Uptown wrote:After watching his workout, Steins shooting form looks pure. No hitch, hesitation or awkwardness in his shot. With his athleticism, size, agility and the possibility that he can hit the pick and pop shot, its almost a no brainer that you have to take this guy at 4. I've been going back and forth between Stein and Winslow at 4, but its stating to look more and more like Stein is a guy you just can't pass up. He can impact the game more than Winslow and the upside appears to be bigger....

I agree with everything - except I think Winslow's upside may be slightly higher... he could be a lot more of a playmaker... though I can't tell if he's a tweener between SF and SG.

But, yeah, I am torn between Stein and Winslow. I wish we could have them both.

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Uptown wrote:After watching his workout, Steins shooting form looks pure. No hitch, hesitation or awkwardness in his shot. With his athleticism, size, agility and the possibility that he can hit the pick and pop shot, its almost a no brainer that you have to take this guy at 4. I've been going back and forth between Stein and Winslow at 4, but its stating to look more and more like Stein is a guy you just can't pass up. He can impact the game more than Winslow and the upside appears to be bigger....

I agree with everything - except I think Winslow's upside may be slightly higher... he could be a lot more of a playmaker... though I can't tell if he's a tweener between SF and SG.

But, yeah, I am torn between Stein and Winslow. I wish we could have them both.

I like Winslows potential as well...he is one of the elite two-way players in the draft. Love the way the kid can finish at the rim with contact and the intangibles he brings to the table. But, if Stein shows any type of offensive potential, its very hard to pass up a 7'1 player who can hit the pick and pop shot, guard the rim and guard a guard....literally!

I can make a case for all three, on why they would be important for us. Mudiay should be in that discussion.

But on the flip side, it might be a blessing in disguise that we are picking #4. Stein has the potential to be a real steal in this draft, if he stays in the gym....and improves his game. He kinda has KG's form as a shooter. KG developed his jumper as he matured, and became a reliable mid range jumpber. Picking 4th also gives us more cap relief and less pressure to pick based on a mock draft, which is the case in picks 1-3.....

BRIGGS wrote:here are some facts from Willie Stein

When Kentucky got to SEC play to the finals 18 SEC 6 Tourney games here it is in 24 games a a junior

He was afforded 30 minutes a night on avg

In those 24 games Stein had 10 or more rebounds 4 times

In those 24 games Stein 1 double double

In those 24 games Stein had a total of 6 double digit scoring games

In those 24 games Stein had 6 points or less 9 times

And lets step up to better teams

In the Tourney Willie Stein averaged 6.2 points 6.2 rebounds 2.3 blocks 1 assists shot 41% from the field and really Kentucky shouldve been out against Notre Dame and in his last two games vs ND and Wisconsin did not even ATTEMPT a FT in 66 minutes of play.

In his two biggest games as an upperclassmen

His stat line

33 minutes 4 points 4.5 rebounds 2 blocks

BRIGGS, have you now changed your opinion about WCS????

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Here's his workout video (same series as the Towns and Russell one:

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Willie-Cauley-Stein-Workout-Video-and-Interview-5045

If we drafted him, would you go all out for Love/Aldridge or move Melo to PF, and just target Carroll, and keep the space to either absorb a contract for pick, keep the space for next year or fill in the roster with Danny green and Beverley?

WCS is he is very economical as he fills an expensive position cheaply. He's more of a move that may pay off in next years free agency, rather than this season. I wouldn't sign Greg Monroe if we picked him.

The case for Stein is that he is an athletic C and we dont have 1. Youre right he would fill out the position on the cheap. But hes going to need time and I think he struggles mentally in the triangle. Just from watching him he seems very uncertain on offense. It could be a case of bad coaching with Kentucky and a roster that had too much volume on it.

Im really starting to think that. WCS has the feel of a player who comes into the league and people are like where did THAT come from? We never saw that. But Im the first to admit I flop on him. Im just trying to have an open mind.

I've never seen Tyson shoot jumpers as smoothly or as comfortably as Stein did in those videos, or even honestly in games (meaning, I've seen Stein look that comfortable in game situations shooting a few times, too, I think the jumper is a weapon he will have). Stein is a decent passer, too, he just wasn't asked to do it often. But watching those Lyles highlight tapes - Stein is often setting him up, hitting him on cuts to the paint with a good pass.

I keep worrying that passing on Winslow is a major mistake though. That kid just seems like he's got his head screwed on 100% right, a true warrior - which is one thing I can't honestly say I'm as sure of with Stein.

yea.. this is what keeps me waffling. Not so much how I feel about WCS, but rather dismay with not picking the BPA. When I first started watching Duke I thought JW was mostly just eating up OK4s scraps, and often he was. But when OK4 got hurt, was less effective or in foul trouble JW was suddenly the best player in CBB. He truly imposed his will, something I value greatly

crzymdups wrote:

Uptown wrote:After watching his workout, Steins shooting form looks pure. No hitch, hesitation or awkwardness in his shot. With his athleticism, size, agility and the possibility that he can hit the pick and pop shot, its almost a no brainer that you have to take this guy at 4. I've been going back and forth between Stein and Winslow at 4, but its stating to look more and more like Stein is a guy you just can't pass up. He can impact the game more than Winslow and the upside appears to be bigger....

I agree with everything - except I think Winslow's upside may be slightly higher... he could be a lot more of a playmaker... though I can't tell if he's a tweener between SF and SG.

But, yeah, I am torn between Stein and Winslow. I wish we could have them both.

They both will be great players, but we have so many freaking needs and picking WCS would help us on many front: shot blocking, team defense, a pure 7' who can pass the ball and covers a lot of ground, one who plays above the rim. WCS is New York dude; he has the DNA of what NY is all about.

When your money man (Carmelo) is a passive dude, and we all know that we will soon add Monroe who is also a passive PF, we need a beast like WCS to bring some excitement to this team.

newyorker4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Here's his workout video (same series as the Towns and Russell one:

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Willie-Cauley-Stein-Workout-Video-and-Interview-5045

If we drafted him, would you go all out for Love/Aldridge or move Melo to PF, and just target Carroll, and keep the space to either absorb a contract for pick, keep the space for next year or fill in the roster with Danny green and Beverley?

WCS is he is very economical as he fills an expensive position cheaply. He's more of a move that may pay off in next years free agency, rather than this season. I wouldn't sign Greg Monroe if we picked him.

The case for Stein is that he is an athletic C and we dont have 1. Youre right he would fill out the position on the cheap. But hes going to need time and I think he struggles mentally in the triangle. Just from watching him he seems very uncertain on offense. It could be a case of bad coaching with Kentucky and a roster that had too much volume on it.

Im really starting to think that. WCS has the feel of a player who comes into the league and people are like where did THAT come from? We never saw that. But Im the first to admit I flop on him. Im just trying to have an open mind.

I've never seen Tyson shoot jumpers as smoothly or as comfortably as Stein did in those videos, or even honestly in games (meaning, I've seen Stein look that comfortable in game situations shooting a few times, too, I think the jumper is a weapon he will have). Stein is a decent passer, too, he just wasn't asked to do it often. But watching those Lyles highlight tapes - Stein is often setting him up, hitting him on cuts to the paint with a good pass.

I keep worrying that passing on Winslow is a major mistake though. That kid just seems like he's got his head screwed on 100% right, a true warrior - which is one thing I can't honestly say I'm as sure of with Stein.

yea.. this is what keeps me waffling. Not so much how I feel about WCS, but rather dismay with not picking the BPA. When I first started watching Duke I thought JW was mostly just eating up OK4s scraps, and often he was. But when OK4 got hurt, was less effective or in foul trouble JW was suddenly the best player in CBB. He truly imposed his will, something I value greatly

I think we need to understand that no matter who we pick we'll be missing out on other players that bring other parts to the team. If we draft WCS we'll miss out on what Mudiay brings as a PG and what Winslow brings as a 2/3 combo with great defense and if we draft Mudiay we'll miss out on having a big man in either WCS that brings defense or a big man like Porzingis that brings his shot blocking or his outside shooting and so on so we need to realize that we can't get everything we need with one pick and hope that Phil and his team have a plan set about who they can get in free agency that will make up for what we'll miss out on with who we draft.

Minnesota like Porzinigs a lot. Forget Karl Towns --hes not coming here. But for pick #4 if we could get Lavine + Muhhamed or Dieng picks 31 and 35--that would fill many more holes than pick 4 by himself.

Knicks1969 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Uptown wrote:After watching his workout, Steins shooting form looks pure. No hitch, hesitation or awkwardness in his shot. With his athleticism, size, agility and the possibility that he can hit the pick and pop shot, its almost a no brainer that you have to take this guy at 4. I've been going back and forth between Stein and Winslow at 4, but its stating to look more and more like Stein is a guy you just can't pass up. He can impact the game more than Winslow and the upside appears to be bigger....

I agree with everything - except I think Winslow's upside may be slightly higher... he could be a lot more of a playmaker... though I can't tell if he's a tweener between SF and SG.

But, yeah, I am torn between Stein and Winslow. I wish we could have them both.

They both will be great players, but we have so many freaking needs and picking WCS would help us on many front: shot blocking, team defense, a pure 7' who can pass the ball and covers a lot of ground, one who plays above the rim. WCS is New York dude; he has the DNA of what NY is all about.

When your money man (Carmelo) is a passive dude, and we all know that we will soon add Monroe who is also a passive PF, we need a beast like WCS to bring some excitement to this team.

Have you ever seen one full game with Willie Stein in it? I doubt it if you are saying Willie Stein is not passive. Go back and watch his last game again and watch how he is pushed around by a guy 7 inches shorter all game.

Also notice that Towns and Kaminsky battle for position on almost every play.