mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:New Yorkers are Number One...

At turning true Knickslove into true Knicks disgust and coveting thy neighbor's power forward.

I have a couple of buddies that are huge sixers fans. My guess is if they could go back in time have Ewing over Chuck they would take Ewing.

and I am sure that has more to do with barkley being a nut job / loose canon. Not because ewing was a better player. That is a joke.

I would be scared to draft Dennis Rodman too but he may have been the best defender / rebounder of all time.

Ewing's defense along with his offense made him a superior to Barkely..Unless you are now saying defense isn't that big a deal?

Defense is a very big deal and why Ewing's teams were successful this entire career. And did it without a player as good as Kevin Johnson, John Stockton, Drexler or Dream. Also it is why Melo and his teams underachieve most years

It's a lot different today..The rules have changed..But back then, you weren't sniffing the Finals unless you played defense..

Who has Melo played with to say his teams underachieved??..He won 50 games like 7/8 years in a row and lost to some eventual Finals winners..The one year he had another legit player he got to the WCF..I know the hate is there but u have to see the facts too..

funny that you don't make the same arguments for nash like you do for melo. Who did Nash take to the WCF? Who eventually won it all that year?

Amare(all star), Marion(all star), Joe Johnson(all star), QRich, Barbosa, Diaw, Dragic..

funny guy LOL

Amare did not play in that run

JJ was not even on the team

Marion was a really underrated player that Nash made a much better player. I love marion more than most btw but lets not go gaga over him as a #2 sidekick.

Check out his (nash) stats again for his career and check out his roster that he took to the WCF.

BE FAIR AND BALANCED FOR HEAVENS SAKE!

QRich? Dragic ... are you freakin kidding me? You are clueless!

I'm stating the players Nash played with and compare them to Melo...Marion 19 pts, 11 boards, 2 stl, 1.5 blk...QRich 15 pts, 6reb...Joe Johnson 17 pts, 5reb,4 asst...

But my entire argument is that Melo didn't underachieve..Compare the two rosters both players played with and how did we start comparing Melo and Nash???

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:New Yorkers are Number One...

At turning true Knickslove into true Knicks disgust and coveting thy neighbor's power forward.

I have a couple of buddies that are huge sixers fans. My guess is if they could go back in time have Ewing over Chuck they would take Ewing.

and I am sure that has more to do with barkley being a nut job / loose canon. Not because ewing was a better player. That is a joke.

I would be scared to draft Dennis Rodman too but he may have been the best defender / rebounder of all time.

Ewing's defense along with his offense made him a superior to Barkely..Unless you are now saying defense isn't that big a deal?

Defense is a very big deal and why Ewing's teams were successful this entire career. And did it without a player as good as Kevin Johnson, John Stockton, Drexler or Dream. Also it is why Melo and his teams underachieve most years

It's a lot different today..The rules have changed..But back then, you weren't sniffing the Finals unless you played defense..

Who has Melo played with to say his teams underachieved??..He won 50 games like 7/8 years in a row and lost to some eventual Finals winners..The one year he had another legit player he got to the WCF..I know the hate is there but u have to see the facts too..

funny that you don't make the same arguments for nash like you do for melo. Who did Nash take to the WCF? Who eventually won it all that year?

Amare(all star), Marion(all star), Joe Johnson(all star), QRich, Barbosa, Diaw, Dragic..

funny guy LOL

Amare did not play in that run

JJ was not even on the team

Marion was a really underrated player that Nash made a much better player. I love marion more than most btw but lets not go gaga over him as a #2 sidekick.

Check out his (nash) stats again for his career and check out his roster that he took to the WCF.

BE FAIR AND BALANCED FOR HEAVENS SAKE!

QRich? Dragic ... are you freakin kidding me? You are clueless!

Marion was 3rd team all nba and 10th in mvp voting the year Amare was out. He wasn't just a good player. The guy grabbed almost a 1,000 rebounds and 100 more steals than Nash. Marion was a beast that year.

ok ... again. I love marion. He is not a shaq type number 2 or Wade. Or Pippen. 10th is still good but not good enough.

Can we please give Nash his due?

Who isn't giving Nash his due???..He wasn't better than Ewing...

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:New Yorkers are Number One...

At turning true Knickslove into true Knicks disgust and coveting thy neighbor's power forward.

I have a couple of buddies that are huge sixers fans. My guess is if they could go back in time have Ewing over Chuck they would take Ewing.

and I am sure that has more to do with barkley being a nut job / loose canon. Not because ewing was a better player. That is a joke.

I would be scared to draft Dennis Rodman too but he may have been the best defender / rebounder of all time.

Ewing's defense along with his offense made him a superior to Barkely..Unless you are now saying defense isn't that big a deal?

Defense is a very big deal and why Ewing's teams were successful this entire career. And did it without a player as good as Kevin Johnson, John Stockton, Drexler or Dream. Also it is why Melo and his teams underachieve most years

It's a lot different today..The rules have changed..But back then, you weren't sniffing the Finals unless you played defense..

Who has Melo played with to say his teams underachieved??..He won 50 games like 7/8 years in a row and lost to some eventual Finals winners..The one year he had another legit player he got to the WCF..I know the hate is there but u have to see the facts too..

funny that you don't make the same arguments for nash like you do for melo. Who did Nash take to the WCF? Who eventually won it all that year?

Amare(all star), Marion(all star), Joe Johnson(all star), QRich, Barbosa, Diaw, Dragic..

funny guy LOL

Amare did not play in that run

JJ was not even on the team

Marion was a really underrated player that Nash made a much better player. I love marion more than most btw but lets not go gaga over him as a #2 sidekick.

Check out his (nash) stats again for his career and check out his roster that he took to the WCF.

BE FAIR AND BALANCED FOR HEAVENS SAKE!

QRich? Dragic ... are you freakin kidding me? You are clueless!

Marion was 3rd team all nba and 10th in mvp voting the year Amare was out. He wasn't just a good player. The guy grabbed almost a 1,000 rebounds and 100 more steals than Nash. Marion was a beast that year.

ok ... again. I love marion. He is not a shaq type number 2 or Wade. Or Pippen. 10th is still good but not good enough.

Can we please give Nash his due?

Who isn't giving Nash his due???..He wasn't better than Ewing...

better? How do you define that? Who you would draft if you were starting a team? MVP's? Efficiency? Expectations? Defense? Making teammates better? Playoff performances?

If I was starting a team I would draft ewing ... duh

If I wanted to choose between prime ewing and prime nash for a season of course I would pick nash over ewing, I am not insane. Its not remotely close.

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:New Yorkers are Number One...

At turning true Knickslove into true Knicks disgust and coveting thy neighbor's power forward.

I have a couple of buddies that are huge sixers fans. My guess is if they could go back in time have Ewing over Chuck they would take Ewing.

and I am sure that has more to do with barkley being a nut job / loose canon. Not because ewing was a better player. That is a joke.

I would be scared to draft Dennis Rodman too but he may have been the best defender / rebounder of all time.

Ewing's defense along with his offense made him a superior to Barkely..Unless you are now saying defense isn't that big a deal?

Defense is a very big deal and why Ewing's teams were successful this entire career. And did it without a player as good as Kevin Johnson, John Stockton, Drexler or Dream. Also it is why Melo and his teams underachieve most years

It's a lot different today..The rules have changed..But back then, you weren't sniffing the Finals unless you played defense..

Who has Melo played with to say his teams underachieved??..He won 50 games like 7/8 years in a row and lost to some eventual Finals winners..The one year he had another legit player he got to the WCF..I know the hate is there but u have to see the facts too..

funny that you don't make the same arguments for nash like you do for melo. Who did Nash take to the WCF? Who eventually won it all that year?

Amare(all star), Marion(all star), Joe Johnson(all star), QRich, Barbosa, Diaw, Dragic..

funny guy LOL

Amare did not play in that run

JJ was not even on the team

Marion was a really underrated player that Nash made a much better player. I love marion more than most btw but lets not go gaga over him as a #2 sidekick.

Check out his (nash) stats again for his career and check out his roster that he took to the WCF.

BE FAIR AND BALANCED FOR HEAVENS SAKE!

QRich? Dragic ... are you freakin kidding me? You are clueless!

I'm stating the players Nash played with and compare them to Melo...Marion 19 pts, 11 boards, 2 stl, 1.5 blk...QRich 15 pts, 6reb...Joe Johnson 17 pts, 5reb,4 asst...

But my entire argument is that Melo didn't underachieve..Compare the two rosters both players played with and how did we start comparing Melo and Nash???

I did not bring up nash. I was responding to a mention of him. And, just can't believe that you are knocking him.

Melo played with Billups who was much higher in the running for MVP that Marion or anybody else you mentioned.

Camby and Kmart were top defenders and rebounders, no?

Nene was a pretty damn good player.

I don't think that Melo really under achieved in Denver in the regular season, I just think that he did not capitalize on his opportunities by stinking it up too often in the playoffs.

Nash was excellent in the playoffs.

Barkley was off the charts in the playoffs.

Melo was usually pretty awful in the playoffs.

Ewing was ok but not great in the playoffs.

Bro you are all over the place..I can't really respond to the many themes being presented..Nash was a completely different discussion being compared to Ewing..I don't know where u get I'm knocking him..You are trying to compare him to Melo then playoffs ..Cant do it..

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:New Yorkers are Number One...

At turning true Knickslove into true Knicks disgust and coveting thy neighbor's power forward.

I have a couple of buddies that are huge sixers fans. My guess is if they could go back in time have Ewing over Chuck they would take Ewing.

and I am sure that has more to do with barkley being a nut job / loose canon. Not because ewing was a better player. That is a joke.

I would be scared to draft Dennis Rodman too but he may have been the best defender / rebounder of all time.

Ewing's defense along with his offense made him a superior to Barkely..Unless you are now saying defense isn't that big a deal?

Defense is a very big deal and why Ewing's teams were successful this entire career. And did it without a player as good as Kevin Johnson, John Stockton, Drexler or Dream. Also it is why Melo and his teams underachieve most years

It's a lot different today..The rules have changed..But back then, you weren't sniffing the Finals unless you played defense..

Who has Melo played with to say his teams underachieved??..He won 50 games like 7/8 years in a row and lost to some eventual Finals winners..The one year he had another legit player he got to the WCF..I know the hate is there but u have to see the facts too..

funny that you don't make the same arguments for nash like you do for melo. Who did Nash take to the WCF? Who eventually won it all that year?

Amare(all star), Marion(all star), Joe Johnson(all star), QRich, Barbosa, Diaw, Dragic..

funny guy LOL

Amare did not play in that run

JJ was not even on the team

Marion was a really underrated player that Nash made a much better player. I love marion more than most btw but lets not go gaga over him as a #2 sidekick.

Check out his (nash) stats again for his career and check out his roster that he took to the WCF.

BE FAIR AND BALANCED FOR HEAVENS SAKE!

QRich? Dragic ... are you freakin kidding me? You are clueless!

I'm stating the players Nash played with and compare them to Melo...Marion 19 pts, 11 boards, 2 stl, 1.5 blk...QRich 15 pts, 6reb...Joe Johnson 17 pts, 5reb,4 asst...

But my entire argument is that Melo didn't underachieve..Compare the two rosters both players played with and how did we start comparing Melo and Nash???

I did not bring up nash. I was responding to a mention of him. And, just can't believe that you are knocking him.

Melo played with Billups who was much higher in the running for MVP that Marion or anybody else you mentioned.

Camby and Kmart were top defenders and rebounders, no?

Nene was a pretty damn good player.

I don't think that Melo really under achieved in Denver in the regular season, I just think that he did not capitalize on his opportunities by stinking it up too often in the playoffs.

Nash was excellent in the playoffs.

Barkley was off the charts in the playoffs.

Melo was usually pretty awful in the playoffs.

Ewing was ok but not great in the playoffs.

Bro you are all over the place..I can't really respond to the many themes being presented..Nash was a completely different discussion being compared to Ewing..I don't know where u get I'm knocking him..You are trying to compare him to Melo then playoffs ..Cant do it..

thats fine. we can table the nash discussion. Its really pointless ...

LOL

ok ... last one ... Melo vs. Barkley. Who do you pick first?

TPercy wrote:Why is this even a concern..?

who is concerned?

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:New Yorkers are Number One...

At turning true Knickslove into true Knicks disgust and coveting thy neighbor's power forward.

I have a couple of buddies that are huge sixers fans. My guess is if they could go back in time have Ewing over Chuck they would take Ewing.

and I am sure that has more to do with barkley being a nut job / loose canon. Not because ewing was a better player. That is a joke.

I would be scared to draft Dennis Rodman too but he may have been the best defender / rebounder of all time.

You are very wrong about that.

You think Philly fans were happy when barkley in year 2 averaged 25 ppg, 15.8 rebounds and 5.6 assists per game? Did pretty much the same in year 5.

Would you actually rather have ewing than barkley in the playoffs? Or would you just draft him first for defense? I am not sure what your position is.

I'm just amazed at you guys talking playoffs...Ewing is mostly the only offensive threat the Knicks had..Doubling Ewing in the playoffs was a must..Ewing was a bigger overall presence than Barkley who commanded double teams and his team's were more well regarded..Its not even close..

Ewing teams performed better in the playoffs..

what a cop out! Ok .....

Here are Chuck's stats in some big playoffs games:

1986 Round 1 - Game 5

19 points, 15 rebounds, 12 assists, 2 steals, 1 block on 8/12 FG, 3/3 FT and 4 turnovers

1993 Round 1 - Game 5

31 points, 12 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks on 9/23 FG, 12/14 FT and 2 turnovers

1993 WCF - Game 7

44 points, 24 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 block on 12/20 FG, 19/22 FT and 1 turnover

1994 Round 1 - Game 3

56 points, 14 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals, 1 block on 23/31 FG, 7/9 FT and 2 turnovers

1994 WCSF - Game 7 (played despite a quadriceps tear)

24 points, 15 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals on 9/19 FG, 4/5 FT and 2 turnovers

1995 Round 1 - Game 3 (played through another leg injury)

47 points, 12 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks on 16/26 FG, 11/13 FT and 4 turnovers

1995 WCSF - Game 6 (leg injury against Hakeem)

34 points, 14 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 1 block on 12/22 FG, 8/10 FT and 1 turnover

1995 WCSF - Game 7 (leg injury against Hakeem)

18 points, 23 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal on 7/16 FG, 4/5 FT and 7 turnovers

gunsnewing wrote:This is what happens when you look at numbers only and not results

ok ... so ewings playoff results were much better than barkleys? Mike G. was the man!

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:New Yorkers are Number One...

At turning true Knickslove into true Knicks disgust and coveting thy neighbor's power forward.

I have a couple of buddies that are huge sixers fans. My guess is if they could go back in time have Ewing over Chuck they would take Ewing.

and I am sure that has more to do with barkley being a nut job / loose canon. Not because ewing was a better player. That is a joke.

I would be scared to draft Dennis Rodman too but he may have been the best defender / rebounder of all time.

You are very wrong about that.

You think Philly fans were happy when barkley in year 2 averaged 25 ppg, 15.8 rebounds and 5.6 assists per game? Did pretty much the same in year 5.

Would you actually rather have ewing than barkley in the playoffs? Or would you just draft him first for defense? I am not sure what your position is.

I'm just amazed at you guys talking playoffs...Ewing is mostly the only offensive threat the Knicks had..Doubling Ewing in the playoffs was a must..Ewing was a bigger overall presence than Barkley who commanded double teams and his team's were more well regarded..Its not even close..

Ewing teams performed better in the playoffs..

what a cop out! Ok .....

Here are Chuck's stats in some big playoffs games:

1986 Round 1 - Game 5

19 points, 15 rebounds, 12 assists, 2 steals, 1 block on 8/12 FG, 3/3 FT and 4 turnovers

1993 Round 1 - Game 5

31 points, 12 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks on 9/23 FG, 12/14 FT and 2 turnovers

1993 WCF - Game 7

44 points, 24 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 block on 12/20 FG, 19/22 FT and 1 turnover

1994 Round 1 - Game 3

56 points, 14 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals, 1 block on 23/31 FG, 7/9 FT and 2 turnovers

1994 WCSF - Game 7 (played despite a quadriceps tear)

24 points, 15 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals on 9/19 FG, 4/5 FT and 2 turnovers

1995 Round 1 - Game 3 (played through another leg injury)

47 points, 12 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks on 16/26 FG, 11/13 FT and 4 turnovers

1995 WCSF - Game 6 (leg injury against Hakeem)

34 points, 14 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 1 block on 12/22 FG, 8/10 FT and 1 turnover

1995 WCSF - Game 7 (leg injury against Hakeem)

18 points, 23 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal on 7/16 FG, 4/5 FT and 7 turnovers

Hahahah..Those look like historic numbers for the playoffs that may even eclipse MJ performances..Does that mean he was better than MJ in the playoffs?

uh ... no. Aside for rebounding Jordan was obviously the better player. Curious how Barkley would have done on the bulls team instead of jordan though.

but I guess the white flag is out even though its way too late for it :-)

No but seriously, does he have better stats than MJ in the playoffs??..Probably so and what does it mean?..Nothing..

no. he doesn't. Don't know why you stay away from this site like the plague:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=barklch01&p2=jordami01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

anyway ... so hard to compare when barkley played on mostly bad teams. Chicago went pretty far without jordan and of course he was the best player of all time.

you almost never have apples to apples. All you can do is look at a player and see if they rose up to the occasion and did their part. Barkley always rose up in the playoffs no matter who he had on his team. His philly teams were mostly awful.

He won the MVP in 93 with a whopping 85% of the vote. That is phenomenal. People forget how injury prone KJ was that year.

Barkley was up there with shaq as a couple of the most efficient players of all time and that is with Barkley taking his silly threes.

He was so dominant in the playoffs that anyone who dares to put ewing in the same convo has just completely missed the boat.

A couple of you have said that ewing wins and its not close. That is just silly looking in every way.

mreinman wrote:oh ... how about this one:

Barkley 1993 WCF game 5:

43-point night, shooting 16-of-22 from the floor and a perfect 11-for-11 from the line. He also managed to pick up 15 rebounds and 10 assists in the Suns' 120-114 victory over the Sonics.

simple triple double with some other treats but ... please someone post games from ewing similar to these.

I'm sure Tim Duncan never posted numbers like that but.....