Splat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Most of these posts offer only negativity with zero content on how to improve the team. Some of them are like book report size but still say nothing. If there is no content on how to fix the Knicks the post is just a bunch of words put together that equal zero.

I don't think that's true at all. I think many people have offered up ways to improve the team, but again, if it doesn't fit your narrative of what you believe/think/feel about the Knicks, then you seem to walk on by them. Also I think you need to make a distinction between negativity ( some people are shifting past basketball issues at times to be fair) and when some people simply shut down your ideas/scenarios.

I don't think it's very complicated. Many fans want Phil Jackson to establish a front office legacy situation where he can hand off the team to nice young talented front office type who can offer the Knicks stability and excellence for 10-15-20-25 years. Many fans want the Knicks to stop dumping their draft picks and stop taking in bad contracts for quick fix attempts. Many fans believe a true rebuild for long lasting success will take time, and that the Knicks may miss on some picks and players, but if they hold the course, over time, that good things can happen. Many fans believe you can build through the draft, that it is the primary way to get better and that is simply a process that takes time, NBA history has shown this again and again and again.

You want to say, draft this guy and sign this guy and do this and do that, as if all those ducks will absolutely line up in a row.

Lots of Knicks fans just want to say, Let's see where we are at draft time when the dust has settled, we know where we are picking, the NCAA tournament is over and we have a better picture of the draft landscape, then we just take the best player available given the information known at the given time and place and hope for the best.

Would it be nice to get Okafor? Sure. Is it absolute? No. But somehow you treat it as almost absolute. Is it negative to tell you that odds are that the Knicks won't get Okafor? Well I've been saying it to you for months, you don't seem to care.

"Fixing" the Knicks will need something that Dolan and many fans haven't done before - Be patient. See and understand that it could take years, even some hard years to start, and that building assets takes time, developing players takes time and shortcuts don't help you. The "shortcut" approach you advocate is what makes a GM be forced by his owner to surround Anthony Davis as fast as possible with help to try to contend instead of just building slowly and surely. Or Dan Gilbert demanding the Deng and Hawes trade, which didn't move the needle for Cleveland but sapped them of assets they could have used to get a pivot they need now.

Fixing the team means patience. Taking the time to build. Nothing you suggest implies you have this patience. You want a mythical two year reload that essentially violates current market values and principles and tosses out any notion of the non Knicks GM and front office's sense of self preservation.

Mine the 2nd round. Dig hard with UDFA. Bolster the front office with analytics experts. Rearm the medical staff. Expand international scouting. Look for hidden values on stocked rosters.

Plenty of ideas to improve the Knicks are mentioned all the time, they just don't move your needle because they aren't short cut induced trade rape scenarios you like to push so much.

Well when you give me a list of players you like from FA to the draft maybe a few prospects to keep in mind in case we pick up a late 1 or some 2's etc.. maybe a few opportunisic players we could swipe off of someone bench. Unless you can put names in there and explain why they might fit--this is the same negative diatribe as the last 30 that has the same story with no true meaning to it. And not trying to break your cahones--but too many people saying dont do this that you cant do that this--but they seem to not have any plan of their own that includes names.

Oh God Briggs, you are so FOS. The guy gave you a thoughtful reply and all you can do is shovel a load of bullcrap back at him. You get off easy with some here because you get labeled as a diligent, dedicated Knicks fan because you are constantly churning out proposals. That's enough to blind some to the reality as Triple puts it it that it is mostly trade rape scenarios. Those scenarios are your opiate to avoid dealing with reality.

Triple just laid out to you why some people are fed up and he is 100% right about this: If other peoples' version of the truth don't line up with yours, you dodge and obsfucate. You really can't handle the truth that this franchise is fukked until they take a better approach. In the end, you are just another apologist for a broken regime and you spend most of your time in fantasyland trying to concoct band-aid fixes that won't work.

Sorry, I'm being harsh, but no harsher than you were to Triple who treated you nicely while being in total disagreement with you.

Your complaint that those you disagree with are merely engaged in negative diatribes is full-on baby talk BS. Get a clue. The situation is negative. Realists call it for what they see it. Deal with it or not, but drop the phoney baloney labels if you can't deal with it.

Otherwise, you just become another palace rat who licks the corrupt king's feet. If you love your Knicks kingdom so much and your only defense is this kind of childish logic, then you're on the same level as Fishmike and Jrod. I thought you were functioning on a more sophisticated level, but in reality you're just smoke and mirrors with your trade proposals, but in your heart you seem to be just as recalcitrant to change and bent out of shape at those who agitate for it. Pointing fingers and stomping your feet at threads and calling them negative without anything more substantive to say is beyond lame.

Triple doesn't owe you a list of names. Are you nuts? That's your way of coping. You don't get to tell people how to frame the debate. So don't try and shut people down because they don't engage in your trade fantasies.

I'm fine with your trade ideas. I never said you shouldn't do them. Yes, I think it is your way of killing time and pretty much a waste of time, but I'm cool with it if it makes you content to do so. But knock off the BS responses and pretend you're claiming higher ground. Negativity in your eyes is like harsh medicine in others' eyes. It is necessary to get better. Deal with it or not, but don't play the I'm a better fan card which is what you're actually doing here. It is really offensive.

How many of Briggs's suggestions have worked out, come to reality

Yet he questions the probability and validity others have suggested

Or what they feel is highly unlikely to happen

Why do so many posters play barbie dolls with his

Hobbit and Lord of The Rings type posts

One of the reasons I've suggested to him, provide more intel

On the NBA Salary Cap, especially since it will look

Quite different in a few yrs and could change the landscape of the NBA for yrs to come

Because he has such time to kill, but some posters here as I've found out

Are lazy and have no interests of contributing to dialogue to broaden the scope of conversation

To inform about the changing league standards and policies affecting teams

Instead what appears to be the case, Briggs along with others hop on NBA 2k15

Run the field with Stephen Curry, Lebron, Ant Davis, Melo, Jimmy Butler

Because they have an inflated cap feature in the game and start drumming up

Inception type moves on a msg brd forum for the team they root for

Spend more time on Twitter talking with Larry Coon instead of NBA Hollywood Shuffling Rosters

Join live chats with Chad Ford instead of Billboarding what Berman quoted Dragic saying about our team

Watch more Knick games instead of watching every game of

Some obscure College prospect we'll have no shot of drafting

ESPN Fantasy, Real GM Trade Checker, Fan Duel, Yahoo Fantasy

Are simply making the NBA community dumber and dumber as seasons go by

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Most of these posts offer only negativity with zero content on how to improve the team. Some of them are like book report size but still say nothing. If there is no content on how to fix the Knicks the post is just a bunch of words put together that equal zero.

I don't think that's true at all. I think many people have offered up ways to improve the team, but again, if it doesn't fit your narrative of what you believe/think/feel about the Knicks, then you seem to walk on by them. Also I think you need to make a distinction between negativity ( some people are shifting past basketball issues at times to be fair) and when some people simply shut down your ideas/scenarios.

I don't think it's very complicated. Many fans want Phil Jackson to establish a front office legacy situation where he can hand off the team to nice young talented front office type who can offer the Knicks stability and excellence for 10-15-20-25 years. Many fans want the Knicks to stop dumping their draft picks and stop taking in bad contracts for quick fix attempts. Many fans believe a true rebuild for long lasting success will take time, and that the Knicks may miss on some picks and players, but if they hold the course, over time, that good things can happen. Many fans believe you can build through the draft, that it is the primary way to get better and that is simply a process that takes time, NBA history has shown this again and again and again.

You want to say, draft this guy and sign this guy and do this and do that, as if all those ducks will absolutely line up in a row.

Lots of Knicks fans just want to say, Let's see where we are at draft time when the dust has settled, we know where we are picking, the NCAA tournament is over and we have a better picture of the draft landscape, then we just take the best player available given the information known at the given time and place and hope for the best.

Would it be nice to get Okafor? Sure. Is it absolute? No. But somehow you treat it as almost absolute. Is it negative to tell you that odds are that the Knicks won't get Okafor? Well I've been saying it to you for months, you don't seem to care.

"Fixing" the Knicks will need something that Dolan and many fans haven't done before - Be patient. See and understand that it could take years, even some hard years to start, and that building assets takes time, developing players takes time and shortcuts don't help you. The "shortcut" approach you advocate is what makes a GM be forced by his owner to surround Anthony Davis as fast as possible with help to try to contend instead of just building slowly and surely. Or Dan Gilbert demanding the Deng and Hawes trade, which didn't move the needle for Cleveland but sapped them of assets they could have used to get a pivot they need now.

Fixing the team means patience. Taking the time to build. Nothing you suggest implies you have this patience. You want a mythical two year reload that essentially violates current market values and principles and tosses out any notion of the non Knicks GM and front office's sense of self preservation.

Mine the 2nd round. Dig hard with UDFA. Bolster the front office with analytics experts. Rearm the medical staff. Expand international scouting. Look for hidden values on stocked rosters.

Plenty of ideas to improve the Knicks are mentioned all the time, they just don't move your needle because they aren't short cut induced trade rape scenarios you like to push so much.

Great post. Been saying the same for years while everyone feels we are a couple irrelevant moves away from 54 wins

mreinman wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Well when you give me a list of players you like from FA to the draft maybe a few prospects to keep in mind in case we pick up a late 1 or some 2's etc.. maybe a few opportunisic players we could swipe off of someone bench. Unless you can put names in there and explain why they might fit--this is the same negative diatribe as the last 30 that has the same story with no true meaning to it. And not trying to break your cahones--but too many people saying dont do this that you cant do that this--but they seem to not have any plan of their own that includes names.

Briggs,

The reason most people here don't try to project what the NBA draft will look like is that there is no clear picture of where current NBA teams will pick and there is no clear landscape now of where players will be perceived, ranked and how they will do in the NCAA tournament. Things like injuries, guys who choose to stay another year in school, how the workout/interview process ends up, changes in NBA front offices or firings and hirings, all these things start to create different factors in the next draft that simply cannot be predicted now.

Do I have opinions on what I've seen on Okafor and Towns and Stein and Mundiay and such now? Sure. Could I start projecting what is going to happen in the late first round? Sure. Or the 2nd round? Sure. But what is the point ( in my eyes) when so much is still unsettled.

As for guys off of current NBA rosters, I'd be happy to talk about that during the trade deadline phase, where you get an idea of who is actually on the block and who is separating from the pack in terms of their current season.
To you, a plan is to take bad contracts and sell off future picks (things the Knicks have done in the past and have hurt them) so they can get back into the late first round or 2nd, to take a pick you claim will be an absolute no fail type stunner. When the history of the league and draft have shown that the pan out rate, much less the find a star rate, in that part of the draft is pretty dismal.

So, to you, I'm some kind of negative dirtbag because I won't project a name or names when I don't know where the Knicks will pick and how the draft landscape might change until we actually get closer to the draft? That I won't push names right now when it's not clear who might be on the trade block in the current NBA?
I talk about plenty of names, plenty of league concepts, plenty of game concepts, but again, you don't care when it doesn't fit your own narrative.

You should just come clean Briggs, you just don't like me. I airhole your trade rape scenarios and I do it in detail. I point out the inconsistencies in your premises. I highlight how what you push opposes market forces, current team building strategy and modern NBA history.

Lt. Sobel does not hate Easy Company, Briggs, he just hates you.

Briggs, if it's any consolation, there is one huge Knicks fan that thinks like you do. His name is James Dolan. He loves making trades that go for the splashy name that takes on some other teams' problem and make it a Knicks problem. He likes to give up future picks and take on bad contracts for a short term shot in the dark long shot fix attempt. He ignores league trends and market forces as well. And like you, he might even start projecting into a draft where none of us know where a lot of it will shake out or where teams might be picking. Can you get a range or a set of ranges? Sure, but with a draft lottery system, the variables are too wide right now to actually give a realistic projection.

It's ok that you don't like me on a personal level Briggs. But because you don't like me doesn't mean I'm wrong. The difference between us isn't you are the "positive one" and I am the "negative one", the difference is I'm the only one between us who is able to make that distinction.

Bang! Very well stated.

I will trade you that post for 2 bags of pretzels and 2 first drafts of Heineken.

BRIGGS wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Well when you give me a list of players you like from FA to the draft maybe a few prospects to keep in mind in case we pick up a late 1 or some 2's etc.. maybe a few opportunisic players we could swipe off of someone bench. Unless you can put names in there and explain why they might fit--this is the same negative diatribe as the last 30 that has the same story with no true meaning to it. And not trying to break your cahones--but too many people saying dont do this that you cant do that this--but they seem to not have any plan of their own that includes names.

Briggs,

The reason most people here don't try to project what the NBA draft will look like is that there is no clear picture of where current NBA teams will pick and there is no clear landscape now of where players will be perceived, ranked and how they will do in the NCAA tournament. Things like injuries, guys who choose to stay another year in school, how the workout/interview process ends up, changes in NBA front offices or firings and hirings, all these things start to create different factors in the next draft that simply cannot be predicted now.

Do I have opinions on what I've seen on Okafor and Towns and Stein and Mundiay and such now? Sure. Could I start projecting what is going to happen in the late first round? Sure. Or the 2nd round? Sure. But what is the point ( in my eyes) when so much is still unsettled.

As for guys off of current NBA rosters, I'd be happy to talk about that during the trade deadline phase, where you get an idea of who is actually on the block and who is separating from the pack in terms of their current season.
To you, a plan is to take bad contracts and sell off future picks (things the Knicks have done in the past and have hurt them) so they can get back into the late first round or 2nd, to take a pick you claim will be an absolute no fail type stunner. When the history of the league and draft have shown that the pan out rate, much less the find a star rate, in that part of the draft is pretty dismal.

So, to you, I'm some kind of negative dirtbag because I won't project a name or names when I don't know where the Knicks will pick and how the draft landscape might change until we actually get closer to the draft? That I won't push names right now when it's not clear who might be on the trade block in the current NBA?
I talk about plenty of names, plenty of league concepts, plenty of game concepts, but again, you don't care when it doesn't fit your own narrative.

You should just come clean Briggs, you just don't like me. I airhole your trade rape scenarios and I do it in detail. I point out the inconsistencies in your premises. I highlight how what you push opposes market forces, current team building strategy and modern NBA history.

Lt. Sobel does not hate Easy Company, Briggs, he just hates you.

Briggs, if it's any consolation, there is one huge Knicks fan that thinks like you do. His name is James Dolan. He loves making trades that go for the splashy name that takes on some other teams' problem and make it a Knicks problem. He likes to give up future picks and take on bad contracts for a short term shot in the dark long shot fix attempt. He ignores league trends and market forces as well. And like you, he might even start projecting into a draft where none of us know where a lot of it will shake out or where teams might be picking. Can you get a range or a set of ranges? Sure, but with a draft lottery system, the variables are too wide right now to actually give a realistic projection.

It's ok that you don't like me on a personal level Briggs. But because you don't like me doesn't mean I'm wrong. The difference between us isn't you are the "positive one" and I am the "negative one", the difference is I'm the only one between us who is able to make that distinction.

Oh Jees calm down Francis. The word hate is just a tad strong don't ya think? I don't hate anyone--this is a message board?????? We just talk about the knicks here. You are the one that is crtical towards me--I say something back and its "hate". I'm not like that dude and I have a 13 year posting history to prove it.

Well when other people contribute positively--it seems like Melo is one nice piece? He single handidly kept us in that game last night 1st half--without him were down 20+ Thats what team is---5-8 guys contributing. It's much easier to work with pieces already here than trying to acquire new one's. Shane Larkin also showed that he can be a nice back up--really he has all season. Not every player is going to be a star but role players collective contribution+star play.

BRIGGS wrote:Talking back about Melo and winning.

Well when other people contribute positively--it seems like Melo is one nice piece? He single handidly kept us in that game last night 1st half--without him were down 20+ Thats what team is---5-8 guys contributing. It's much easier to work with pieces already here than trying to acquire new one's. Shane Larkin also showed that he can be a nice back up--really he has all season. Not every player is going to be a star but role players collective contribution+star play.

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Talking back about Melo and winning.

Well when other people contribute positively--it seems like Melo is one nice piece? He single handidly kept us in that game last night 1st half--without him were down 20+ Thats what team is---5-8 guys contributing. It's much easier to work with pieces already here than trying to acquire new one's. Shane Larkin also showed that he can be a nice back up--really he has all season. Not every player is going to be a star but role players collective contribution+star play.

You seem to confound positivity with keeping Melo. There's no logical necessity to confounding the two though. It also seems highly unlikely that "it's much easier to work with the pieces already here" when the current pieces are a .160 team and you're trying to build a contender than it is to "acquire new ones"

Right now the Knicks need to find a way to a way to limit Melo to 30 minutes an thats it. He should be given tonight's game off. We have made mistakes trading Tyson Chandler David Lee Zach Randdolph --we dont make good trades. melo is a guy we can work with. His NCAA team won a NC team with him as the main guy as a freshmen and he had 10 consecutive winning seasons with a % close to .600. The problem with the current Knicks was a storm of bad coaching poor contributions mainly from almost every guard we have--poor play from Dalembart who could not replacce Chandler Bargnani injury ---we just didnt click--not Melos fault. Someone made a good point comparing this season to when we had Bernard King and he got hurt--when we ended up with ewing. Now Melo is not BK but hes reasonably close. Its imperative now to accept that we are 22 agmes under .500 and we need to rest Melo for the good of the future.

This has nothing to do with the Knicks

And what teams currently have to contend with under the new CBA

If the climate was the same as 10yrs ago maybe you'd have a point here but you don't

It's mentally exhausting seeing posters reach back to Carmelo's Denver days and project them

Forward as a Knick as Melo heads towards the downside of his career

For the record the Bargnani trade didn't necessarily affect the now

Nor the past but it more than likely affects the future

Had we held on to Novak and Camby we weren't going to win with them either

Those aren't the players you surround Melo with either

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Talking back about Melo and winning.

Well when other people contribute positively--it seems like Melo is one nice piece? He single handidly kept us in that game last night 1st half--without him were down 20+ Thats what team is---5-8 guys contributing. It's much easier to work with pieces already here than trying to acquire new one's. Shane Larkin also showed that he can be a nice back up--really he has all season. Not every player is going to be a star but role players collective contribution+star play.

You seem to confound positivity with keeping Melo. There's no logical necessity to confounding the two though. It also seems highly unlikely that "it's much easier to work with the pieces already here" when the current pieces are a .160 team and you're trying to build a contender than it is to "acquire new ones"

Right now the Knicks need to find a way to a way to limit Melo to 30 minutes an thats it. He should be given tonight's game off. We have made mistakes trading Tyson Chandler David Lee Zach Randdolph --we dont make good trades. melo is a guy we can work with. His NCAA team won a NC team with him as the main guy as a freshmen and he had 10 consecutive winning seasons with a % close to .600. The problem with the current Knicks was a storm of bad coaching poor contributions mainly from almost every guard we have--poor play from Dalembart who could not replacce Chandler Bargnani injury ---we just didnt click--not Melos fault. Someone made a good point comparing this season to when we had Bernard King and he got hurt--when we ended up with ewing. Now Melo is not BK but hes reasonably close. Its imperative now to accept that we are 22 agmes under .500 and we need to rest Melo for the good of the future.

This has nothing to do with the Knicks

And what teams currently have to contend with under the new CBA

If the climate was the same as 10yrs ago maybe you'd have a point here but you don't

It's mentally exhausting seeing posters reach abck to Carmelo's Denver days and project them

Forward as Knick as Melo heads towards the downside of his career

For the record the Bargnani trade didn't necessarily affect the now

Nor the past but it more than likely affects the future

Had we held on to Novak and Camby we weren't going to win with them either

Those aren't the players you surround Melo with either

I disagree. The Knicks only have two other top 10 drafted players on their roster. The team is made up of mid to late first rounders, second rounders, and undrafted guys. There just isn't a lot of talent. If the talent improves the results will improve. Having a guy on your team that has always won when the roster he was on was reasonable is not a bad place to start.

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Talking back about Melo and winning.

Well when other people contribute positively--it seems like Melo is one nice piece? He single handidly kept us in that game last night 1st half--without him were down 20+ Thats what team is---5-8 guys contributing. It's much easier to work with pieces already here than trying to acquire new one's. Shane Larkin also showed that he can be a nice back up--really he has all season. Not every player is going to be a star but role players collective contribution+star play.

You seem to confound positivity with keeping Melo. There's no logical necessity to confounding the two though. It also seems highly unlikely that "it's much easier to work with the pieces already here" when the current pieces are a .160 team and you're trying to build a contender than it is to "acquire new ones"

Right now the Knicks need to find a way to a way to limit Melo to 30 minutes an thats it. He should be given tonight's game off. We have made mistakes trading Tyson Chandler David Lee Zach Randdolph --we dont make good trades. melo is a guy we can work with. His NCAA team won a NC team with him as the main guy as a freshmen and he had 10 consecutive winning seasons with a % close to .600. The problem with the current Knicks was a storm of bad coaching poor contributions mainly from almost every guard we have--poor play from Dalembart who could not replacce Chandler Bargnani injury ---we just didnt click--not Melos fault. Someone made a good point comparing this season to when we had Bernard King and he got hurt--when we ended up with ewing. Now Melo is not BK but hes reasonably close. Its imperative now to accept that we are 22 agmes under .500 and we need to rest Melo for the good of the future.

This has nothing to do with the Knicks

And what teams currently have to contend with under the new CBA

If the climate was the same as 10yrs ago maybe you'd have a point here but you don't

It's mentally exhausting seeing posters reach abck to Carmelo's Denver days and project them

Forward as Knick as Melo heads towards the downside of his career

For the record the Bargnani trade didn't necessarily affect the now

Nor the past but it more than likely affects the future

Had we held on to Novak and Camby we weren't going to win with them either

Those aren't the players you surround Melo with either

I disagree. The Knicks only have two other top 10 drafted players on their roster. The team is made up of mid to late first rounders, second rounders, and undrafted guys. There just isn't a lot of talent. If the talent improves the results will improve. Having a guy on your team that has always won when the roster he was on was reasonable is not a bad place to start.

Then we should have traded Melo for picks

If you're going to go the team full of high top draft picks angle

It's very difficult to acquire said players

Via free agency as teams either hold on to such players

Or they are busts, or they age out, or you have to be really bad

But we did have at one point in time

Felton[high pick], Gallo[high pick], Chandler[1st round], Anthony Randolph[high pick], Douglas[1st round]

With a winning record surrounding Amar'e for half a yr and that wasn't good enough

For some of you

so what trades do you know of that was on the table for Melo that we turned down?

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Talking back about Melo and winning.

Well when other people contribute positively--it seems like Melo is one nice piece? He single handidly kept us in that game last night 1st half--without him were down 20+ Thats what team is---5-8 guys contributing. It's much easier to work with pieces already here than trying to acquire new one's. Shane Larkin also showed that he can be a nice back up--really he has all season. Not every player is going to be a star but role players collective contribution+star play.

You seem to confound positivity with keeping Melo. There's no logical necessity to confounding the two though. It also seems highly unlikely that "it's much easier to work with the pieces already here" when the current pieces are a .160 team and you're trying to build a contender than it is to "acquire new ones"

Right now the Knicks need to find a way to a way to limit Melo to 30 minutes an thats it. He should be given tonight's game off. We have made mistakes trading Tyson Chandler David Lee Zach Randdolph --we dont make good trades. melo is a guy we can work with. His NCAA team won a NC team with him as the main guy as a freshmen and he had 10 consecutive winning seasons with a % close to .600. The problem with the current Knicks was a storm of bad coaching poor contributions mainly from almost every guard we have--poor play from Dalembart who could not replacce Chandler Bargnani injury ---we just didnt click--not Melos fault. Someone made a good point comparing this season to when we had Bernard King and he got hurt--when we ended up with ewing. Now Melo is not BK but hes reasonably close. Its imperative now to accept that we are 22 agmes under .500 and we need to rest Melo for the good of the future.

This has nothing to do with the Knicks

And what teams currently have to contend with under the new CBA

If the climate was the same as 10yrs ago maybe you'd have a point here but you don't

It's mentally exhausting seeing posters reach abck to Carmelo's Denver days and project them

Forward as Knick as Melo heads towards the downside of his career

For the record the Bargnani trade didn't necessarily affect the now

Nor the past but it more than likely affects the future

Had we held on to Novak and Camby we weren't going to win with them either

Those aren't the players you surround Melo with either

I disagree. The Knicks only have two other top 10 drafted players on their roster. The team is made up of mid to late first rounders, second rounders, and undrafted guys. There just isn't a lot of talent. If the talent improves the results will improve. Having a guy on your team that has always won when the roster he was on was reasonable is not a bad place to start.

Then we should have traded Melo for picks

If you're going to go the team full of high top draft picks angle

It's very difficult to acquire said players

Via free agency as teams either hold on to such players

Or they are busts, or they age out, or you have to be really bad

But we did have at one point in time

Felton[high pick], Gallo[high pick], Chandler[1st round], Anthony Randolph[high pick], Douglas[1st round]

With a winning record surrounding Amar'e for half a yr and that wasn't good enough

For some of you

so what trades do you know of that was on the table for Melo that we turned down?

I think he's saying thats the route Phil should have gone, if folks are crying over draft pick position.

I think that was certainly the route that would have been best, I just don't know that we ever had anything on the table.

I don't think that teams were ready to give up valuable picks for him and have to pay him.

All the Butler, Gibson + Mirotic and a number one type talks were so blatantly ridiculous.

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Talking back about Melo and winning.

Well when other people contribute positively--it seems like Melo is one nice piece? He single handidly kept us in that game last night 1st half--without him were down 20+ Thats what team is---5-8 guys contributing. It's much easier to work with pieces already here than trying to acquire new one's. Shane Larkin also showed that he can be a nice back up--really he has all season. Not every player is going to be a star but role players collective contribution+star play.

You seem to confound positivity with keeping Melo. There's no logical necessity to confounding the two though. It also seems highly unlikely that "it's much easier to work with the pieces already here" when the current pieces are a .160 team and you're trying to build a contender than it is to "acquire new ones"

Right now the Knicks need to find a way to a way to limit Melo to 30 minutes an thats it. He should be given tonight's game off. We have made mistakes trading Tyson Chandler David Lee Zach Randdolph --we dont make good trades. melo is a guy we can work with. His NCAA team won a NC team with him as the main guy as a freshmen and he had 10 consecutive winning seasons with a % close to .600. The problem with the current Knicks was a storm of bad coaching poor contributions mainly from almost every guard we have--poor play from Dalembart who could not replacce Chandler Bargnani injury ---we just didnt click--not Melos fault. Someone made a good point comparing this season to when we had Bernard King and he got hurt--when we ended up with ewing. Now Melo is not BK but hes reasonably close. Its imperative now to accept that we are 22 agmes under .500 and we need to rest Melo for the good of the future.

This has nothing to do with the Knicks

And what teams currently have to contend with under the new CBA

If the climate was the same as 10yrs ago maybe you'd have a point here but you don't

It's mentally exhausting seeing posters reach abck to Carmelo's Denver days and project them

Forward as Knick as Melo heads towards the downside of his career

For the record the Bargnani trade didn't necessarily affect the now

Nor the past but it more than likely affects the future

Had we held on to Novak and Camby we weren't going to win with them either

Those aren't the players you surround Melo with either

I disagree. The Knicks only have two other top 10 drafted players on their roster. The team is made up of mid to late first rounders, second rounders, and undrafted guys. There just isn't a lot of talent. If the talent improves the results will improve. Having a guy on your team that has always won when the roster he was on was reasonable is not a bad place to start.

Then we should have traded Melo for picks

If you're going to go the team full of high top draft picks angle

It's very difficult to acquire said players

Via free agency as teams either hold on to such players

Or they are busts, or they age out, or you have to be really bad

But we did have at one point in time

Felton[high pick], Gallo[high pick], Chandler[1st round], Anthony Randolph[high pick], Douglas[1st round]

With a winning record surrounding Amar'e for half a yr and that wasn't good enough

For some of you

so what trades do you know of that was on the table for Melo that we turned down?

I think he's saying thats the route Phil should have gone, if folks are crying over draft pick position.

I think that was certainly the route that would have been best, I just don't know that we ever had anything on the table.

I don't think that teams were ready to give up valuable picks for him and have to pay him.

All the Butler, Gibson + Mirotic and a number one type talks were so blatantly ridiculous.