT AGAIN!!!!!

There are few things I really revel in, but watching the NY media totally whiff is utterly enjoyable. It was Rambis all along!

Super interesting is the triangle understory.

I can honestly see this:
Phil and Jeff meet extensively. They quickly find a chemistry, and regardless of potential differences in BB philosophy they can both immediately tell that communication will be good. Jeff says "Phil... I know your system. Trust me nobody knows it better than I do! But here is your roster, and if I had the same team I would have won 50 games and here is how. They spend the next 2 hours drinking beers talking the chess of basketball. Phil is smitten, but cool and remains reserved. Phil goes to Montana and shrooms. Day two its moonshine. Day three Maryjane comes and steals the hangover away. With the cleansing golden trifecta of clear thought having opened his mind he calls Jeff and says "Lets make this happen."

I like this. Out of the box. Great hoops guy. Uber high IQ player. Really cant wait to hear about the offense he's gonna run and if Rambis is on the staff in any capacity more than a player development guy.

I could see your version being close... though he met Hornacek this Monday in LA after his vacation. Maybe they met before and it was a second meeting? Regardless, according to Beck they knew and respected one another.

Most interesting part to me is that Hornacek was told that he wouldn't be forced to run the Triangle (according to JVG, who I trust to be right). Was Phil's trip to Montana a chance to reflect that winning should take precedence to winning with the Triangle (always my main issue with Phil)? I do think there's still a very strong chance he proposed Rambis as an option and was shot down. Blatt was maybe too much a Mills guy, Vogel who knows how they clicked or not, Hornacek is clearly a smart guy and Phil maybe thinks they have a rapport and can work together. Triangle secondary? He said as recently at the end of the season that it'd be pretty important to run the Triangle.

Hornacek's coach Sloan and the Jazz ran a lot of pick and roll, but used a lot of flex action out of the post that had system dictated cuts. The shooting guard (Hornacek) was just as important in initiating offense as the PG (Stockton, though Stockton racked up a ton of assists running the pick and roll with Malone). Sloan and Phil also had a ton of respect for one another. I'm guessing Phil and Hornacek bonded over the system basketball of the Triangle and Jerry Sloan and can find some sort of middle ground that incorporates both.

Hey, I'm glad Phil went outside his coaching tree and may be ready to let go of the Triangle or bust philosophy that some assumed he operated on.

I think this is a good hire that has the potential to be a great hire. I like it. As I said when we thought Walton had a shot to be the coach - I'm all for modernizing the Triangle. THAT is what the Warriors did. The Warriors don't run the 1992 Bulls Triangle - they run their own flavor based on the personnel they have. I think Hornacek is smart enough to adapt to the personnel he has, as he showed in PHX with the two PG attack he created there. I'm cautiously excited.

Also, NOW we can start talking about pieces and guys to target in the draft and free agency. Because we have an idea of who the coach is and what that might look like.

I'd be very on board to add a Brandon Jennings for the way Hornacek coaches. Jennings and Bazemore would be a nice off-season

you had me until you mentioned BJ

what can I say? I think that kid would be good in NY. I know he's not hyper efficient, but there aren't a ton of efficient guards in FA and we don't have a draft pick.

Give Jennings a 2 year "show me" deal $10M in year one, team option for $12M in year two.

I would rather seth curry at that price.

According to Hahn "big guards" will be focus? Batum? Courtney Lee? Bazemore? Who knows.

Ohhhh.. Evan Turner, too. That name keeps cropping up. I bet we give Evan Turner $12M at least. I kiiiiinda like him. I go back and forth. He killed the Knicks a few times this year, for sure.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/alanhahn/status/733113560386162688

Do not count Rondo out.....shouldn't you be way too busy eating crow to be on the message board already??

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:don't get it. with our team, we would have been best with Vogel I think, or Blatt.

I think Phil had enough and decided, let me hire someone with ZERO ties to Knicks personnel.

this is after saying it would be someone with in his circle

Maybe he said that to keep the media off balance. They really had no clue what he would do based on what he said. They all were convinced it would be Rambis!!! Only one guy brought up Jeff early on.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/696799984713396225

smackeddog wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Does no triangle signal the end of New-Melo, Team-Melo, Dad-Melo or whatever you guys were calling him? Does this signal the end of the Phil Jackson experiment, the rebirth of Mills and dare I say it the return of Isiah & the 2 guard offense?

I hear China MVP Marbury is still in great shape. Perfect if we're going to segue from a Triangle offense to a pace and space zero defense perennial 8th seed knockout.

All you guys think about is Melo.

dude... they made it two pages before bringing up Melo. Credit where credit is due

Can't wait until Melo and Horny butt heads!

I bet that's what you will be rooting for.

I'm rooting for the Knicks to turn it around.

Hiring Hornacek a non triangle guy that only knows pace and space from his Phoenix stint and Pick and Roll from his Utah days...Nah, no clash of idealogies or philosophies from Phil or Me7o at all.

Keep telling yourself that.

You do nothing but whine, eventually people will just tune you out

Eventually??