Moonangie wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:This team is horrific in ever phase of the game, at every position. i mean he doesn't matter who he picks. We need a defensive big, a offensive big, a pg, a rebounder, a slasher, some shooters. you name it we need it

We all know what the current state of the team is. This is after all a rebuild. What's the point of restating the obvious except to just be needlessly negative while you still can?

I would think with so little time left to this season that you would shift from Biotch Mode to looking at the options for the future. The point is whoever he picks in the draft could greatly impact who we go after in Free Agency. What if he does trade down for another pick? There's an awful lot of scenarios to discuss rather than to restate how bad the team is at this point.

1248 has nothing else to offer, so he regurgitates the same tired old schtick. BORING!

Really, what am I saying thats not plain as day. some of you just seem so naive like dumb blonde with pony tails.

All I'm saying is PHIL needs to make some power moves before i fully believe in him. I wasted over $500 between league pass and the couple of games i attended in DC and NY this season, and a I'm truly a pissed off knick fan, and i know quite few other fans that feel the same way... yes i'm excited about the possibilities, but i only go by what i know, and I know phil assembled a very bad team and it wasn't by accident.

Sorry to hear you spent money on the Knicks this season. That partly explains why you're pissed. I stopped watching my team before the AS break and started to watch DC.

As for Phil's moves, he should be judged by what he does next. His moves this year were geared toward our rebuild (i.e., dumping bad deals, getting rid of malcontents, having Melo shut down, and tanking!) and he did a terrific job (IMO) getting us ready for this draft. Sometimes it takes pain to get where you need to go. The Knicks have been utterly unwilling in the past 15+ years to endure that pain, in part because of the feckless "leaders" Dolan installed under his thumb.

Jax is the one entity with whom Dolan could not meddle, and we will hopefully bear the fruit of that planting in the next few years. As a life-long Knicks fan, I am more excited about the team than I have been since 1994.

And I am ALL IN on the yoot movement, including a willingness to trade our best player (Melo) if we get back more lotto picks in this draft. But I can work with Melo moving forward, too. Just think he'll be past his prime when we're ready to contend.

IDK if I can just look at a season like this and blow it off like it was for a purpose. He didn't even do a good job at tanking because he lost assets in the process, fisher gain no confidence as a head coach, the youngsters still look like 2014 training camp.

If we had a coach like JVG I would be much more optimistic. But i have been watching basketball for over 30 yrs, the last 15 i have been so in depth, and i know from watching what goes on around the league that bad coaches need super talented teams.

Fisher doesn't have the luxury of having Labron, cp3, KD, MJ, Kobe, shaq , pipen or any of those super high IQ type players that makes a coach look like a genius. I could be wrong, but history doesn't lie.

when fisher said yesterday that he believes talented players could fit in any system (that explains why he rotates 15 guys a night, and gives no one a true role), and phil contradicts him by saying he's not looking for the most talented, but who fits(which make perfect sense) because he always had players who fit like a glove.

This just kills me with his(fisher) thought process, because JR SMITH is a very talented player that did not fit the system, Gasol looked like he was headed for retirement under MDA's system, look at them now (just to name a few).

Finestrg wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Hmm I think that Phil should NOT have answered that question about the pick. He shouldve said we have our thoughts on players that have evolved over a long period of time and we feel great that we will improve the team in a major way at the draft.

Instead he straight says yes I know who I would pick and goes on to describe Willie Stein as close to the line that you can without being fined. The clincher to me was how confidant he was --how can you be confidant without the pick? We only have a 25% chance of landing this pick so why would an intelligent man say anything without the lottery process going on unless its ordain that we are taking willie stein and he knows for the most part that at position 1-4 hes going to get him.

I think at April 1 2015 60 days before the draft--there is NO way we should be done with the process. That guys like Mudiay Hozenga Winslow Russell Okafor need to be put through personal workouts and interviews et al. Does Phil J even know that for some reason last year Willie Stein choose to become a blonde for 6 weeks and then colored his hair purple? At the time he seemed to have some personal issues there that would absolutely have to be looked ta if he is to come here to play in NY? This is a process we need to take our time and really think about it.

More good points -- yeah seriously, how can you be that confident that you're basically done with the process already and have your guy in the bag? That's crazy talk...This is a process now that's only just beginning. Has Phil worked out any of these kids? Even sat down and talked to any of these players? No--he's not allowed to yet. He got in trouble even talking about one of them by name not too long ago.

Don't remember that stuff about Stein. Purple hair? Wow--yeah, we would definitely need to screen that kid thoroughly if we consider him a possibility...Bottom line on Stein for me -- big, good defensive role player with limited offensive potential. But to be clear -- no way you take this guy 1-3 in the draft. That'd be insane in the membrane...I gotta believe Phil understands that. He'd get destroyed with a decision like that and rightly so. Plus, with all the persecution/ridicule Stein would endure, he'd never be able to handle that. He'd never work out here and it'd be a wasted pick...At 4 Stein's more of a possibility I guess but even there, I wouldn't take him. Turner would probably be my guy there if I was dead set on drafting a big. I'm tellin' ya, man -- if we wanted some role-playing defensive bigs, how 'bout guys like Jordan Bachynski/Khem Birch/Hasheem Thabeet for peanuts outta the DL, guys like Octavius Ellis if he comes out or Rakeem Christmas in the 2nd round/undrafted (SL invite/FA signing?) or maybe a Jeff Withey if we can get him cheap in FA, and call it a day. At 1-4 in the NBA draft, I want a bonafide impact player (even a player that might have the potential to be one), not a role player.

Ha, again with the purple hair- you need to get out more! What next- tattoos and piercings!

Alright, enough with the friggin' hair. The hair's not the point -- the main point is how can you possibly know definitively who you're taking in the draft at this point. No idea where we're even picking yet, presumably no real investigations on any of these kids have been conducted yet, definitely no sit-down interviews have been conducted, on and on...That's the point--when someone asks you this early in the process if you know who you're taking and you answer with a resounding confident "yes", it comes off peculiar and half-assed, like you couldn't possibly have put in enough work to make a selection of this magnitude yet. When was the last time we had a guaranteed top 4 pick and a legit chance at the number 1 overall pick? 1985, right? This is the most important draft pick we've had in 30 years. It's a potential game changer. We need to hit on this pick. Another concern -- to hear Phil come out and make comments possibly revealing who he may be talking about and for those comments to point toward Willie Cauley-Stein with a top 4 pick--that's disconcerting too. I mean what do you want me to tell ya?!? Legit issues were raised that I happen to agree with. Shoot me. LOL.

The WCS thing is crazy fear-mongering. Everything he said could just as easily be about Towns.

H1AND1 wrote:Briggs you're absolute certainty that Phil is telegraphing a reach for Stein with a top 4 pick, even with the 1st overall is pretty hilarious. There is absolutely no way the knicks are taking him that high and to be certain of this because of some vaguaries at a press conference is ludicrous. Yet your absolutely certain that Phil is taking the "next" Tyson Chandler after treating "the real" Tyson Chandler like kryptonite less than a year prior. How does this make any sense at all!?

And yet, were supposed to believe Phil is so enamored with Steins defense that hed pass on a guy like Towns who projects to be a NBA caliber defender yet also brings a potential offensice game which would be manna in a system like the triangle or any other modern system for that matter. Yet somehow this all flies over Phils head? Yes Phil has had a less than encouraging first year as Knicks prez but no GM/Prez in their right minds would take Stein over the consensus top 4 in this draft. To even mention it would mean that person is off their meds or ready to be put to pasture.

Briggs seriously man Take a chill pill. Your certainty that Phil is telegraphing perhaps the dumbest draft pick of all time is way over the top. Even for the knicks.

I think you are discounting his exact words H1. This will be a wait and see.

BRIGGS wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:Briggs you're absolute certainty that Phil is telegraphing a reach for Stein with a top 4 pick, even with the 1st overall is pretty hilarious. There is absolutely no way the knicks are taking him that high and to be certain of this because of some vaguaries at a press conference is ludicrous. Yet your absolutely certain that Phil is taking the "next" Tyson Chandler after treating "the real" Tyson Chandler like kryptonite less than a year prior. How does this make any sense at all!?

And yet, were supposed to believe Phil is so enamored with Steins defense that hed pass on a guy like Towns who projects to be a NBA caliber defender yet also brings a potential offensice game which would be manna in a system like the triangle or any other modern system for that matter. Yet somehow this all flies over Phils head? Yes Phil has had a less than encouraging first year as Knicks prez but no GM/Prez in their right minds would take Stein over the consensus top 4 in this draft. To even mention it would mean that person is off their meds or ready to be put to pasture.

Briggs seriously man Take a chill pill. Your certainty that Phil is telegraphing perhaps the dumbest draft pick of all time is way over the top. Even for the knicks.

I think you are discounting his exact words H1. This will be a wait and see.

As I said in my first post and as others have said afterwards: His exact words may be "exact" for a reason aka phil is blowing smoke and not the kind of smoke he usually blows out in his Montana mountain hideaway. He may be green as a Pres/GM but what no exec goes on record before the draft and spells out exaxtly what the team has in mind. If anything, his answer today means he's taking Okafor with the first pick. Or Russell, if you take all the "we need forwards above all" stance another diversion.

mreinman wrote:anyone who thinks that the zen master is stupid enough to give away any info at this point is a really shallow thinker.

zen poker smoke screening is all it is (obviously) ...

we have no idea what he is gonna do and there are no hints.

He is the type of guy to go to all Towns' games just for a smoke screen ... who knows

Gimmie a break. What the hell are you basing your statements on?!? Do you know the guy personally or something?? How do you know he's "obviously" blowing smoke?? You're 100% convinced he didn't make another rookie mistake, huh? Like his taking to twitter to berate his team and coach (Fish was not pleased with that crap AT ALL and neither was I), like his taking to twitter to answer Charles Barkley back, like his poor overall job assembling this year's roster, like his rather poor trade of Tyson Chandler (which inadvertently may have helped us garner a top 4 pick--I guarantee you 100% that's not what he intended though), like getting fined talking about D'Angelo Russell by name, like the reluctance to bring in more D-leaguers to audition than he has. And like this whole town hall affair -- WTF is he doing out there talking his head off anyway? I'm the only one who finds that weird? Don't talk the talk Phil -- walk the walk! Talk is cheap, unnecessary and maybe even detrimental if he really did tip his hand here. Enough -- STFU and get back to work. Can't help it, man -- New Yorkers see right through that crap--the rhetoric, the Zen BS, etc.. You know what Zen really is? Jordan/Pippen and Kobe/Shaq. That's the ZEN right there and that's what got this dude inducted into the HOF as a coach -- those 4 players, not his Zen or his triangles. I mean, come on--let's keep it real with this guy, ok please...To see him walk around like some Zen master that people should be throwing rose peddles at his feet--Jeez, does that makes me laugh. His career as a head coach may have gotten him paid a boatload of money when he got the gig here but it hasn't convinced me of anything (I wanted Tom Penn brought in as GM)... Back to this year--I haven't cared for any of these issues he has (or hasn't) gotten himself or his team involved in. I give him a passable mark trading JR and Shump (a necessary evil) and a B+ on the Prigioni trade (which, let's face it, was a minor move when he made it--he didn't expect Shved to take off the way he did--no one did)...I'm willing to wipe the slate clean though and start fresh after the year. After the 82nd game is played, that'll be day 1 for me. But after this season, he's gonna have to show me he's capable of putting together a team that's worth getting behind again, esp. after running his mouth all over the joint here. STFU and put up!!! A little harsh but that's how I feel.

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:anyone who thinks that the zen master is stupid enough to give away any info at this point is a really shallow thinker.

zen poker smoke screening is all it is (obviously) ...

we have no idea what he is gonna do and there are no hints.

He is the type of guy to go to all Towns' games just for a smoke screen ... who knows

Gimmie a break. What the hell are you basing your statements on?!? Do you know the guy personally or something?? How do you know he's "obviously" blowing smoke?? You're 100% convinced he didn't make another rookie mistake, huh? Like his taking to twitter to berate his team and coach (Fish was not pleased with that crap AT ALL and neither was I), like his taking to twitter to answer Charles Barkley back, like his poor overall job assembling this year's roster, like his rather poor trade of Tyson Chandler (which inadvertently may have helped us garner a top 4 pick--I guarantee you 100% that's not what he intended though), like getting fined talking about D'Angelo Russell by name, like the reluctance to bring in more D-leaguers to audition than he has. And like this whole town hall affair -- WTF is he doing out there talking his head off anyway? I'm the only one who finds that weird? Don't talk the talk Phil -- walk the walk! Talk is cheap, unnecessary and maybe even detrimental if he really did tip his hand here. Enough -- STFU and get back to work. Can't help it, man -- New Yorkers see right through that crap--the rhetoric, the Zen BS, etc.. You know what Zen really is? Jordan/Pippen and Kobe/Shaq. That's the ZEN right there and that's what got this dude inducted into the HOF as a coach -- those 4 players, not his Zen or his triangles. I mean, come on--let's keep it real with this guy, ok please...To see him walk around like some Zen master that people should be throwing rose peddles at his feet--Jeez, does that makes me laugh. His career as a head coach may have gotten him paid a boatload of money when he got the gig here but it hasn't convinced me of anything (I wanted Tom Penn brought in as GM)... Back to this year--I haven't cared for any of these issues he has (or hasn't) gotten himself or his team involved in. I give him a passable mark trading JR and Shump (a necessary evil) and a B+ on the Prigioni trade (which, let's face it, was a minor move when he made it--he didn't expect Shved to take off the way he did--no one did)...I'm willing to wipe the slate clean though and start fresh after the year. After the 82nd game is played, that'll be day 1 for me. But after this season, he's gonna have to show me he's capable of putting together a team that's worth getting behind again, esp. after running his mouth all over the joint here. STFU and put up!!! A little harsh but that's how I feel.

Phil and his staff have been looking for talent based on their own scouting reports. Galloway, Early, Thanasis and Ledo are examples of them showing solid scouting. These players may not be all the way there but you can see signs of them developing.

Finestrg wrote:If Early's out for an extended period now with the ankle (ashame, last night's the best he's looked as a Knick--wanted to see him build on that--now there's another setback) -- do we use the roster spot to take a look at a guy like Eric Griffin possibly for the remainder of the year? See this is part of what I'm talking about with Phil -- be aggressive here given the situation. Turn a negative into a positive.

They're still scouting guys and just cuz they don't bring them in right now doesn't mean they won't in the future. Remember also that it was mentioned during the Town Hall that they've scouted some Euro's that they think could play in the NBA right now. We don't know the full plan so it's hard to say why they aren't bringing in more guys.

Finestrg wrote:Gimmie a break. What the hell are you basing your statements on?!? Do you know the guy personally or something?? How do you know he's "obviously" blowing smoke?? You're 100% convinced he didn't make another rookie mistake, huh?

General sports history.

Phil Jackson might be, IMHO, over his head as a rookie GM, however he's not insane. In any of the major pro sports, anyone with a projected top shelf draft pick is not going to reveal their hand. They are all going to "listen" to any offers. They are all going to "keep their options open"

Jackson has nothing to gain and everything to lose by suggesting who he will target in the draft. As if he has a ton of choice in the matter. Again, most teams, based on value, the draft comes to them and they just take the best player available to them.

Telling mreinman he's wrong on this one, IMHO, is essentially defying the past 50 or so years of general western pro sports history. He's right, he could have said it a different way probably, but he's right.

Mike Holmgren was interviews several years ago, and he said one of the fastest ways to end a coaching career in the NFL is to get caught lying. You can make a mistake, but just be honest. That the league itself would punish deception more than they often would the truth, no matter how ugly. ( I suspect he was referring to Vick and the dog issue) Then he said, except one time of the year. He said during draft season, you can lie as much as you want, everyone does it, and it's all forgiven. That people understand it's all part of the gamesmanship of the draft process and it's not personal.