gunsnewing wrote:I like Danny Green but Phil likes guards who create like Svhed and Galloway. Green is a good spot up shooter whereas Carrol and Butler to an extent create plays off the dribble

Phil has had guys like Kerr, Rick Fox, Jud Buechler, Brian Shaw etc. who weren't creative off the dribble. The important thing about Green is that he's proven that he can move without the ball and pass with a system. His D is also underrated--he averaged a block and a steal a game as a wing! He held his opponents to a PER of 11 this season:http://www.82games.com/1415/1415.HTM

BigDaddyG wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I like Danny Green but Phil likes guards who create like Svhed and Galloway. Green is a good spot up shooter whereas Carrol and Butler to an extent create plays off the dribble

Phil has had guys like Kerr, Rick Fox, Jud Buechler, Brian Shaw etc. who weren't creative off the dribble. The important thing about Green is that he's proven that he can move without the ball and pass with a system. His D is also underrated--he averaged a block and a steal a game as a wing! He held his opponents to a PER of 11 this season:http://www.82games.com/1415/1415.HTM

I think people are greatly underestimating how good Danny Green actually is. He's a very high quality player. This is why I made this thread cuz sometimes people have a particular view of a player that isn't actually true. Danny Green is a top player in this Free Agent Market.

Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
1   DeA. Jordan	  C   26  LAC  82  2820  21.0  .638  .007  .882  16.2  32.4  24.5  3.2   1.5  5.4  12.8  13.6  7.4  5.4  12.8  .217    4.3
2   Jimmy Butler  SG  25  CHI  65  2513  21.3  .583  .212  .508  5.1   11.2  8.2   14.4  2.3  1.0  7.7   21.6  8.2  3.0  11.2  .214    4.2
3   Kawhi Leonard SF  23  SAS  64  2033  22.0  .567  .234  .307  4.8   20.6  12.9  13.0  3.7  1.8  9.4   23.0  4.2  4.4  8.6   .204    4.1
4   Bran. Wright  PF  27  TOT  75  1449	 20.4  .660  .008  .309  9.6   14.7  12.1  4.4   1.7  5.1  7.6   13.6  4.3  1.8  6.1   .202    2.0
5   M. Gasol	  C   30  MEM  81  2687  21.7  .558  .016  .410  4.9   21.8  13.4  19.7  1.4  4.0  12.2  24.6  5.5  4.7  10.2  .182    4.6
6   M. Muscala	  PF  23  ATL  40  502   18.0  .608  .146  .166  12.2  14.8  13.5  8.0   1.6  3.2  11.5  16.7  1.2  0.7  1.9   .179    0.5
7   P. Millsap	  PF  29  ATL  73  2390  20.1  .565  .232  .362  6.9   20.0  13.6  15.4  2.8  2.4  13.3  23.8  4.0  4.3  8.3   .167    3.7
8   A. Baynes	  C   28  SAS  70  1122  15.9  .618  .012  .318  11.2  20.7  16.1  4.9   0.7  1.5  14.8  17.8  2.3  1.6  3.9   .166    0.3
9   L. Aldridge	  PF  29  POR  71  2512  22.8  .528  .074  .256  7.7   22.9  15.5  9.2   1.0  1.9  7.2   30.2  4.9  3.7  8.6   .165    1.4
10  K. Love	  PF  26  CLE  75  2532  18.8  .562  .412  .337  6.5   26.3  16.6  10.7  1.0  1.2  10.0  21.7  5.8  2.9  8.7   .165    2.5
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
11  Danny Green	  SG  27  SAS  81  2312  16.5  .596  .619  .172  2.7   13.9  8.4   10.3  2.2  2.8  10.5  17.5  4.0  3.9  7.8   .163    4.1
12  Dray. Green	  SF  24  GSW  79  2490  16.4  .540  .430  .261  5.1   22.4  14.0  16.1  2.4  2.9  13.5  17.2  3.3  5.2  8.5   .163    4.4
13  A. Ajinca	  C   26  NOP  68  957   19.9  .595  .000  .301  12.4  25.0  18.7  8.2   1.2  4.0  15.6  21.1  1.9  1.2  3.2   .159    0.5
14  Brook Lopez	  C   26  BRK  72  2100  22.7  .558  .010  .278  11.5  17.1  14.3  4.5   1.1  4.8  8.6   26.3  4.7  2.2  7.0   .159    1.1
15  B. Biyombo	  C   22  CHO  64  1243  15.2  .578  .000  .941  13.7  22.6  18.0  2.0   0.7  6.3  16.5  11.6  1.8  2.2  4.0   .155    0.5
16  D. Carroll	  SF  28  ATL  70  2189  15.9  .603  .466  .277  5.3   13.8  9.7   8.3   2.2  0.7  9.3   16.9  4.3  2.8  7.0   .154    2.7
17  G. Monroe	  PF  24  DET  69  2137  21.2  .549  .000  .394  11.2  25.1  17.9  11.7  1.9  1.3  13.0  23.9  4.0  2.8  6.8   .153    2.1
18  A. Morrow	  SG  29  OKC  74  1806  14.8  .604  .528  .145  2.4   9.1   5.8   5.2   1.5  0.5  5.5   16.5  4.4  1.2  5.7   .151    1.2
19  R. Lopez	  C   26  POR  59  1638  16.2  .574  .002  .291  12.7  13.1  12.9  5.1   0.5  3.7  12.9  15.5  3.2  1.9  5.1   .150    1.7
20  C. Joseph	  PG  23  SAS  79  1444  15.5  .564  .107  .348  3.5   11.4  7.5   19.7  1.6  0.9  12.4  17.0  2.7  1.8  4.5   .149    1.0
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
21  Tri Thompson  PF  23  CLE  82  2194  15.6  .580  .000  .508  14.5  19.7  17.2  2.7   0.8  2.2  12.2  14.0  4.7  2.1  6.8   .148    0.8
22  W. Matthews	  SG  28  POR  60  2024  16.1  .586  .592  .193  2.1   9.5   5.9   10.8  1.9  0.4  9.0   19.8  4.0  2.2  6.2   .147    3.0
23  Enes Kanter	  C   22  TOT  75  2135  20.3  .564  .048  .252  14.6  20.5  17.6  4.8   0.9  1.1  12.3  24.7  4.3  2.1  6.4   .145   -0.1
24  Jon. Jerebko  PF  27  TOT  75  1230  15.0  .549  .369  .174  8.0   17.2  12.5  9.0   1.9  1.1  9.7   16.2  2.0  1.4  3.5   .135    0.9
25  K. Middleton  PF  23  MIL  79  2378  15.6  .563  .308  .180  2.3   14.3  8.4   12.7  2.6  0.4  10.8  19.9  3.2  3.5  6.7   .135    2.0
26  Alexey Shved  SG  26  TOT  42  767   19.5  .541  .415  .448  3.3   11.7  7.3   25.7  2.0  0.6  10.7  26.3  1.7  0.5  2.2   .135    0.5
27  Brandon Bass  PF  29  BOS  82  1929  16.3  .557  .047  .313  7.8   14.9  11.3  8.6   1.1  1.3  9.6   19.5  3.4  1.9  5.3   .132    0.7
28  Dorell Wright SF  29  POR  48  592   13.4  .525  .568  .221  2.6   17.2  10.0  10.2  1.7  1.3  7.9   17.1  0.7  0.8  1.6   .128    0.4
29  Lavoy Allen   PF  25  IND  63  1070  14.9  .493  .000  .157  12.8  20.5  16.7  10.9  0.7  3.1  11.1  15.2  1.3  1.6  2.8   .127    0.8
30  Amir Johnson  PF  27  TOR  75  1979  15.4  .603  .089  .249  9.3   17.3  13.3  9.4   1.1  2.4  16.0  15.7  3.5  1.6  5.1   .124    1.9
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
31  Goran Dragic  PG  28  TOT  78  2640  17.4  .577  .258  .234  3.5   8.2   5.9   22.8  1.5  0.5  13.5  21.8  5.4  1.4  6.8   .123    2.1
32  Joel Freeland C   27  POR  48  617   12.2  .522  .000  .166  11.0  21.9  16.6  3.8   0.7  2.7  12.4  13.4  0.6  0.9  1.6   .122    0.0
33  Tha Sefolosha SF  30  ATL  52  976   13.8  .506  .313  .233  6.4   19.3  13.1  11.2  2.8  1.8  12.2  14.6  0.8  1.7  2.5   .121    0.8
34  Omer Asik	  C   28  NOP  76  1982  15.5  .545  .000  .546  14.0  28.8  21.4  5.4   0.8  2.1  15.7  14.0  2.8  2.2  5.0   .120    0.6
35  Kosta Koufos  C   25  MEM  81  1348  14.2  .530  .000  .237  10.3  25.8  18.1  4.3   1.1  3.9  14.9  15.8  0.8  2.5  3.3   .118    0.2
36  Jae Crowder   SF  24  TOT  82  1647  13.9  .517  .382  .259  4.7   14.9  9.7   8.6   2.2  1.2  7.5   17.5  1.9  2.0  3.9   .113    1.1
37  Cole Aldrich  C   26  NYK  61  976   18.1  .513  .000  .213  11.6  28.9  20.0  13.3  2.0  5.5  15.2  18.3  0.8  1.4  2.2   .107    0.7
38  Bran Knight	  PG  23  TOT  63  2035  17.1  .543  .361  .251  1.6   12.0  6.8   27.4  2.3  0.4  16.1  25.9  2.0  2.5  4.5   .106    1.6
39  Reg Jackson	  PG  24  TOT  77  2268  17.2  .511  .242  .219  2.6   12.9  7.8   34.8  1.4  0.3  14.6  24.6  3.3  1.7  4.9   .104    1.6
40  Mar Belinelli SG  28  SAS  62  1388  12.4  .553  .489  .211  2.2   10.5  6.4   10.3  1.1  0.2  10.6  18.8  1.5  1.4  2.9   .100    0.5
41  Tobias Harris SF  22  ORL  68  2369  16.7  .551  .252  .258  3.4   17.3  10.3  8.8   1.5  1.2  9.8   22.5  3.0  1.8  4.8   .098    1.0

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Enes Kanter Value over Replacement Player: -0.1! Ouch!

His recent good play wasn't enough to make up for an entire season.
I know Monroe isn't a sexy option but he isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be. He's got solid numbers and I think he was misused in Detroit.

good player inside of 3 feet. Outside? Not so much.

You say that like it's a bad thing. In the Triangle we need a player who can score at a good clip inside and pass the ball at a high level. We actually don't need Monroe to be a great shooter from distance.

3+ feet is not distance.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Enes Kanter Value over Replacement Player: -0.1! Ouch!

His recent good play wasn't enough to make up for an entire season.
I know Monroe isn't a sexy option but he isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be. He's got solid numbers and I think he was misused in Detroit.

good player inside of 3 feet. Outside? Not so much.

You say that like it's a bad thing. In the Triangle we need a player who can score at a good clip inside and pass the ball at a high level. We actually don't need Monroe to be a great shooter from distance.

3+ feet is not distance.

I still don't understand your point. We don't need Monroe to score away from the basket. We need him to get low position and help to create space between the perimeter players and him. That will make the offense work much better. He's a very capable passer and rebounder. I fail to see your point in this regard. Why do you think I posted the video of Bynum? Most of his scoring was right in the paint, exactly where Monroe is effective.

if monroe was a super efficient down low then we could live with him not being a stretch. However, he is not super efficient there and happens to also take a lot of shots beyond 3 feet which he is awful at.

Don't judge players only by how they play on other teams in completely different offenses. This system is completely different than the one Monroe plays in. His mere presence close to the basket will draw attention defensively and that will create more openings for the perimeter players. The hopeful improvement of our perimeter players will help him as well. It's a system that should really enhance his strengths.

At the least, if we do draft OK4, I could see Bynum as a mentor for him and how to execute in the Triangle
Not sure if is career is done but for a BIG like OK4, a good development coach would be Bynum

He is still quite young but has had multiple surguries already but he could certainly help as a mentor, whether as a player or develoment coach if we land OK4

PER 25 TS% .611 WS/48 200

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Kanter's play with OKC in 26 games.

PER 25 TS% .611 WS/48 200

Those numbers are impressive, tho he also wasn't very good defensively. Kanter wouldn't solve our pressing need for a defensive big. We also have to keep in mind his very short stint. It could be that he's able to play like this for an entire season but chances are he'll come down from those numbers. The other big question is how much would it take to pry him away from OKC?

I think 4 years 64mm a no trade clause and a 10mm trade kicker to boot would do it. I think we can get two defensive bigs from this draft. Also hes the youngest guy on the list.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Kanter's play with OKC in 26 games.

PER 25 TS% .611 WS/48 200

Those numbers are impressive, tho he also wasn't very good defensively. Kanter wouldn't solve our pressing need for a defensive big. We also have to keep in mind his very short stint. It could be that he's able to play like this for an entire season but chances are he'll come down from those numbers. The other big question is how much would it take to pry him away from OKC?

I think 4 years 64mm a no trade clause and a 10mm trade kicker to boot would do it. I think we can get two defensive bigs from this draft. Also hes the youngest guy on the list.

Kanter's youth makes him one of the better value's. I'm pretty sure the Knicks noticed his performance in OKC. It's not something you'd tend to ignore when you're already looking at every top FA big. One positive in Kanter's favor is that he's versatile. He could play next to Towns or even OK4, even tho he's not a shot blocker.

I really think most fans and media are way too pessimistic given the opportunity this team has to actually sign a couple of the quality FA's that will be available. In addition to our pick adding 2-3 impactful players from the WS/48 list above, like Kanter, would have a positive impact on this roster. These are not players who are just along for the ride. They're way above average production and impactful players.

I think if we got Kanter and Towns--we couldve been in the ECF next year with some additional add in moves. A frontline of Kanter Towns and Carmelo would be very tough in the east. You add in some additional guards some shot blocking--we wouldnt have to wait five years or play some kind of system--we'd just beat teams playing good ball.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Enes Kanter Value over Replacement Player: -0.1! Ouch!

His recent good play wasn't enough to make up for an entire season.
I know Monroe isn't a sexy option but he isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be. He's got solid numbers and I think he was misused in Detroit.

good player inside of 3 feet. Outside? Not so much.

You say that like it's a bad thing. In the Triangle we need a player who can score at a good clip inside and pass the ball at a high level. We actually don't need Monroe to be a great shooter from distance.

3+ feet is not distance.

I still don't understand your point. We don't need Monroe to score away from the basket. We need him to get low position and help to create space between the perimeter players and him. That will make the offense work much better. He's a very capable passer and rebounder. I fail to see your point in this regard. Why do you think I posted the video of Bynum? Most of his scoring was right in the paint, exactly where Monroe is effective.

if monroe was a super efficient down low then we could live with him not being a stretch. However, he is not super efficient there and happens to also take a lot of shots beyond 3 feet which he is awful at.

For one thing how he has played in Detroit will not be who he plays here in NY. If he was on this team he would be put in a position to excel and be more efficient. He'd end up taking fewer shots outside of his sweet spot. That's how this offense works with a low post big. It's not just his shots but how he impacts the offense as a whole. We need a low post option who can hold his place down low and keep the defense stretched. Our spacing is wrong without a dependable low post threat.

Don't judge players only by how they play on other teams in completely different offenses. This system is completely different than the one Monroe plays in. His mere presence close to the basket will draw attention defensively and that will create more openings for the perimeter players. The hopeful improvement of our perimeter players will help him as well. It's a system that should really enhance his strengths.

Maybe its a system that will not enhance him (too many assumptions) ... He is decent but not max good IMHO. I would not be pissed if we got him but not excited.