holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

holfresh wrote:

foosballnick wrote:Ah. And here it is. A thread for the guy who wanted Phil fired on Draft Night for picking KP. A thread from a guy who has an anti Phil agenda and has railed on PJ since he got here. Just seemingly furthering the agenda so he can point our who performs better than Phil's pick KP on a minute by minute basis. Sorry, but assigning a franchise player tag to Muday's superstardom or judging how good a player will be based on 3 or 4 Summer League games is pretty silly. Making an assessment comparison based on who starts in Game 1 of their rookie year is laughable. You are of course entitled to you opinion. Of course it is way too early to make an assessment like you have made...but that is par for the course.

Ok..for a second, let's forget the out defend Phil at all cost mode..What do you think of Mudiay's skill level and what he will be given what you have seen?

Mudiay definitely has mad handle and good vision. He has skills, that's why he was picked near the top of the draft. Becoming a franchise player is more than just skill level. Beyond superior skills, what makes a top player is often what's in his head, his motivation, drive, competitiveness, ability to quickly move on from mistakes, ability to tone out all the negative noise. There is just no way to know this about a 19 year old kid who played in China after 4 Summer league games.

If you listened to the commentators last night, not only is Denver handing him the keys..David Aldridge was asking, is Malone going to give him structure or just give him the ball to do his thing??..They have decided the team is his...But you are right, I'm shocked they have decided that already..

Mudiay is a good prospect. The probelm with Mudiay being picked by the Knick is fit. There aint no keys to be turned over in the triangle offense. Mudiay has a better chance of fulfilling his full potential in Denver. With that said, you have to admit, his poor outside shot, coupled with his poor freethrow shooting is alarming for a guard. Aint no guarantee that his broken shot will be fixed...See the Pearl Washington comparison you made..The jumper, among other things is what kept him from sticking in the NBA...

All players have areas they need to work on..We drafted a 7 footer who can't post and can't rebound..But we took a chance..Mudiay seems like an above IQ player and skilled we have lacked at the position since Clyde..We had no problem going all in on a longer shot player than Mudiay..

The old school thought is when you have two highly regarded prospects that are close, you usually go with the BIG prospect....I disagree that we haven't had a highly skilled, high IQ pg since Clyde. We had two on the same team in Mark and Rod Strickland...I'm still bothered that we traded Strickland all these years later....lol

Mudiay is a one one one, pick and roll type of point guard....How do you honestly think Mudiay would do in the Triangle offense?

He isn't just a specialized type player..He is 6'5" and is a basketball player, meaning all around game..What should be noted is that his shot is awful and yet he dominates the game passing the ball..

Phil just drafted a player that might not come into his own until Phil is long gone..

Dominates the game??? What games are you watching?
Date Opponent Result MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OFF DEF REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Jul 16 at ATL L 73-82 27 4-9 0-0 0-0 0 3 3 1 2 0 7 3 8

Not a dominating performance by any means, nor really any of his SL games

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

you are not happy with the KP pick?

Did you miss my barage of threads the day of the draft..
I'll summarize..I don't see the point of a 7 foot 3 pt jumper shooter who can't rebound..He doesn't have the strength to play the post at this level..

you can't see the big potential?

Obviously if you judge them as of today, there were a number of better options.

Let's look at this realistically..You have seen the wear and tear on Melo playing PF..LeBron talking about he doesn't want to play PF because it wears him down and he gets beaten up..Shaq used to complain about the beat down he experienced on the interior..

You want me to believe a guy who can barely remain standing after 20 mins of summer league basketball is now going to bulk up and play the post at the next level??..Ok spanky..

U almost have to be a thug to play interior ball in the NBA..U see Admunson in action??..This guy is soft as a marshmallow..

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:KP + Grant > Mudiay

He is how u know that's BS...Denver will be Mudiay's team day one..KP and Grant won't start..

Lets see how I can be grumpy about the Knicks and how much I hate Phil today... hmmm.... oh! I know! Lets say after 4 summer league games that Phil screwed up the draft, pump Denver's player and say ours wont be starters.

I liked Mudiay also, and as it was mentioned above based on the vastly limited info I had (and you had and HAVE holfresh as well) I would have taken Mudiay also. That being said I could not be happier with this draft. Could Turner or Mudiay end up better than our guys? Sure. Could our guys end up better than Turner and Mudiay? Absolutely.

Are the Knick picks playing poorly? Do they look outclassed? No.. opposite. So this certainly has the feel of another Phil sucks, I miss Isiah grumpy holfresh post. Am I wrong?

Instead of instinctly running to Phil's defense, let's just talk hoops and skilled players..You are right, what I saw of Mudiay was limited..I do however wish I had the Knicks billion dollar budget to get the info and spend time in China assessing this kids skill..I might be then be able to make a better informed decision..

But let's just talk basketball skills..Given what you have seen of Mudiay in Dummer League, who do you compare him to skill wise?

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

you are not happy with the KP pick?

Did you miss my barage of threads the day of the draft..
I'll summarize..I don't see the point of a 7 foot 3 pt jumper shooter who can't rebound..He doesn't have the strength to play the post at this level..

you can't see the big potential?

Obviously if you judge them as of today, there were a number of better options.

Let's look at this realistically..You have seen the wear and tear on Melo playing PF..LeBron talking about he doesn't want to play PF because it wears him down and he gets beaten up..Shaq used to complain about the beat down he experienced on the interior..

You want me to believe a guy who can barely remain standing after 20 mins of summer league basketball is now going to bulk up and play the post at the next level??..Ok spanky..

spanky?

U almost have to be a Thug to play interior basketball in the NBA..Have u seen Admunson in action??..It's a war..This guy is soft as a marshmallow..

3 rebounds a game..think about that for a second..

Soft? The kid never avoids contact and so far every game battles for rebounds and on defense. He did a good job on okafor. He just needs to get stronger and he will

It's not avoiding contact..it's being able to take contact and standing your ground..

can you honestly say you havent been even a little impressed by porzingis? For example you always feel people on here ridicule melo too much so why dont you take your own advice and give the kid a chance

I'm not ridiculing him..It's just summer league..I was just asked my opinion of him..I just said why I would not draft him..If Porzingis could play the interior at his length and stretch the floor at the same time then we are talking..It we have a 7 footer shooting threes like the Hawks, how does that move the needle for us if he doesn't rebound or post?

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:KP + Grant > Mudiay

He is how u know that's BS...Denver will be Mudiay's team day one..KP and Grant won't start..

Lets see how I can be grumpy about the Knicks and how much I hate Phil today... hmmm.... oh! I know! Lets say after 4 summer league games that Phil screwed up the draft, pump Denver's player and say ours wont be starters.

I liked Mudiay also, and as it was mentioned above based on the vastly limited info I had (and you had and HAVE holfresh as well) I would have taken Mudiay also. That being said I could not be happier with this draft. Could Turner or Mudiay end up better than our guys? Sure. Could our guys end up better than Turner and Mudiay? Absolutely.

Are the Knick picks playing poorly? Do they look outclassed? No.. opposite. So this certainly has the feel of another Phil sucks, I miss Isiah grumpy holfresh post. Am I wrong?

Instead of instinctly running to Phil's defense, let's just talk hoops and skilled players..You are right, what I saw of Mudiay was limited..I do however wish I had the Knicks billion dollar budget to get the info and spend time in China assessing this kids skill..I might be then be able to make a better informed decision..

But let's just talk basketball skills..Given what you have seen of Mudiay in Dummer League, who do you compare him to skill wise?

so far he looks great. Nothing wrong with that. I also wouldnt trade him for KP. Not even would I entertain it. Knicks made the right pick. I liked the possibility of Mudiay and thought that was a safe pick and prefered him over Winslow, WCS, Frank or most anyone else at that spot.

I don't think that there is a GM in the league who would trade KP for Mudiay today.

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

you are not happy with the KP pick?

Did you miss my barage of threads the day of the draft..
I'll summarize..I don't see the point of a 7 foot 3 pt jumper shooter who can't rebound..He doesn't have the strength to play the post at this level..

you can't see the big potential?

Obviously if you judge them as of today, there were a number of better options.

Let's look at this realistically..You have seen the wear and tear on Melo playing PF..LeBron talking about he doesn't want to play PF because it wears him down and he gets beaten up..Shaq used to complain about the beat down he experienced on the interior..

You want me to believe a guy who can barely remain standing after 20 mins of summer league basketball is now going to bulk up and play the post at the next level??..Ok spanky..

spanky?

U almost have to be a Thug to play interior basketball in the NBA..Have u seen Admunson in action??..It's a war..This guy is soft as a marshmallow..

3 rebounds a game..think about that for a second..

Soft? The kid never avoids contact and so far every game battles for rebounds and on defense. He did a good job on okafor. He just needs to get stronger and he will

It's not avoiding contact..it's being able to take contact and standing your ground..

can you honestly say you havent been even a little impressed by porzingis? For example you always feel people on here ridicule melo too much so why dont you take your own advice and give the kid a chance

I'm not ridiculing him..It's just summer league..I was just asked my opinion of him..I just said why I would not draft him..If Porzingis could play the interior at his length and stretch the floor at the same time then we are talking..It we have a 7 footer shooting threes like the Hawks, how does that move the needle for us if he doesn't rebound or post?

were you expecting him to be able to post and rebound in SL at his current weight? He is weak right now and he needs to get stronger. He is 19 and we all think that he will get stronger.

Please find me just one article or review of his play that mentioned anything about him being soft. If anything, most were surprised how not soft he was.

I'm actually stunned at how frail he is..I have seen guards toss him around like a rag doll..How strong do you realistically think he is going to get..I'm sorry it's only summer league and he has a long career ahead of him..3 rebounds a game won't cut it..

You can't get too high or too low off anyone's performance on this.

Mudiay plays for Denver and Porzingis plays for the Knicks, nothing you, I, or Melo can do about this.

Be happy that the Knicks are getting what alot of analysts are now saying could be the steal of the draft.

blkexec wrote:

holfresh wrote:

blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

Next time I'll re-title the thread..I don't see Mudiay light up summer league...

The title of your thread states: "Mudiay was the pick to be made at 4"

That doesn't sound like a thread about a player lighting up SL. It sounds like that 12 yr old we saw crying after KP was picked. How is mudiay an option right now? This isn't a discussion about other options.....This is a discussion about OPP. "Other Peoples Property"

I'm one of the biggest Mudiay fans here....But it's time to get over it and move on. Wait until he becomes a free agent.....The draft is over! We don't have Towns, Mudiay, WCS, Russell.....We drafted KP and Grant. Now you have two options. Cry the entire season about why Phil didn't pick Mudiay? And while you are at it, replace Mudiays name with all the other draft picks we didn't select in NBA history. The other option is look at the good in the picks we have. You will have less grey hairs with option 2.....

Does it offend you if I have a difference of opinion.Why would u want a forum with homogenous thinking..This place was set up for questions and discussions..It is my right to question whether or not we made the correct choice at the 4th pick..Trying to shame me into group think it a little weak..Most of us have never seen Mudiay play prior to Summer League..Acting like he isn't balling and not examining him as an option for this team is juvenile..

holfresh wrote:

blkexec wrote:

holfresh wrote:

blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

Next time I'll re-title the thread..I don't see Mudiay light up summer league...

The title of your thread states: "Mudiay was the pick to be made at 4"

That doesn't sound like a thread about a player lighting up SL. It sounds like that 12 yr old we saw crying after KP was picked. How is mudiay an option right now? This isn't a discussion about other options.....This is a discussion about OPP. "Other Peoples Property"

I'm one of the biggest Mudiay fans here....But it's time to get over it and move on. Wait until he becomes a free agent.....The draft is over! We don't have Towns, Mudiay, WCS, Russell.....We drafted KP and Grant. Now you have two options. Cry the entire season about why Phil didn't pick Mudiay? And while you are at it, replace Mudiays name with all the other draft picks we didn't select in NBA history. The other option is look at the good in the picks we have. You will have less grey hairs with option 2.....

Does it offend you if I have a difference of opinion.Why would u want a forum with homogenous thinking..This place was set up for questions and discussions..It is my right to question whether or not we made the correct choice at the 4th pick..Trying to shame me into group think it a little weak..Most of us have never seen Mudiay play prior to Summer League..Acting like he isn't balling and not examining him as an option for this team is juvenile..

It's an open forum.....I will never and can never control what you say, think or write. Freedom of speech. I wasn't trying to come across that way. But I'm a little confused on how Mudiay is an option right now. He was an option...And would've been a good talent to have, but not sure if he WAS a great option for the triangle.

But it's like buying a BMW (which I just bought)....Then a few days later, my neighbor bought a different BMW that looks better and it was within my financial range. There's nothing I can do about it now. Do I stare in the window at him and his car.....Or check that off as a mental note and move on until the next opportunity to buy another car. And by then, I might not even want a BMW anymore.

So again, you can and I'm sure you will say and write about anything you want. I just don't see how Mudiay RIGHT NOW....is an option for us. And I don't see how you or anybody can say based on a few summer league games watching Mudiay in a completely different system, under a different coach with different players, would've been any better than Grant.

Thats my opinion, just like you have yours.

holfresh wrote:

blkexec wrote:

holfresh wrote:

blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

Next time I'll re-title the thread..I don't see Mudiay light up summer league...

The title of your thread states: "Mudiay was the pick to be made at 4"

That doesn't sound like a thread about a player lighting up SL. It sounds like that 12 yr old we saw crying after KP was picked. How is mudiay an option right now? This isn't a discussion about other options.....This is a discussion about OPP. "Other Peoples Property"

I'm one of the biggest Mudiay fans here....But it's time to get over it and move on. Wait until he becomes a free agent.....The draft is over! We don't have Towns, Mudiay, WCS, Russell.....We drafted KP and Grant. Now you have two options. Cry the entire season about why Phil didn't pick Mudiay? And while you are at it, replace Mudiays name with all the other draft picks we didn't select in NBA history. The other option is look at the good in the picks we have. You will have less grey hairs with option 2.....

Does it offend you if I have a difference of opinion.Why would u want a forum with homogenous thinking..This place was set up for questions and discussions..It is my right to question whether or not we made the correct choice at the 4th pick..Trying to shame me into group think it a little weak..Most of us have never seen Mudiay play prior to Summer League..Acting like he isn't balling and not examining him as an option for this team is juvenile..

How can something offend me, if we have the same opinion? We both like Mudiay and we both wish Phil picked Mudiay #4. Sounds like we both agree, so I don't understand your frustration. Where we disagree is that I refuse to drool over someone eleses property, and rather improve what we have. Compare KP to the greats (Dirk / Gasol) that has similar weaknesses and strengths, and picture KP as the next star. Same with Grant, who I like and thought he was the 2nd best PG in the draft. Only by a slight margin, under Mudiay.

blkexec wrote:

holfresh wrote:

blkexec wrote:

holfresh wrote:

blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

Next time I'll re-title the thread..I don't see Mudiay light up summer league...

The title of your thread states: "Mudiay was the pick to be made at 4"

That doesn't sound like a thread about a player lighting up SL. It sounds like that 12 yr old we saw crying after KP was picked. How is mudiay an option right now? This isn't a discussion about other options.....This is a discussion about OPP. "Other Peoples Property"

I'm one of the biggest Mudiay fans here....But it's time to get over it and move on. Wait until he becomes a free agent.....The draft is over! We don't have Towns, Mudiay, WCS, Russell.....We drafted KP and Grant. Now you have two options. Cry the entire season about why Phil didn't pick Mudiay? And while you are at it, replace Mudiays name with all the other draft picks we didn't select in NBA history. The other option is look at the good in the picks we have. You will have less grey hairs with option 2.....

Does it offend you if I have a difference of opinion.Why would u want a forum with homogenous thinking..This place was set up for questions and discussions..It is my right to question whether or not we made the correct choice at the 4th pick..Trying to shame me into group think it a little weak..Most of us have never seen Mudiay play prior to Summer League..Acting like he isn't balling and not examining him as an option for this team is juvenile..

It's an open forum.....I will never and can never control what you say, think or write. Freedom of speech. I wasn't trying to come across that way. But I'm a little confused on how Mudiay is an option right now. He was an option...And would've been a good talent to have, but not sure if he WAS a great option for the triangle.

But it's like buying a BMW (which I just bought)....Then a few days later, my neighbor bought a different BMW that looks better and it was within my financial range. There's nothing I can do about it now. Do I stare in the window at him and his car.....Or check that off as a mental note and move on until the next opportunity to buy another car. And by then, I might not even want a BMW anymore.

So again, you can and I'm sure you will say and write about anything you want. I just don't see how Mudiay RIGHT NOW....is an option for us. And I don't see how you or anybody can say based on a few summer league games watching Mudiay in a completely different system, under a different coach with different players, would've been any better than Grant.

Thats my opinion, just like you have yours.

Is it time to go home yet? Ug... 4:30, where are you?