BRIGGS wrote:

s3231 wrote:Exactly...we're not the Pistons coming off an NBA title and deciding between Melo/Darko/Wade...

We need talent first and foremost and at #4, the mindset has to be taking the player you think will be the best. If Phil really thinks WCS is that guy, fine....but to draft him on need makes no sense for our current situation.

I guarantee we will take Stein OVER 1 of Okafor Porzingis Kaminsky Russell or even all of them. Danilo Fuzaro is BETTER than Stein.

What is your obsession lately with declarations of prophecy? Why can't you just say "I'm worried we might take x", why the BS of a guarantee that you can't actually guarantee because you don't actually know?

LivingLegend wrote:Kings were said to be craving WCS at 6 so that Cousins can do less dirty work (sounds like Melo Jr).

That said it's possible the Knicks could leverage kings interest in Willie, pick up some assets and still get a Mudiay, Porzingis or Winslow.

I like this. They are in dire need of a C aren't they?

TripleThreat wrote:
The problem is you are pushing a "consider the cap" argument without any kind of actual team fit context.

Monroe is "attainable" for very specific reasons. Most NBA teams didn't even bother to try to trade for him for very specific reasons. Lots of team who can use actual help in the pivot will gladly walk past Monroe for very specific reasons.

The "Let's spend the money because we have it and who knows who might come later" is EXACTLY the kind of thinking that got Amare Stoudamire here in the first place.

At max dollars, Monroe brings more questions than answers to any new team ( hence the "very specific reasons") In order to neutralize those questions, the Knicks will need to do two things, add an actual center who can play defense, which will burn out what's left of their cap space or eat their only lottery pick immediately, AND push Melo onto the wing position.

There is no "having fun" while watching Monroe and Melo get torched on defense each and every single night. And when I mean torched, I mean epic disaster movie kind of torched. There are joints in some higher schoolers backpack after prom that won't get lit up as much as Greg Monroe anywhere on the court.

And trading a complicated fit player at max dollars, even a pivot, who is one dimensional, that's not going to be as easy as you make it sound. Monroe's defensive limitations profile him out as a power forward and frankly other teams can find better utility for the modern game ( a cheaper Stretch 4 from the dregs of free agency or back end of the draft) for that position.

Ask yourself this, what is the "zero downside" in the Knicks continuing to overpay no defense power forwards onto their roster? Not like they haven't ridden that horse recently, right?

Monroe is a good player... probably underrated at this point...

-his defensive rebounding is in the top 20 in the league and is ahead of anthony davis.. all that was playing heavy minutes with andre drummond who's 3rd in the league...
-his assist rate is near the top for PF/C.. he's roughly on par with pau gasol.. having your big men be able to pass is a big deal in the triangle...
-he gets to the line a good deal... 0.394 FTr which is roughly 25% better than carmelo anthony...

He he has a career PER of 19.7 and avg WS of 6.4 in his 5 seasons in the league and he's currently 25...

normally i would be worried about fit and the money and those are the reasons why i was i originally against signing monroe.. but he's a good player and there aren't better options looking out the next couple of seasons... millsap's gonna be 30.. brook lopez? robin? not as good and injury prone... enes kanter? um no...

good PF's are notoriously hard to build around... chris webber, barkley, garnett, bosh all had to switch team to find good team success and a lot of the others took a long time to find good success with their own teams... monroe isn't quite in their class but he's just below it.. it's a worth a shot to see if the triangle is what turns him into a good to great player...

if we're not spending it on monroe who else are we spending it on that doesn't have a clean injury history, is young and this talented? this is not an amare signing.. monroe's younger, hasn't had amare's injury history and is for much less money...

if there's a good specific reason to roll over the cap space into next year then i'd be all for it... but there is none unless you think we have a shot at durant or horford.. and we'd have enough to offer them a max anyway.. and if we don't spend it within these next two offseasons then what? it's nice to say we'd just wait and lose and pick up draft picks but we don't have that luxury...

it's a 4yr 15.5mm deal.. this is not a cap crippling contract given the financial landscape next year and given the alternatives and the likelihood monroe can retain his value throughout the life of his contract... it's literally an all upside deal...

FistOfOakley wrote:
Monroe is a good player... probably underrated at this point...

-his defensive rebounding is in the top 20 in the league and is ahead of anthony davis.. all that was playing heavy minutes with andre drummond who's 3rd in the league...
-his assist rate is near the top for PF/C.. he's roughly on par with pau gasol.. having your big men be able to pass is a big deal in the triangle...
-he gets to the line a good deal... 0.394 FTr which is roughly 25% better than carmelo anthony...

He he has a career PER of 19.7 and avg WS of 6.4 in his 5 seasons in the league and he's currently 25...

normally i would be worried about fit and the money and those are the reasons why i was i originally against signing monroe.. but he's a good player and there aren't better options looking out the next couple of seasons... millsap's gonna be 30.. brook lopez? robin? not as good and injury prone... enes kanter? um no...

good PF's are notoriously hard to build around... chris webber, barkley, garnett, bosh all had to switch team to find good team success and a lot of the others had took a long time find good success with their own teams... monroe isn't quite in their class but he's just below it.. it's a worth a shot to see if the triangle is what turns him into a good to great player...

if we're not spending it on monroe who else are we spending it on that doesn't have a clean injury history, is young and this talented? this is not an amare signing.. monroe's younger, hasn't had amare's injury history and is for much less money...

if there's a good specific reason to roll over the cap space into next year then i'd be all for it... but there is none unless you think we have a shot at durant or horford.. and we'd have enough to offer them a max anyway.. and if we don't spend it within these next two offseasons then what? it's nice to say we'd just wait and lose and pick up draft picks but we don't have that luxury...

it's a 4yr 15.5mm deal.. this is not a cap crippling contract given the financial landscape next year and given the alternatives and the likelihood monroe can retain his value throughout the life of his contract... it's literally an all upside deal...

this is a very fair and good post

s3231 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

s3231 wrote:Exactly...we're not the Pistons coming off an NBA title and deciding between Melo/Darko/Wade...

We need talent first and foremost and at #4, the mindset has to be taking the player you think will be the best. If Phil really thinks WCS is that guy, fine....but to draft him on need makes no sense for our current situation.

I guarantee we will take Stein OVER 1 of Okafor Porzingis Kaminsky Russell or even all of them. Danilo Fuzaro is BETTER than Stein.

If we draft WCS over Okafor/Russell, I will walk onto the draft stage and steal the Knicks draft cap before Silver can even give it to Stein...

I don't dislike WCS but taking him over Okafor/Russell would be a huge reach....either way, chances are neither of those 2 guys will likely be available when we pick. Stein over Kaminsky/Porzingis.....I could see Phil doing even though I personally wouldn't want to.

Picks 2-4 are fluid at this time, and I could even see a trade where Saunders and Kupchak trade 1s, with Saunders getting Porzingis,and LAs 27th and 34th Picks, and even a future one, and LA taking Towns.

codeunknown wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:There's actually a center that might be a free agent if he opts out that i think would fit the triangle perfectly but he has the dreaded injury problems and that's B.Lopez. I would have him in the top of my free agent list if it wasn't for his injury problems and i still wouldn't hate it if we got him.

Here's a good plan if porzingis is available take him and let him develop. If okafor falls to 4 take him if none of these guys are there see if we can trade down for Kaminski and additional picks. Don't like Stein limited player who loses focus.3 years in school biggest game of his career and he doesn't show up

When you have a 15 man roster, all bringing a separate skill - it's good, except you can't play all 5 at once. Thats why minutes are top heavy - players that affect the net value are paramount and niche players are more valuable in select combinations. The combo of Stein and Monroe lack adequate shooting and are unimpressive from a rebounding standpoint. Defensively, sets can be devised to exploit Monroe. This is a team easy to gameplan for and beat.

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

jbeachboy wrote:so you recommend drafting stein?

There are others avenues Id rather travel. One thing is for sure NOT Stein AND Monroe--wont work. Didnt work with Drummond who is WAY better than Stein.

Who says that we're gonna draft WCS and sign G.Monroe?? People on a message board?? What does it matter what's said on here?? Let me ask you this though Briggs and your answer will really say a lot about you but if Phil Jackson and his team decide to do this which would mean they obviously think it would work would you think that they're wrong and don't know what would work in his own system and that you do know what would work in Phil Jackson's system which would mean you know more than Phil Jackson and his team?? Can't wait to hear your answer to this, if you actually answer this with a real and clear answer or if you answer it at all.

The answer is this if they take Stein at 4 and Monroe in free agency they will WRECK the team up for 5 years and we will be jealous of who we missed out on in the draft

I kind of figured you wouldn't give a clear answer to this. You talk on here like you're smarter than a NBA GM but can't answer a question clearly.

C-- I don't think Stein is the bpa at 4. Maybe 10 if u draft for need it NEVER works EVER. We've done it twice already Frye and hill

So no team has EVER drafted for need and it has worked out for them?? NEVER EVER?? Hahahahahaha

Ok tell me a team which picked a role player at 4 Stein is a role player. When melos knee explodes and he's off to being the king digital investor or whatever that means and were left with Stein and Monroe u see the pistons record we will be worse well be back to 18 wins

Hahahahaha you're too much man. You went from saying if a team drafts for need it NEVER EVER works to now changing it and asking me to find a ROLE PLAYER (which you never said Before) that a team drafted for need that worked. Way to change it up man. LOL Dang it you say some dumb stuff.

BRIGGS wrote:

s3231 wrote:Exactly...we're not the Pistons coming off an NBA title and deciding between Melo/Darko/Wade...

We need talent first and foremost and at #4, the mindset has to be taking the player you think will be the best. If Phil really thinks WCS is that guy, fine....but to draft him on need makes no sense for our current situation.

I guarantee we will take Stein OVER 1 of Okafor Porzingis Kaminsky Russell or even all of them. Danilo Fuzaro is BETTER than Stein.

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

jbeachboy wrote:so you recommend drafting stein?

There are others avenues Id rather travel. One thing is for sure NOT Stein AND Monroe--wont work. Didnt work with Drummond who is WAY better than Stein.

Who says that we're gonna draft WCS and sign G.Monroe?? People on a message board?? What does it matter what's said on here?? Let me ask you this though Briggs and your answer will really say a lot about you but if Phil Jackson and his team decide to do this which would mean they obviously think it would work would you think that they're wrong and don't know what would work in his own system and that you do know what would work in Phil Jackson's system which would mean you know more than Phil Jackson and his team?? Can't wait to hear your answer to this, if you actually answer this with a real and clear answer or if you answer it at all.

The answer is this if they take Stein at 4 and Monroe in free agency they will WRECK the team up for 5 years and we will be jealous of who we missed out on in the draft

I kind of figured you wouldn't give a clear answer to this. You talk on here like you're smarter than a NBA GM but can't answer a question clearly.

C-- I don't think Stein is the bpa at 4. Maybe 10 if u draft for need it NEVER works EVER. We've done it twice already Frye and hill

So no team has EVER drafted for need and it has worked out for them?? NEVER EVER?? Hahahahahaha

Ok tell me a team which picked a role player at 4 Stein is a role player. When melos knee explodes and he's off to being the king digital investor or whatever that means and were left with Stein and Monroe u see the pistons record we will be worse well be back to 18 wins

Hahahahaha you're too much man. You went from saying if a team drafts for need it NEVER EVER works to now changing it and asking me to find a ROLE PLAYER (which you never said Before) that a team drafted for need that worked. Way to change it up man. LOL Dang it you say some dumb stuff.

Hey man we can't all be smart we need some dumb people like me for balance

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

jbeachboy wrote:so you recommend drafting stein?

There are others avenues Id rather travel. One thing is for sure NOT Stein AND Monroe--wont work. Didnt work with Drummond who is WAY better than Stein.

Who says that we're gonna draft WCS and sign G.Monroe?? People on a message board?? What does it matter what's said on here?? Let me ask you this though Briggs and your answer will really say a lot about you but if Phil Jackson and his team decide to do this which would mean they obviously think it would work would you think that they're wrong and don't know what would work in his own system and that you do know what would work in Phil Jackson's system which would mean you know more than Phil Jackson and his team?? Can't wait to hear your answer to this, if you actually answer this with a real and clear answer or if you answer it at all.

The answer is this if they take Stein at 4 and Monroe in free agency they will WRECK the team up for 5 years and we will be jealous of who we missed out on in the draft

I kind of figured you wouldn't give a clear answer to this. You talk on here like you're smarter than a NBA GM but can't answer a question clearly.

C-- I don't think Stein is the bpa at 4. Maybe 10 if u draft for need it NEVER works EVER. We've done it twice already Frye and hill

So no team has EVER drafted for need and it has worked out for them?? NEVER EVER?? Hahahahahaha

Ok tell me a team which picked a role player at 4 Stein is a role player. When melos knee explodes and he's off to being the king digital investor or whatever that means and were left with Stein and Monroe u see the pistons record we will be worse well be back to 18 wins

Hahahahaha you're too much man. You went from saying if a team drafts for need it NEVER EVER works to now changing it and asking me to find a ROLE PLAYER (which you never said Before) that a team drafted for need that worked. Way to change it up man. LOL Dang it you say some dumb stuff.

Usually when you draft for need, you're drafting a role player (who fills that need). I don't think he changed it. He just worded the same idea differently.