holfresh wrote:

Splat wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Splat wrote:Does anyone at this point need to question what Melo put Denver, NYC and the whole NBA through that season? It was the biggest NBA Melo-drama of all time and completely draining.

DK's point about not honoring his contract is not technically true for two reasons:

1) Melo was no pioneer when it comes to hijacking his team to force a mid-season trade.

2) Legally speaking he honored his contract for the full season wherever he played, Denver or NYC.

but the parts that really matter have little to do with that.

What really mattered in the end is Melo was too damn stupid to realize he was forcing himself into a situation where his new club had to squander its assets to get him.

You could talk about him being greedy and not waiting until free agency and simply taking less or not. I could care less.

But the historical conclusion I think is hard to dispute is Melo screwed himself aside from financial renumeration. He's pretty stupid unless you think he's smart because he got paid.

Is Melo is the stupid one or fans for not realizing this is a business first..That players will always do what is in their best interest first..Like what everyone else does in their own lives...

You pretty much answered the question yourself. Melo's self-interest was financial. He got what he wanted.

If he wanted to ensure the success of the team he'd be playing on, then what he facilitated happening was pretty damn stupid.

But the other take may be that Melo doesn't really care enough about winning and more about getting paid. In which case, he was not stupid and was merely a businessman as you put it.

So I'd have to agree then. Rooting for businessmen is delightful.

No, the idea was to play with another great player in Amare and add a third player...Amare broke down and we added Flu Tyson...A few of you don't want to look at the whole picture but just spew a certain narrative...Say it enough times and use it as my signature and people might believe it...

Yeah, it was a genius plan. Meanwhile, Melo has his mended leg up on a couch and Mozgov nets Denver two first rounders at a time when many Knicks fans would give their left nut to give away Melo for one first rounder. No, retaining assets didn't matter. It was all about countering Miami's super trio with a ballhog, an idiot forward with uninsurable knees and some unknown third piece TBD at a future date that never came. Asset management matters at every stage of team building and shouldn't be tossed out the window to chase pie in the sky max fantasies with ill-fitting, dumb ballplayers. Miami had three great players, none of whom are dumb. Dolan wanted that. He can't have that. He's too dumb.

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Splat wrote:Does anyone at this point need to question what Melo put Denver, NYC and the whole NBA through that season? It was the biggest NBA Melo-drama of all time and completely draining.

DK's point about not honoring his contract is not technically true for two reasons:

1) Melo was no pioneer when it comes to hijacking his team to force a mid-season trade.

2) Legally speaking he honored his contract for the full season wherever he played, Denver or NYC.

but the parts that really matter have little to do with that.

What really mattered in the end is Melo was too damn stupid to realize he was forcing himself into a situation where his new club had to squander its assets to get him.

You could talk about him being greedy and not waiting until free agency and simply taking less or not. I could care less.

But the historical conclusion I think is hard to dispute is Melo screwed himself aside from financial renumeration. He's pretty stupid unless you think he's smart because he got paid.

Is Melo is the stupid one or fans for not realizing this is a business first..That players will always do what is in their best interest first..Like what everyone else does in their own lives...

The owners were telling the players they were going to lock them out and rein in free agency that offseason. They didn't want guys leaving their teams, and colluding like Bosh, Wade and Bron. Melo wanted to leave the nuggets and wanted to negotiate a new deal under the old cba. The Melo should have waited argument means Denver gets nothing for him, and Melo loses 25 mil if he waits. It also assumes that Masaj just sits and waits for Melo to leave while getting no compensation. Melo didn't negotiate what the Knicks gave up for him.

Again, Melo got what he wanted. Money. That's the argument offered. I accept it as the truth. Everybody will draw their own personal conclusions about the rest.

Did the Nuggets and Knicks get what they wanted? I don't think Masaj does that deal if he thinks he can do better or if he thinks keeping Melo is a better option. I also don't think there is anyway Walsh/Dolan allows Melo to end up in NJ. Also, to ignore the labor situation at the time and say it was just about money seems like a pretty simplistic viewpoint.

Denver's front office was smarter than James Dolan. They were casting their fishing nets to haul in the biggest catch. They had a Russian billionaire across the river to help them up the ante.

Denver did their job. I don't care about Denver. I cared about the Knicks.

If they'd allowed Melo to end up in NJ it would have been the greatest blessing ever. Too bad they let vanity intrude on common sense.

And I've ignored nothing. First guys say its about the money and then it is not about the money. What is it about then? The labor situation was not about money? What then? Freedom? It was about the money.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:None of this explains why We rushed to trade Tyson. Unless Phil is really that stupid. I don't think he is I think it's a lot more plausible that he did it to please dolan and Melo and get Melo signed.

Totally disagree with the pleasing melo statement. I think he saw a guy that was paid a ton to be a leader with a championship pedigree that gave up on his team and tried to sabotage his coach. I think Phil was telling the truth when he said he wanted guys with character. Look at the guys that have been moved out. None of them other than Pablo can be characterized as high character guys.

you have it upside down and backwards again.

melo is a low character guy which is why dolan can tolerate him, in fact more than tolerate. dolan cannot tolerate superior men to himself and he finds a way of alienating them or sending them away. walsh comes to mind, and he didn't get more than a couple of million to do the job he did. but of course we must remember that stern virtually mandated that dolan hire walsh. it's because dolan is a malignant narcissist who likes to break stuff but has enough money to try and cover up his mess.

jackson's legacy will be tarnished for a tidy 60 million dollar sum before this escapade is over.

Could you expand upon this??...Site examples??..I say this because I know you are down on Melo for not lying to the Nuggets..You applauded LeBron deceitful exit from Cleveland..Please explain..

for the record i have said many times that lebron colluded with wade-- another guy whose character i have issues with-- and bosh. what he did was shytti and unethical, especially when you think about what it meant to the knicks and other suitors.

but you know what else he did? he honored his ****ing contract! now i ask you-- did melo, for all his "honesty," did melo honor his contract?

deceit in order to win on the one hand and on the other hand greed at the expense of winning.

This should be a good one..How did Melo not honor his contract??..By telling them he won't resign after his contract it up??

he forced his way here. he himself admitted it 2.5 years later. there were several quotes from the aftermath of that period of how difficult it was for denver as a team... so basically he screwed the team he was playing for AS he was playing for them. so yeah-- melo did not honor his contract in both directions.

I don't follow, how is that not honoring your contract??.Is there a clause in the contract that says you have to resign with the team that you are traded to??..Or he is not allow to choose his destination?..They could have done what Minny did with Love..

i didn't say he breached his contract but he did not honor the contract. it's the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. he became a distraction to the team that was paying him to perform his duties.

splat in the above post says melo was stupid. i also say stupid and add selfish and greedy.

he could have kept his mouth shut and become a free agent after that season, no matter where he mat have been traded by the nuggets before the end of that season. if the nuggets could not bear that stance that is on them. as it is he facilitated the exit by forcing his way to the knicks instead of doing the ethical thing which was to honor his contract until the nuggets themselves had to make a hard decision.

why help the team you are with instead of the team you want to end up going to, by trade or free agency?

anyway, you win hofresh. melo is a knick and will remain a knick for the forseeable future. i know that makes you happy, not only that he is being paid 25 million per season but that he is in the orange and blue. start up the marching band:

But you are asking him to do something that you would not do..Would you risk losing 25 mil if you can help it dk7??..Just like you can't blame Lin for taking the money in Houston...Free Agents resign with the own teams because of the extra year means extra money..Doesn't make them low character people..

Splat wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Splat wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Splat wrote:Does anyone at this point need to question what Melo put Denver, NYC and the whole NBA through that season? It was the biggest NBA Melo-drama of all time and completely draining.

DK's point about not honoring his contract is not technically true for two reasons:

1) Melo was no pioneer when it comes to hijacking his team to force a mid-season trade.

2) Legally speaking he honored his contract for the full season wherever he played, Denver or NYC.

but the parts that really matter have little to do with that.

What really mattered in the end is Melo was too damn stupid to realize he was forcing himself into a situation where his new club had to squander its assets to get him.

You could talk about him being greedy and not waiting until free agency and simply taking less or not. I could care less.

But the historical conclusion I think is hard to dispute is Melo screwed himself aside from financial renumeration. He's pretty stupid unless you think he's smart because he got paid.

Is Melo is the stupid one or fans for not realizing this is a business first..That players will always do what is in their best interest first..Like what everyone else does in their own lives...

You pretty much answered the question yourself. Melo's self-interest was financial. He got what he wanted.

If he wanted to ensure the success of the team he'd be playing on, then what he facilitated happening was pretty damn stupid.

But the other take may be that Melo doesn't really care enough about winning and more about getting paid. In which case, he was not stupid and was merely a businessman as you put it.

So I'd have to agree then. Rooting for businessmen is delightful.

No, the idea was to play with another great player in Amare and add a third player...Amare broke down and we added Flu Tyson...A few of you don't want to look at the whole picture but just spew a certain narrative...Say it enough times and use it as my signature and people might believe it...

Yeah, it was a genius plan. Meanwhile, Melo has his mended leg up on a couch and Mozgov nets Denver two first rounders at a time when many Knicks fans would give their left nut to give away Melo for one first rounder. No, retaining assets didn't matter. It was all about countering Miami's super trio with a ballhog, an idiot forward with uninsurable knees and some unknown third piece TBD at a future date that never came. Asset management matters at every stage of team building and shouldn't be tossed out the window to chase pie in the sky max fantasies with ill-fitting, dumb ballplayers. Miami had three great players, none of whom are dumb. Dolan wanted that. He can't have that. He's too dumb.

Assets matter??..Then why is Denver imploding??...And how is Gallo's knees since we are talking injuries and uninsurable knees...We have had bad coaches and few bad GMs..Where were you during the 54 win season??..He showed you what could happen with a minimum of average players around him...Everyone looks smart when 3 all stars are on the court...

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:None of this explains why We rushed to trade Tyson. Unless Phil is really that stupid. I don't think he is I think it's a lot more plausible that he did it to please dolan and Melo and get Melo signed.

Totally disagree with the pleasing melo statement. I think he saw a guy that was paid a ton to be a leader with a championship pedigree that gave up on his team and tried to sabotage his coach. I think Phil was telling the truth when he said he wanted guys with character. Look at the guys that have been moved out. None of them other than Pablo can be characterized as high character guys.

you have it upside down and backwards again.

melo is a low character guy which is why dolan can tolerate him, in fact more than tolerate. dolan cannot tolerate superior men to himself and he finds a way of alienating them or sending them away. walsh comes to mind, and he didn't get more than a couple of million to do the job he did. but of course we must remember that stern virtually mandated that dolan hire walsh. it's because dolan is a malignant narcissist who likes to break stuff but has enough money to try and cover up his mess.

jackson's legacy will be tarnished for a tidy 60 million dollar sum before this escapade is over.

Could you expand upon this??...Site examples??..I say this because I know you are down on Melo for not lying to the Nuggets..You applauded LeBron deceitful exit from Cleveland..Please explain..

for the record i have said many times that lebron colluded with wade-- another guy whose character i have issues with-- and bosh. what he did was shytti and unethical, especially when you think about what it meant to the knicks and other suitors.

but you know what else he did? he honored his ****ing contract! now i ask you-- did melo, for all his "honesty," did melo honor his contract?

deceit in order to win on the one hand and on the other hand greed at the expense of winning.

This should be a good one..How did Melo not honor his contract??..By telling them he won't resign after his contract it up??

he forced his way here. he himself admitted it 2.5 years later. there were several quotes from the aftermath of that period of how difficult it was for denver as a team... so basically he screwed the team he was playing for AS he was playing for them. so yeah-- melo did not honor his contract in both directions.

I don't follow, how is that not honoring your contract??.Is there a clause in the contract that says you have to resign with the team that you are traded to??..Or he is not allow to choose his destination?..They could have done what Minny did with Love..

i didn't say he breached his contract but he did not honor the contract. it's the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. he became a distraction to the team that was paying him to perform his duties.

splat in the above post says melo was stupid. i also say stupid and add selfish and greedy.

he could have kept his mouth shut and become a free agent after that season, no matter where he mat have been traded by the nuggets before the end of that season. if the nuggets could not bear that stance that is on them. as it is he facilitated the exit by forcing his way to the knicks instead of doing the ethical thing which was to honor his contract until the nuggets themselves had to make a hard decision.

why help the team you are with instead of the team you want to end up going to, by trade or free agency?

anyway, you win hofresh. melo is a knick and will remain a knick for the forseeable future. i know that makes you happy, not only that he is being paid 25 million per season but that he is in the orange and blue. start up the marching band:

But you are asking him to do something that you would not do..Would you risk losing 25 mil if you can help it dk7??..Just like you can't blame Lin for taking the money in Houston...Free Agents resign with the own teams because of the extra year means extra money..Doesn't make them low character people..

you understand the concept of orders of magnitude, powers of ten, exponents? at what point do you stop "feeling" the money? at 1 million? certainly not. how about 10 million. that's actually still an amount most of us could "feel."

but this guy is going to make over 150 million before he retires and he won't even be 40 years old.

so to answer your question, i would risk making less money. i'd rather have the best opportunity to win a title in new york, to have the chance to have my name mentioned in the same breath as walt frazier, derek jeter, eli manning, mark messier, joe dimaggio.

that'd be something i could "feel" every day the rest of my days.

Shaq inducted into Magic's HOF tells why he left Orlando...

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12571959/shaquille-oneal-inducted-orlando-magic-hall-fame

ORLANDO, Fla. -- It's been nearly two decades since Shaquille O'Neal left the Orlando Magic to pursue the championship that eluded him during his first four seasons in the NBA.

He returned Friday to be inducted into the Magic's Hall of Fame, a moment he said was an "unexpected" celebration of his contributions to the franchise. It was also a reunion that prompted O'Neal to acknowledge regrets about leaving his original NBA team.

"It's unexpected because I came here to win. We won games, and then I made a business decision," said O'Neal, who becomes the third member of the Magic's hall, joining co-founder Pat Williams and first-ever draft pick Nick Anderson. "It's never personal. The [team owner Rich] DeVos family knows that. And I accomplished [a championship] somewhere else. It's not like I didn't think they weren't going to be upset or anything. But it's business. It was all business.

"Do I regret it? I never fully answer it. I regret it sometimes. Is this where I started and should have stayed? I actually wish they made it a law that whoever drafts you, you gotta stay there your whole career."

O'Neal was just a potential-filled 20-year-old when he arrived from LSU as the No. 1 overall pick in the 1992 draft. Almost immediately, the 7-footer commanded the attention of the entire league with his dominant presence on the court and gregarious personality off it.

It all helped him take the Magic from an infant expansion team to their first NBA Finals appearance in 1995.

So it's not lost on O'Neal why the backlash was so strong when he joined the Los Angeles Lakers, where he would go on to win three of his four NBA championship rings.

O'Neal said the DeVos family deserves "a couple" of championships and that the Magic's 1995 Finals team, which also featured a core of Penny Hardaway and Anderson, had a chance to get back.

"That's why I kind of regret it, because we had a young, fabulous team," O'Neal said. "We really did. And it's a shame that we got torn apart. But I think about that all the time. I try not to live my life now on 'ifs' or 'would've, should've,' but do I regret leaving here in '96, yes I do."

Williams said he was happy to hear O'Neal acknowledge regrets about leaving and dispelled the popular narrative that the Magic simply chose not to match the Lakers' seven-year, $120 million contract in the summer of 1996.

At the time, Williams said "there was a tiny little piece of time" in which NBA rules allowed first-time contract guys to be unrestricted free agents.

"The league had put it in place, and that meant that any free agent could sign and you couldn't match it," Williams said. "He was gone. Right after that they realized it was terribly unfair and they changed it. And from that point on you could now match on a restricted. But in that little window, Shaq was gone. It is the Shaq rule. And we came back later and beat the Lakers' offer in the closing minutes. But emotionally, Shaq was gone."

Now as a 43-year-old, O'Neal said he would have handled the whole thing differently.

"I wish I would have had more patience," he said. "I wanted to be protected from the bashing. What I mean by that is I wanted to win then. Even when I got [to Los Angeles], I still got bashed. It took four years to win. But I was very impatient. I was very young, and I thought that if I go there, with those guys out there, I could win right away and that wasn't the case.

"Now that I'm older now, I wish as a youngster I would have had more patience."

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:None of this explains why We rushed to trade Tyson. Unless Phil is really that stupid. I don't think he is I think it's a lot more plausible that he did it to please dolan and Melo and get Melo signed.

Totally disagree with the pleasing melo statement. I think he saw a guy that was paid a ton to be a leader with a championship pedigree that gave up on his team and tried to sabotage his coach. I think Phil was telling the truth when he said he wanted guys with character. Look at the guys that have been moved out. None of them other than Pablo can be characterized as high character guys.

you have it upside down and backwards again.

melo is a low character guy which is why dolan can tolerate him, in fact more than tolerate. dolan cannot tolerate superior men to himself and he finds a way of alienating them or sending them away. walsh comes to mind, and he didn't get more than a couple of million to do the job he did. but of course we must remember that stern virtually mandated that dolan hire walsh. it's because dolan is a malignant narcissist who likes to break stuff but has enough money to try and cover up his mess.

jackson's legacy will be tarnished for a tidy 60 million dollar sum before this escapade is over.

Could you expand upon this??...Site examples??..I say this because I know you are down on Melo for not lying to the Nuggets..You applauded LeBron deceitful exit from Cleveland..Please explain..

for the record i have said many times that lebron colluded with wade-- another guy whose character i have issues with-- and bosh. what he did was shytti and unethical, especially when you think about what it meant to the knicks and other suitors.

but you know what else he did? he honored his ****ing contract! now i ask you-- did melo, for all his "honesty," did melo honor his contract?

deceit in order to win on the one hand and on the other hand greed at the expense of winning.

This should be a good one..How did Melo not honor his contract??..By telling them he won't resign after his contract it up??

he forced his way here. he himself admitted it 2.5 years later. there were several quotes from the aftermath of that period of how difficult it was for denver as a team... so basically he screwed the team he was playing for AS he was playing for them. so yeah-- melo did not honor his contract in both directions.

I don't follow, how is that not honoring your contract??.Is there a clause in the contract that says you have to resign with the team that you are traded to??..Or he is not allow to choose his destination?..They could have done what Minny did with Love..

i didn't say he breached his contract but he did not honor the contract. it's the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. he became a distraction to the team that was paying him to perform his duties.

splat in the above post says melo was stupid. i also say stupid and add selfish and greedy.

he could have kept his mouth shut and become a free agent after that season, no matter where he mat have been traded by the nuggets before the end of that season. if the nuggets could not bear that stance that is on them. as it is he facilitated the exit by forcing his way to the knicks instead of doing the ethical thing which was to honor his contract until the nuggets themselves had to make a hard decision.

why help the team you are with instead of the team you want to end up going to, by trade or free agency?

anyway, you win hofresh. melo is a knick and will remain a knick for the forseeable future. i know that makes you happy, not only that he is being paid 25 million per season but that he is in the orange and blue. start up the marching band:

But you are asking him to do something that you would not do..Would you risk losing 25 mil if you can help it dk7??..Just like you can't blame Lin for taking the money in Houston...Free Agents resign with the own teams because of the extra year means extra money..Doesn't make them low character people..

you understand the concept of orders of magnitude, powers of ten, exponents? at what point do you stop "feeling" the money? at 1 million? certainly not. how about 10 million. that's actually still an amount most of us could "feel."

but this guy is going to make over 150 million before he retires and he won't even be 40 years old.

so to answer your question, i would risk making less money. i'd rather have the best opportunity to win a title in new york, to have the chance to have my name mentioned in the same breath as walt frazier, derek jeter, eli manning, mark messier, joe dimaggio.

that'd be something i could "feel" every day the rest of my days.

The more racist thing is to bait someone and call them a racist if they say things about race that make you uncomfortable.

I hope people understand the difference.

Besides it is not like Triple throws out random statements. Nobody explains themselves in greater detail than them whether you like it or not or agree with them or not.

Splat wrote:I was going to stay out of this, but to be honest I don't think because Triple identifies what he sees as racially tinged hypocrisy that makes him racist. It makes him opinionated about race.

The more racist thing is to bait someone and call them a racist if they say things about race that make you uncomfortable.

I hope people understand the difference.

Besides it is not like Triple throws out random statements. Nobody explains themselves in greater detail than them whether you like it or not or agree with them or not.

I don't mind TT being opinionated about race its actually a good thing. Its way better then keeping it to himself. As opening up the dialog has a better chance at people coming to an understanding then if he was just quiet about it.

Some of the things he says though comes off as ignorant as the people he is ripping for ignorance. For example his beef with Kevin Durant wanting to be a rapper or something like that growing up. There is a clear lack of understanding that KD was poor and was raised by his single mom and grew up in a hip hop culture where all his friends and him were big on hip hop. Its really logical that hip hop would be a huge influence in Durant's life. Especially with no father figure in his life. TT is hating on things that he most likely doesn't relate to understand. Sometimes comes off as a dude who things black people's sole purpose is to entertain whites. Then again he also comes off as a basketball purest so I could see the beef with how the game has changed etc... When you understand the areas and lives a lot of these players have come from. The purity of basketball is probably the last thing on there mind and the hip hop influence most likely is strong ingrained.

Its the same as Kanye West going off at the grammy's all the time about Taylor Swift or Beck winning over Beyonce. And claiming people got to respect artistry. He can clearly relate to Beyonce's style more so then Taylor Swift or Beck and since he don't relate to them it doesn't have the same appeal to him. Hating on what he doesn't relate to or understand.

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:None of this explains why We rushed to trade Tyson. Unless Phil is really that stupid. I don't think he is I think it's a lot more plausible that he did it to please dolan and Melo and get Melo signed.

Totally disagree with the pleasing melo statement. I think he saw a guy that was paid a ton to be a leader with a championship pedigree that gave up on his team and tried to sabotage his coach. I think Phil was telling the truth when he said he wanted guys with character. Look at the guys that have been moved out. None of them other than Pablo can be characterized as high character guys.

you have it upside down and backwards again.

melo is a low character guy which is why dolan can tolerate him, in fact more than tolerate. dolan cannot tolerate superior men to himself and he finds a way of alienating them or sending them away. walsh comes to mind, and he didn't get more than a couple of million to do the job he did. but of course we must remember that stern virtually mandated that dolan hire walsh. it's because dolan is a malignant narcissist who likes to break stuff but has enough money to try and cover up his mess.

jackson's legacy will be tarnished for a tidy 60 million dollar sum before this escapade is over.

Could you expand upon this??...Site examples??..I say this because I know you are down on Melo for not lying to the Nuggets..You applauded LeBron deceitful exit from Cleveland..Please explain..

for the record i have said many times that lebron colluded with wade-- another guy whose character i have issues with-- and bosh. what he did was shytti and unethical, especially when you think about what it meant to the knicks and other suitors.

but you know what else he did? he honored his ****ing contract! now i ask you-- did melo, for all his "honesty," did melo honor his contract?

deceit in order to win on the one hand and on the other hand greed at the expense of winning.

This should be a good one..How did Melo not honor his contract??..By telling them he won't resign after his contract it up??

he forced his way here. he himself admitted it 2.5 years later. there were several quotes from the aftermath of that period of how difficult it was for denver as a team... so basically he screwed the team he was playing for AS he was playing for them. so yeah-- melo did not honor his contract in both directions.

I don't follow, how is that not honoring your contract??.Is there a clause in the contract that says you have to resign with the team that you are traded to??..Or he is not allow to choose his destination?..They could have done what Minny did with Love..

i didn't say he breached his contract but he did not honor the contract. it's the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. he became a distraction to the team that was paying him to perform his duties.

splat in the above post says melo was stupid. i also say stupid and add selfish and greedy.

he could have kept his mouth shut and become a free agent after that season, no matter where he mat have been traded by the nuggets before the end of that season. if the nuggets could not bear that stance that is on them. as it is he facilitated the exit by forcing his way to the knicks instead of doing the ethical thing which was to honor his contract until the nuggets themselves had to make a hard decision.

why help the team you are with instead of the team you want to end up going to, by trade or free agency?

anyway, you win hofresh. melo is a knick and will remain a knick for the forseeable future. i know that makes you happy, not only that he is being paid 25 million per season but that he is in the orange and blue. start up the marching band:

But you are asking him to do something that you would not do..Would you risk losing 25 mil if you can help it dk7??..Just like you can't blame Lin for taking the money in Houston...Free Agents resign with the own teams because of the extra year means extra money..Doesn't make them low character people..

you understand the concept of orders of magnitude, powers of ten, exponents? at what point do you stop "feeling" the money? at 1 million? certainly not. how about 10 million. that's actually still an amount most of us could "feel."

but this guy is going to make over 150 million before he retires and he won't even be 40 years old.

so to answer your question, i would risk making less money. i'd rather have the best opportunity to win a title in new york, to have the chance to have my name mentioned in the same breath as walt frazier, derek jeter, eli manning, mark messier, joe dimaggio.

that'd be something i could "feel" every day the rest of my days.

Money first, title second, you and I both know there isn't too many athletes (if any at all) that will sacrifice money for a title smack dead in the prime of their careers. That doesn't start happening until the tail end of their prime, It's just too risky, injuries happen. Look what happen to steph curry, he had to take a low ball extension because his ankle injury force him to miss 40+ games over 2 seasons.

So when you say you would have taken less money, you would be on of the FEW. Patrick and Houston didn't take less money, why are they different from melo

houston isn't any different, in fact i think he's a douche and a problem in the knicks' organization. i don't like him.

ewing is a troublesome topic-- he had a high degree of success but was never quite good enough to win it all. bird, magic, pistons, olajuwon all were better. his attitude was slightly arrogant when all is said and done and i did resent his attitude towards the end of his knick career. he just couldn't step aside and he put himself before the team. i had no problem with nelson trying to go small. i liked mason's skills and i never liked how plodding and methodical and predictable ewing was. what i resented most of all was his refusal to go to a big man's camp like hakeem and walton and shaquille went to. that lack of interest, instead opting for a fadeaway baseline shot and a midrange jumper-- hurt his teams because it took him away from the basket. i also thought he worked on developing his upper body too much and that upper body weight made him top heavy, less agile, and less balanced.

ewing had too much wrongful pride to accept a lesser role and less money, and i thought that was really uncool.

smackeddog wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Splat wrote:Does anyone at this point need to question what Melo put Denver, NYC and the whole NBA through that season? It was the biggest NBA Melo-drama of all time and completely draining.

DK's point about not honoring his contract is not technically true for two reasons:

1) Melo was no pioneer when it comes to hijacking his team to force a mid-season trade.

2) Legally speaking he honored his contract for the full season wherever he played, Denver or NYC.

but the parts that really matter have little to do with that.

What really mattered in the end is Melo was too damn stupid to realize he was forcing himself into a situation where his new club had to squander its assets to get him.

You could talk about him being greedy and not waiting until free agency and simply taking less or not. I could care less.

But the historical conclusion I think is hard to dispute is Melo screwed himself aside from financial renumeration. He's pretty stupid unless you think he's smart because he got paid.

Is Melo is the stupid one or fans for not realizing this is a business first..That players will always do what is in their best interest first..Like what everyone else does in their own lives...

The owners were telling the players they were going to lock them out and rein in free agency that offseason. They didn't want guys leaving their teams, and colluding like Bosh, Wade and Bron. Melo wanted to leave the nuggets and wanted to negotiate a new deal under the old cba. The Melo should have waited argument means Denver gets nothing for him, and Melo loses 25 mil if he waits. It also assumes that Masaj just sits and waits for Melo to leave while getting no compensation. Melo didn't negotiate what the Knicks gave up for him.

Again, Melo got what he wanted. Money. That's the argument offered. I accept it as the truth. Everybody will draw their own personal conclusions about the rest.

Did the Nuggets and Knicks get what they wanted? I don't think Masaj does that deal if he thinks he can do better or if he thinks keeping Melo is a better option. I also don't think there is anyway Walsh/Dolan allows Melo to end up in NJ. Also, to ignore the labor situation at the time and say it was just about money seems like a pretty simplistic viewpoint.

Denver's front office was smarter than James Dolan. They were casting their fishing nets to haul in the biggest catch. They had a Russian billionaire across the river to help them up the ante.

Denver did their job. I don't care about Denver. I cared about the Knicks.

If they'd allowed Melo to end up in NJ it would have been the greatest blessing ever. Too bad they let vanity intrude on common sense.

And I've ignored nothing. First guys say its about the money and then it is not about the money. What is it about then? The labor situation was not about money? What then? Freedom? It was about the money.

The labor situation was about changing free agency and making it very costly for stars to leave the team that drafted them. You follow this stuff right? Dwill isn't in Dallas because he would've lost 25 mil.

So it is about the money. Got it.

What do you think the nba is about?

it's about the best franchises winning titles with the players who are most willing to sacrifice money and point scoring.

TripleThreat wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:Gustav called TripleThreat out in another thread today saying I guess we're lucky you didn't use the N word. I only noticed his Beef with the Blacks in the last week or two... I read a post of his a few days ago and said "damn" but expected someone else to get at it. You know I loves myself some off-topic social commentary, but Jesus.

The NBA would be better if it wasn't for all these pesky low-character Blacks. That's great TripleThreat, thanks for that. Start a thread on it and let's really get at it. But until then, what the **** does NBA Champion coach Doc Rivers' ethnicity have to do with whatever credit he gets, or him sending Woodson out for him in a press conference?

The point of bringing up Doc Rivers is that he has clearly gotten IMHO smug and even more arrogant after the ouster Donald Sterling. Media spin control for the NBA shifted the narrative from "Look at this old racist white guy that WE AS OWNERS TOLERATED FOR DECADES, but now only care about pushing out BECAUSE THE FRANCHISE WILL SELL FOR TWO BILLION, THUS RAISING THE VALUATION OF ALL OF OUR FRANCHISES" to "Look at this hero, this courageous black coach, who galvanized this team, in the face of having it's owner jettisoned and all this controversy. He's the bedrock in this storm"

The liberal media narrative, helped pushed by the NBA's owners and marketing division wants to push that first narrative out the window. The one about free speech and covering things that Mark Cuban discussed ( i.e. the slipperly slope of hammering people for what they say versus what they do in the NBA and if the owners really want to start counting crimes, subtlely referencing DeVos, who kidnapped and raped a woman and was only later made to sell the franchise he had)

My contention is the entire situation gave Doc Rivers an even bigger head, which made him think he was bullet proof and arrogant enough to actually allow Mike Woodson to run the post game press conference, which is typically unusual and nearly unprecedented, merely to take shots at his former team. There was no other reason than pure malice. It's classless and unprofessional. Mike Woodson might have some axes to grind with the Knicks,but the head coach of the Clippers should not be the one to facilitate that.

I have no beef with blacks, and my line of discussion in that regard IMHO is not "off topic social commentary" When Iman Shumpert care more about his rap career than focusing being the best basketball player he can be, that's a problem. If could be drugs, it could be women, it could be gambling, it could be any vice or any activity that takes his attention from being the best ball player he can be. But it's not just Shumpert is it? It's STAT wanting to be a "renaissance man" with his wine baths. It's Melo wanting to be some kind of business mogul like Jay Z. Are we going to kid ourselves that it's an issue mostly with young black pro athletes who want to be some kind of cultural "icon" instead of just focusing on being the best ball player that they can be? Sorry, I'm just not going to ride the politically correct train here and try to say that Jimmer Fredette is just as likely to not work on his skill set because he wants to host a film festival or start his own line of cologne. It's clearly a problem with many of the modern black pro athletes and it's a problem that will tend to root from the general issues of the American black culture. Call me or anyone else anything you want but that potential problem, as it stands for the Knicks or any pro sports franchise in America, is not going away anytime soon. And as a large market with branding and mass media and other entertainment niche opportunities, the Knicks face a far more concerted risk to this except for a select few other franchises like the Lakers.

And I wasn't the only one to say it. Charles Barkley came out after The Decision and after LeBron James claimed that the backlash was about racism and handed James his hat over it, pointing out he believed that it wasn't that James was black, but that most of the general public believed what James did was classless and unnecessary. Until Barkley came out later and essentially said the network no longer wanted him to discuss LBJ. During the last draft, when Bill Simmons actually uttered the phrase "The Decision", his mic was cut off and the broadcast went to commercial.

If you think a mostly white sports media and their bosses and editors and producers, most of which are probably also white, aren't thinking about how sensitive they should be or not regarding criticism of black athletes, then IMHO, think again. Think hard again. Because I'm not saying anything that is reinventing the wheel here, I'm just pointing out things that I feel are fairly obvious in the liberal media.

To answer your question, if Doc Rivers was white, the sports media, under the behest of the NBA, couldn't prop up him to be the hero of the 'narrative' in the Donald Sterling saga, one where owners want to distance themselves from why they DID NOTHING ABOUT STERLING for decades until it became profitable. Then again, if Rivers was white, it would surely lead to more questions about when Chris Paul, before he signed that fat extension to play for said Sterling the Racist, that he'd simply prefer to play for a black coach instead of a white one. But hey, let's not ride that angle right? Or do you think Bill Simmons producers and editors and ESPN brass didn't talk to Simmons about the potential racial implications of his feud with Rivers over leaving Boston amidst conflicting statements, only to see Simmons basically start licking Rivers bootheels in the Sterling saga?

Are we just going to sit here and pretend when Jason Sehorn was the last white starting cornerback in the NFL since .. forever.. that when black cornerbacks and were interviewed, that when they said, "Hey he's actually pretty good" that we are supposed to just ignore that they really meant "He's pretty good...for a white guy" Imaging if Sehorn said that about any black quarterback? I'm always amused by the contingent who is ok with socially acceptable "racism" flipping one way, but never the other. In that regard, "Thanks for that" as well.

My contention is if Doc Rivers was white, he wouldn't have gotten so much press juice as some kind of franchise hero when he just happened to be mercenary coach who lied about all the promises he made to the Celtic fanbase as was in the right place and right time to feel bullet proof enough to throw his assistant coach out there to hatchet job his former team.

No NBA head coach should let his assistant have a "drop the mic" moment just for grinding an ax over getting fired the year before from another franchise. It's classless.

I'm sure black people everywhere will be delighted and relieved to hear that you have no beef with them.Tell me is your entire life dedicated only to your job? Do you have no interests, goals or pursuits outside of your job? Do you have no ambitions outside of your job? As much as the ball media and fans love players who are obsessed with basketball (see kobe) it's not actually healthy and people are entitled to do whatever they like in their free time. Would you prefer it if they were kept in cases and only let out to compete, like back in the good old days of gladiators?

Doc did a nice thing- he let a guy who put up with constant **** for a season come back and essentially tell all those people '**** you' - and fair enough (I was one of those people who blasted Woody) - though since you think these athletes should only be allowed to do what you want them too, you probably think they should also just shut up and take abuse too.