I bet he's gotta be 15-20 lbs. heavier now, at least. You figure that's definitely been a major problem with his development. The Cole Aldrich Kansas version was very quick and spry on both ends for a guy almost 7'. Could he get back to this level of play? He's only 27. It would take a lot of effort on his part--he's dug himself a little bit of a hole. I'd say he's gotta lose at least 15 lbs., then he's gotta get back in that gym and work feverishly everyday to improve his skills. This kid was an academic all-American in college. I can't believe with all the money in the NBA that's there for the taking, he hasn't taken his craft more seriously. Robin Lopez just got $50mm from the Knicks. If I'm this guy, I'd be thinking, "****, I'm better than that guy. I gotta get paid too." This is only one problem though--the other two, fit and usage, may not be his fault. He needs a team that values him and is prepared to use him. Phil asked Alexey Shved to gain weight and tone himself up during the offseason. When he didn't, I think Phil wrote him off. I wonder if it was the opposite for Cole--I wonder if he asked Cole to lose weight and hone his skills. Like Shved, maybe Phil thought Cole failed to follow through. Cole was borderline to even make the team last year if I remember correctly. Even if he never regained the quickness and athleticism he showed in college, I still think he could be a useful player, esp. in his price range (at least $12mm less than what Robin Lopez is making this year):

Against Toronto at home in 2014 vs. Toronto, Jonas Valanciunas

Last game of the 2015 season vs. Detroit, Andre Drummond/Greg Monroe

Against Orlando, Nikola Vucevic. One of the two wins down the stretch that a lot of us were upset about

mreinman wrote:need to let players who you are really high on go at some point. There are so many reasons that things don't work out from mental health to weight to strength to politics ... life is about opportunities, some don't get em, some just don't make the best of them, some get screwed. Luck is a big part of it too. Don't know how doug collins lives with himself

When I look at Cole and think about what he did in college, what he did here for us, what he's capable of doing compared to Robin Lopez and how much he makes compared to Robin Lopez (a huge part of it -- we're talking money that could've been spent elsewhere this past offseason or deferred 'til next offseason), I like him better than Robin Lopez. Nothing against Lopez--he's a worker--I just feel he's limited ability-wise and vastly overpaid.

mreinman wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:need to let players who you are really high on go at some point. There are so many reasons that things don't work out from mental health to weight to strength to politics ... life is about opportunities, some don't get em, some just don't make the best of them, some get screwed. Luck is a big part of it too. Don't know how doug collins lives with himself

When I look at Cole and think about what he did in college, what he did here for us, what he's capable of doing compared to Robin Lopez and how much he makes compared to Robin Lopez (a huge part of it -- we're talking money that could've been spent elsewhere this past offseason or deferred 'til next offseason), I like him better than Robin Lopez. Nothing against Lopez--he's a worker--I just feel he's limited ability-wise and vastly overpaid.

Lopez did it at a high level for a really good team. Cole did nothing other than have good spurts. Not sure how you can be so absolute about this without him having proven anything.

Robin Lopez plays really good defense, sets excellent screens, scores very efficiently, is a team guy, qb's the defense. You seem like you are not willing to be open minded about changing your stance on him.

I don't dislike RoLo and don't discount what you're saying (maybe "scores very efficiently" is a little overstated though, no? And I notice you left out rebounding--he's not a great rebounder at all in my estimation). I just don't like him at the price we got him for AT ALL. Managing a salary cap is crucial in the NBA. I hope I'm wrong about him and that salary of his turns out to be fitting and deserving, not something we'll wind up regretting. I mean even with the cap set to expand, we still won't have room for a max offer, even if we stretched Calderon..

But Rolo is that anchor man on the court and off the court, that you can trust. You pay a little extra for those NBA pro guys, that knows their role.....Plus he also showed interest in being here and has family ties to the area, while having patients to see if Monroe was going to take the offer.... Then on top of that, the cap is going up.

I see both sides, but I also see Phils thinking when adding Rolo. It really takes a deep basketball mind to understand this logic. On the surface, Rolo is not the guy you pickup in a pickup game at the park, but he can be a championship piece on an NBA team, over a long season.....just with his leadership and locker room presences alone.

Just wanted to add my two cents.....

nixluva wrote:I fail to see how what we paid RoLo is so outside the value for a proven starting C from a playoff team! RoLo was paid fairly compared to comparable C's. It's a JOKE IMO to look at Cole and RoLo and not understand why RoLo got paid and Cole was let go. RoLo isn't sexy or a star but he has shown he can be depended on to give a team a presence inside. This team was in need of an anchor.
RoLo is a more well rounded player. Just watching RoLo you can tell his BB IQ is higher than Cole's.

Rolo is needed for rookie coaches. He can be that extension of a coach on the court. This is what I liked about Kidd and all those vets we had like Rasheed and camby. Sometimes it doesn't always workout as planned. But Jose Calderon is another example. you saw last game he stepped up when the media was criticizing him.....he didn't hide and just fall to the negativity. That's a learning lesson for our young guards. Also how he spoke about winning and it's all about the team. That's the leadership Phil needs from these vets. And that's why they are playing a major role right now.

WaltLongmire wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:need to let players who you are really high on go at some point. There are so many reasons that things don't work out from mental health to weight to strength to politics ... life is about opportunities, some don't get em, some just don't make the best of them, some get screwed. Luck is a big part of it too. Don't know how doug collins lives with himself

When I look at Cole and think about what he did in college, what he did here for us, what he's capable of doing compared to Robin Lopez and how much he makes compared to Robin Lopez (a huge part of it -- we're talking money that could've been spent elsewhere this past offseason or deferred 'til next offseason), I like him better than Robin Lopez. Nothing against Lopez--he's a worker--I just feel he's limited ability-wise and vastly overpaid.

Lopez did it at a high level for a really good team. Cole did nothing other than have good spurts. Not sure how you can be so absolute about this without him having proven anything.

Robin Lopez plays really good defense, sets excellent screens, scores very efficiently, is a team guy, qb's the defense. You seem like you are not willing to be open minded about changing your stance on him.

I don't dislike RoLo and don't discount what you're saying (maybe "scores very efficiently" is a little overstated though, no? And I notice you left out rebounding--he's not a great rebounder at all in my estimation). I just don't like him at the price we got him for AT ALL. Managing a salary cap is crucial in the NBA. I hope I'm wrong about him and that salary of his turns out to be fitting and deserving, not something we'll wind up regretting. I mean even with the cap set to expand, we still won't have room for a max offer, even if we stretched Calderon..

The only way his contract is bad is that we don't have a team option for the 4th year. As mentioned earlier...we have complete control of him for the rest of his prime years, so Phil has some flexibility based on how things play out...especially KPs progress as a potential center.

Not sure who is available at the 5 position next year, but salaries will be inflated when the cap explodes, and what we gave Lopez should look like a pretty good deal.

Lopez is not a great player in any specific category, but he does a number of things you want from a big man, and is willing to mix it up down low.

You also get a guy who seems to be a good teammate with some leadership ability, and he seems very much at ease with the NY media.

I see Lopez as a bridge to the day when KP takes over at the center position. KP will be 24 when Lopez' contract ends. If he matures physically the way I anticipate he will, KP will take over at the 5.

You so sure that KP should ever be a 5? Just because of his height? Why can't he just be a taller version of Durant/Dirk/KG?

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:need to let players who you are really high on go at some point. There are so many reasons that things don't work out from mental health to weight to strength to politics ... life is about opportunities, some don't get em, some just don't make the best of them, some get screwed. Luck is a big part of it too. Don't know how doug collins lives with himself

When I look at Cole and think about what he did in college, what he did here for us, what he's capable of doing compared to Robin Lopez and how much he makes compared to Robin Lopez (a huge part of it -- we're talking money that could've been spent elsewhere this past offseason or deferred 'til next offseason), I like him better than Robin Lopez. Nothing against Lopez--he's a worker--I just feel he's limited ability-wise and vastly overpaid.

Lopez did it at a high level for a really good team. Cole did nothing other than have good spurts. Not sure how you can be so absolute about this without him having proven anything.

Robin Lopez plays really good defense, sets excellent screens, scores very efficiently, is a team guy, qb's the defense. You seem like you are not willing to be open minded about changing your stance on him.

I don't dislike RoLo and don't discount what you're saying (maybe "scores very efficiently" is a little overstated though, no? And I notice you left out rebounding--he's not a great rebounder at all in my estimation). I just don't like him at the price we got him for AT ALL. Managing a salary cap is crucial in the NBA. I hope I'm wrong about him and that salary of his turns out to be fitting and deserving, not something we'll wind up regretting. I mean even with the cap set to expand, we still won't have room for a max offer, even if we stretched Calderon..

The only way his contract is bad is that we don't have a team option for the 4th year. As mentioned earlier...we have complete control of him for the rest of his prime years, so Phil has some flexibility based on how things play out...especially KPs progress as a potential center.

Not sure who is available at the 5 position next year, but salaries will be inflated when the cap explodes, and what we gave Lopez should look like a pretty good deal.

Lopez is not a great player in any specific category, but he does a number of things you want from a big man, and is willing to mix it up down low.

You also get a guy who seems to be a good teammate with some leadership ability, and he seems very much at ease with the NY media.

I see Lopez as a bridge to the day when KP takes over at the center position. KP will be 24 when Lopez' contract ends. If he matures physically the way I anticipate he will, KP will take over at the 5.

You so sure that KP should ever be a 5? Just because of his height? Why can't he just be a taller version of Durant/Dirk/KG?

Right now it looks like KP is a lock at PF or Center. Just like KD can and will always be able to play 2 or 3 positions. I think KP is in the special category of being more than capable of playing multiple positions for the rest of his career. That makes it easier to build around him.

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:need to let players who you are really high on go at some point. There are so many reasons that things don't work out from mental health to weight to strength to politics ... life is about opportunities, some don't get em, some just don't make the best of them, some get screwed. Luck is a big part of it too. Don't know how doug collins lives with himself

When I look at Cole and think about what he did in college, what he did here for us, what he's capable of doing compared to Robin Lopez and how much he makes compared to Robin Lopez (a huge part of it -- we're talking money that could've been spent elsewhere this past offseason or deferred 'til next offseason), I like him better than Robin Lopez. Nothing against Lopez--he's a worker--I just feel he's limited ability-wise and vastly overpaid.

Lopez did it at a high level for a really good team. Cole did nothing other than have good spurts. Not sure how you can be so absolute about this without him having proven anything.

Robin Lopez plays really good defense, sets excellent screens, scores very efficiently, is a team guy, qb's the defense. You seem like you are not willing to be open minded about changing your stance on him.

I don't dislike RoLo and don't discount what you're saying (maybe "scores very efficiently" is a little overstated though, no? And I notice you left out rebounding--he's not a great rebounder at all in my estimation). I just don't like him at the price we got him for AT ALL. Managing a salary cap is crucial in the NBA. I hope I'm wrong about him and that salary of his turns out to be fitting and deserving, not something we'll wind up regretting. I mean even with the cap set to expand, we still won't have room for a max offer, even if we stretched Calderon..

The only way his contract is bad is that we don't have a team option for the 4th year. As mentioned earlier...we have complete control of him for the rest of his prime years, so Phil has some flexibility based on how things play out...especially KPs progress as a potential center.

Not sure who is available at the 5 position next year, but salaries will be inflated when the cap explodes, and what we gave Lopez should look like a pretty good deal.

Lopez is not a great player in any specific category, but he does a number of things you want from a big man, and is willing to mix it up down low.

You also get a guy who seems to be a good teammate with some leadership ability, and he seems very much at ease with the NY media.

I see Lopez as a bridge to the day when KP takes over at the center position. KP will be 24 when Lopez' contract ends. If he matures physically the way I anticipate he will, KP will take over at the 5.

You so sure that KP should ever be a 5? Just because of his height? Why can't he just be a taller version of Durant/Dirk/KG?

I do think that his greatest impact might be as a defensive player, and he can do more of what he does best at the center position, IMO.

Heck...if he is a franchise talent, I don't care where he ends up playing, to be honest.

Would still like to see him get some time at the 5, though. My gut feeling is that Phil sees him there at some point, but I'm not even sure that he cares about these designations anyway.

crzymdups wrote:I think Robin Lopez is a much better fit for this team in terms of building a culture and an identity.

KP and Melo and Afflalo can bring the offense. Lopez has actually been solid bringing offense when needed - I think he'll improve as the season goes on.

Monroe just doesn't ever seem to impact the game that much. His defense is non-existent. If you think KP commits a lot of fouls now, he'd be committing even more trying to cover for Monroe.

And it's been pointed out that Robin Lopez creates great opportunities for his teammates to get rebounds with his boxing out. Could be an unheralded reason why KP is at 8rpg - way higher than he's ever averaged in his pro career in similar minutes. KP's rebounding rate has doubled in the NBA from his Spanish league stats. I think Robin Lopez is a partial reason why.

I'm fine with Lopez over Monroe

excellent point