wh4t wrote:

dk7th wrote:

again-- there is NO way you can explain this away.

yes there is. it's 2.1 seconds on the clock.

knickscity wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

OldFan wrote:Sitting in front of my computer, looking at an unobstructed view through a camera lens that captures a birds eye view of the floor and the shot clock, with no defenders obstructing my view or trying to take the ball away from me -

is maybe a little bit different than being on the floor, with an obstructed view, trying to keep the defenders away from the ball and keep track of how much time is left in the game.

I've never loved Melos game, but the criticism he receives on this board is way over done. If you look at game film - players miss open players all the time. It's a lot easier to spot them on film, than when you're actually playing the game.

Exactly!!

Any one who plays sports knows that the game looks totally different from the sidelines than it does on the field/court.

When I see threads like this, I question if folks here have ever played organized Basketball.

Yes, the angles look different, thats common sense. Doesnt mean that melo cant see over his defender, certainly over Rondo.

Apparently it isn't common sense - as many posters seem to believe because they can see KP open on a replay - that it should be obvious to a player running down the court with seconds left in the game trying to avoid multiple defenders (while being fouled) and possibly trying to sneak a look at the clock.

I don't know what Melo saw. Maybe he saw him but didn't think he had time to get the pass to him.

Maybe he thought he'd get the foul call.

Maybe he committed to shooting too soon.

I don't know. But I know on the court the play looks much different and the player is contending with a lot more than I am looking at a replay, and has to make a split second decision. He doesn't get to rewind the play and freeze a frame.

Players miss open players all the time and I think in that situation it's understandable.

When I first saw it I was thinking Geeezz wow he screwed that up. But the more I think about it, its hard to really kill him for that. People talk about the refs but in that few seconds of time your not calculating about how the refs don't give you calls so don't play for a foul etc.. More so trying to get a shot up with the few seconds left. I doubt he knew ahead of time that Cousins would completely forget about KP. Since Melo lowered his head down after the bump by Rondo he probably lost track of the shot clock as well. To get the ball to KP, Melo would have to have visualized that opening forming before it did. Drive draw the D and make the play. But again after the bump on Rondo he lowered his head and didn't see or forsee KP sliding over which is y the pic doesn't tell the full story.

With all the variables like shot clock and Rondo fouling again its tough to kill him for it. To kill him on it would be if he had a clear choice if to pass it to KP or to shoot a contested shot and chose the latter. But that's not what I see. I see him lower his head with his eyes on the double teamer which stops him from seeing the full court and raise for a shot.

dk7th wrote:

OldFan wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

OldFan wrote:Sitting in front of my computer, looking at an unobstructed view through a camera lens that captures a birds eye view of the floor and the shot clock, with no defenders obstructing my view or trying to take the ball away from me -

is maybe a little bit different than being on the floor, with an obstructed view, trying to keep the defenders away from the ball and keep track of how much time is left in the game.

I've never loved Melos game, but the criticism he receives on this board is way over done. If you look at game film - players miss open players all the time. It's a lot easier to spot them on film, than when you're actually playing the game.

Exactly!!

Any one who plays sports knows that the game looks totally different from the sidelines than it does on the field/court.

When I see threads like this, I question if folks here have ever played organized Basketball.

Yes, the angles look different, thats common sense. Doesnt mean that melo cant see over his defender, certainly over Rondo.

Apparently it isn't common sense - as many posters seem to believe because they can see KP open on a replay - that it should be obvious to a player running down the court with seconds left in the game trying to avoid multiple defenders (while being fouled) and possibly trying to sneak a look at the clock.

I don't know what Melo saw. Maybe he saw him but didn't think he had time to get the pass to him.

Maybe he thought he'd get the foul call.

Maybe he committed to shooting too soon.

I don't know. But I know on the court the play looks much different and the player is contending with a lot more than I am looking at a replay, and has to make a split second decision. He doesn't get to rewind the play and freeze a frame.

Players miss open players all the time and I think in that situation it's understandable.

look at the angle of melo's right elbow: what do you see?

look at the position that rondo is in: what do you see?

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Seems pretty clear from the video as the picture doesn't show the whole scenario. Melo recieves the ball and drives. Rondo then bumbs Melo, Melo then lowers his head and gathers to shoot. He didn't see Kristap at all. When he lowers his head and gathers to shoot he only looked at the double team defender and then the rim for a shot.

When I first saw it I was thinking Geeezz wow he screwed that up. But the more I think about it, its hard to really kill him for that. People talk about the refs but in that few seconds of time your not calculating about how the refs don't give you calls so don't play for a foul etc.. More so trying to get a shot up with the few seconds left. I doubt he knew ahead of time that Cousins would completely forget about KP. Since Melo lowered his head down after the bump by Rondo he probably lost track of the shot clock as well. To get the ball to KP, Melo would have to have visualized that opening forming before it did. Drive draw the D and make the play. But again after the bump on Rondo he lowered his head and didn't see or forsee KP sliding over which is y the pic doesn't tell the full story.

With all the variables like shot clock and Rondo fouling again its tough to kill him for it. To kill him on it would be if he had a clear choice if to pass it to KP or to shoot a contested shot and chose the latter. But that's not what I see. I see him lower his head with his eyes on the double teamer which stops him from seeing the full court and raise for a shot.

he gets killed because he should know he is going to experience all the things that went on the play-- he has had an entire nba career of exactly these kinds of events-- and yet STILL he manages to make the same dumb play he always has.

and yes i do remember the pass he made to jeffries under the hoop a few seasons ago.

He would have to know that Cousins would play it that way which is impossible to know ahead of time. Then he would have to know that KP would slide over while also believing Cousins would never look to locate KP. All these things were spur of the moment actions. Melo would have had to immediately in split second timing decipher all of this while being hounded/fouled by Rondo.

His main flaw was lowering his head after the initial contact. But even with that he was trying to get past the defender to even be able to make a play.

KP should have been stretched out to the 3 pt line on one side while everyone else would line up on the opposite. This would have given Melo an open path to the rim and or predetermined pass options.

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Mreinman hates Carmelo as much as I hate Fisher:::)))

More! He just wants him to play the right way.

not sure if you are being sarcastic but that his absolutely true. I will the first one to jump on the melo bandwagon if he changed his game and played the right way. I don't hate him at all, I hate his terrible decisions at times.

Swishfm3 wrote:

OldFan wrote:Sitting in front of my computer, looking at an unobstructed view through a camera lens that captures a birds eye view of the floor and the shot clock, with no defenders obstructing my view or trying to take the ball away from me -

is maybe a little bit different than being on the floor, with an obstructed view, trying to keep the defenders away from the ball and keep track of how much time is left in the game.

I've never loved Melos game, but the criticism he receives on this board is way over done. If you look at game film - players miss open players all the time. It's a lot easier to spot them on film, than when you're actually playing the game.

Exactly!!

Any one who plays sports knows that the game looks totally different from the sidelines than it does on the field/court.

When I see threads like this, I question if folks here have ever played organized Basketball.

I did for many years and I can tell you that there was nothing more frustrating then a player putting their heads down and ignoring (open) teammates.

As I said, if he took a hook from half court there is no way in hell that you would say a word about it.

newyorknewyork wrote:Seems pretty clear from the video as the picture doesn't show the whole scenario. Melo recieves the ball and drives. Rondo then bumbs Melo, Melo then lowers his head and gathers to shoot. He didn't see Kristap at all. When he lowers his head and gathers to shoot he only looked at the double team defender and then the rim for a shot.

When I first saw it I was thinking Geeezz wow he screwed that up. But the more I think about it, its hard to really kill him for that. People talk about the refs but in that few seconds of time your not calculating about how the refs don't give you calls so don't play for a foul etc.. More so trying to get a shot up with the few seconds left. I doubt he knew ahead of time that Cousins would completely forget about KP. Since Melo lowered his head down after the bump by Rondo he probably lost track of the shot clock as well. To get the ball to KP, Melo would have to have visualized that opening forming before it did. Drive draw the D and make the play. But again after the bump on Rondo he lowered his head and didn't see or forsee KP sliding over which is y the pic doesn't tell the full story.

With all the variables like shot clock and Rondo fouling again its tough to kill him for it. To kill him on it would be if he had a clear choice if to pass it to KP or to shoot a contested shot and chose the latter. But that's not what I see. I see him lower his head with his eyes on the double teamer which stops him from seeing the full court and raise for a shot.

Do you think cousins forgot about KP? No way! He got the memo and he was right. It was a no lose gamble.

I no when I play defense and a guy has the ball on the other team and it is known that this guy does not pass, we run everybody at him and he will never hit the open man. Happens all the time. Easy to gamble against this because its not a gamble.

mreinman wrote:

OldFan wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

OldFan wrote:Sitting in front of my computer, looking at an unobstructed view through a camera lens that captures a birds eye view of the floor and the shot clock, with no defenders obstructing my view or trying to take the ball away from me -

is maybe a little bit different than being on the floor, with an obstructed view, trying to keep the defenders away from the ball and keep track of how much time is left in the game.

I've never loved Melos game, but the criticism he receives on this board is way over done. If you look at game film - players miss open players all the time. It's a lot easier to spot them on film, than when you're actually playing the game.

Exactly!!

Any one who plays sports knows that the game looks totally different from the sidelines than it does on the field/court.

When I see threads like this, I question if folks here have ever played organized Basketball.

Yes, the angles look different, thats common sense. Doesnt mean that melo cant see over his defender, certainly over Rondo.

Apparently it isn't common sense - as many posters seem to believe because they can see KP open on a replay - that it should be obvious to a player running down the court with seconds left in the game trying to avoid multiple defenders (while being fouled) and possibly trying to sneak a look at the clock.

I don't know what Melo saw. Maybe he saw him but didn't think he had time to get the pass to him.

Maybe he thought he'd get the foul call.

Maybe he committed to shooting too soon.

I don't know. But I know on the court the play looks much different and the player is contending with a lot more than I am looking at a replay, and has to make a split second decision. He doesn't get to rewind the play and freeze a frame.

Players miss open players all the time and I think in that situation it's understandable.

Some players do miss open player some times and some do it all the time. If melo just sometimes made the right play in that situation and was for the most part a willing passer then it would not be a big deal.

Please tell me the last time you saw melo make the right play in a game ending situation?

I think he probably made the right play in that situation.

You only see a better play because you have no defenders around you, you are not getting fouled and you are under no time pressure and are seeing the court from a birds eye view. On the court it's a totally different situation. When you are trying to get a shot off in a limited amount of time with defenders around you it is nearly impossible to pay attention to the clock, the rim, the defenders and your team mates without missing something. Add into that he has just jerked his arm free from being held and I think you are asking the nearly impossible.

Melo has his flaws, but I think in this situation you are being much to hard on him.

mreinman wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:It was just one shot but the fact is most of us can't recall many times Melo demonstrated the ability to make the correct play. Getting fouled doesn't change this, he has a tendency to put his head down and go for the shot most of the time. It would be great to see him develop a higher level of b-ball smarts and make the right play. Lebron did this, Jordan, even Kobe at times made the right basketball play. Factor in that he's not as good as those players (in their prime) and that we constructed a roster to compensate for these non-strengths - that's why most of us are frustrated and hoping for better. It's not his fault but if he's assuming a max contract, he does bear more responsibility, accountability and criticism. I also believe that some of us would still be critical if he passed to KP and the time ran out - but it would start to change the notion that Melo is focused on being the "hero" or star. Selflessness goes a long way with many of us, and I know I'd feel better with the outcome knowing there was potential for a different outcome going forward.

wow - perfect!

Agreed. Very well stated

dk7th wrote:

OldFan wrote:

mreinman wrote:

OldFan wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

OldFan wrote:Sitting in front of my computer, looking at an unobstructed view through a camera lens that captures a birds eye view of the floor and the shot clock, with no defenders obstructing my view or trying to take the ball away from me -

is maybe a little bit different than being on the floor, with an obstructed view, trying to keep the defenders away from the ball and keep track of how much time is left in the game.

I've never loved Melos game, but the criticism he receives on this board is way over done. If you look at game film - players miss open players all the time. It's a lot easier to spot them on film, than when you're actually playing the game.

Exactly!!

Any one who plays sports knows that the game looks totally different from the sidelines than it does on the field/court.

When I see threads like this, I question if folks here have ever played organized Basketball.

Yes, the angles look different, thats common sense. Doesnt mean that melo cant see over his defender, certainly over Rondo.

Apparently it isn't common sense - as many posters seem to believe because they can see KP open on a replay - that it should be obvious to a player running down the court with seconds left in the game trying to avoid multiple defenders (while being fouled) and possibly trying to sneak a look at the clock.

I don't know what Melo saw. Maybe he saw him but didn't think he had time to get the pass to him.

Maybe he thought he'd get the foul call.

Maybe he committed to shooting too soon.

I don't know. But I know on the court the play looks much different and the player is contending with a lot more than I am looking at a replay, and has to make a split second decision. He doesn't get to rewind the play and freeze a frame.

Players miss open players all the time and I think in that situation it's understandable.

Some players do miss open player some times and some do it all the time. If melo just sometimes made the right play in that situation and was for the most part a willing passer then it would not be a big deal.

Please tell me the last time you saw melo make the right play in a game ending situation?

I think he probably made the right play in that situation.

You only see a better play because you have no defenders around you, you are not getting fouled and you are under no time pressure and are seeing the court from a birds eye view. On the court it's a totally different situation. When you are trying to get a shot off in a limited amount of time with defenders around you it is nearly impossible to pay attention to the clock, the rim, the defenders and your team mates without missing something. Add into that he has just jerked his arm free from being held and I think you are asking the nearly impossible.

Melo has his flaws, but I think in this situation you are being much to hard on him.

that's illogical. if he keeps making the same "decision" under similar circumstances and it results in the same success rate-- i.e. very low success rate, then he made the WRONG PLAY in that situation.

have you not detected a pattern over the course of his career?

You never make the "same" decision in the "same" situation - it is a different situation each time. I am not discussing Melo's career The comment was about this game. In this case I think his critics are being to hard on him.

What is illogical to me (note I except that other may see it differently) - is watching a replay and a freeze frame and ignoring the context of the play, the fact that the player is making decisions in real time and the fact that the player prospective on the court is totally different. OK - my last comment on the subject.

Thanks for the conversation.