If you can score at a nice clip and 50+% and rebound at a clip he is now--there cant be many complaints.

BRIGGS wrote:Amare is among the leaders in rebounds per 48 minutes

If you can score at a nice clip and 50+% and rebound at a clip he is now--there cant be many complaints.

Let's just hope he stays healthy. I think there is no question he still has skills and can contribute a lot to this team. The real issue is can he hold up? How many games will be need to sit/miss?

As long as he doesn't suffer another setback we should get a lot out of him.

BRIGGS wrote:Amare is among the leaders in rebounds per 48 minutes

If you can score at a nice clip and 50+% and rebound at a clip he is now--there cant be many complaints.

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:How many 3's do you see Tim Duncan taking--I think hes a pretty good PF. There has been no team with a dominant three pt shooting stretch 4 to win a title. And before u say Dirk take a look at how many 3's he does not shoot.

Do you really want to go here Briggs?

Take away from Tim Duncan

- His elite fundamentals and footwork
- His wide ranging offensive game
- His high basketball IQ
- His humility with age to push for more efficiency and accept what he can't do well anymore with age
- His passing ability
- His ability to score with his back to the basket
- His ability to defend period.
- His willingness to bang it out, when needed, in the post
And on and on and on, over the list of things that Duncan does and STAT doesn't or that Duncan does well and STAT does not,

Then yes, if you robbed Tim Duncan of all those skills and gifts and high IQ, if you sapped him of that, learning to shoot a three pointer at a league average rate ( or above ideally) would help his team immensely.

While fishmike went on the offensive, he seemed to ignore a key issue.

In the Triangle Offense, FLOOR SPACING IS ESSENTIAL TO RUNNING THE OFFENSE. A legit Stretch 4 spaces the floor naturally.

What's more likely? That STAT will suddenly fix his shoddy low post fundamentals? That he will learn to play above the rim on defense? That he will suddenly figure out how to use his timing better and how to read a defense?

Or do you think on that list of things he doesn't do or doesn't do well, he could sit in the gym in the offseason with a shooting coach and launch 2000 three point shots a day?

Suggesting that several years ago, that STAT could have added a three point shot to his offensive game, is not crazy. It's not even "dumb ****" as some would call it. It's actually one of the few things that could practically change in STATs game with work that he could pull off ( Nice time he had training with Olajuwon. How much of that Dream training came across in his game the last few years?) And ever notice players working on other aspects of their game as they get older and get some injuries. Ever see players talk about that in the media? But hey, for me to suggest STAT to do that, expand his skill set with age and injury bearing down on him, that's some crazy talk right there.

Patrick Patterson isn't a complete player, not even close. But 2PAT can shoot the three ball at a high clip, which gives him value to his team and across the league. Think about that, there are guys out there who never had STATs early career success, will never reach his talent level and are still carving out a NBA career because they do one specific thing well ( hit threes)

You know what would make a killer reality show? It would be Fishmike coaching youth basketball and all the hilarity that ensues when some of those 9 year old kids show up and talk to "coach" about how they worked all summer on doing better on aspects of their game. Cause Coach Fishmike ain't having none of that.

I was watching a great 4 play last night Lamarcus Aldridge who also happens to be a free agent. Another great 4 who does not shoot 3's(most of them through history were not 3 pt shooters) Youre saying you'd rather have Patrick Patterson? I think a fair comment is talent over triangle--thats fair to say right? Whatever position Im looking at--Id like to have the highest talent that can fit chemistry wise. Somewhere you will have a long distance shooter or two in the line up in both units. I think the Knicks used Steve Novak quite well--I dont know if he was a 3 or 4 but he was used well. Right now Id say Timmy Hardaway Shumpert Melo JR Calderon and Bargs when he comes back all help space the floor. When Dalembart is in there--he helps "cut our lanes down" as he sits inside 12 feet yet is not an offensive option. This helps the defense cut down spacing. Id rather use Melo as my 4 and get Dalembart out. Melo should be our stretch 4.

BRIGGS wrote:I dont think Stat will be here next year--but hell will any of us not be here next year. 5 games into the season we can give props to a guy who has been a warrior for this team in many ways--has fought through injury time and time again. When you have a team you try to get the best out of each player--to me I think Amare plays very hard every single night he gives 10 effort and hes a successful player. He has his flaws but at the core--the guy is a solid basketball player who was once one of the top 5 players in the game at his peak on a great Phoenix team.

here is where I disagree.

give him props but we are/were stuck with this guy for 5 years and he has not been "a warrior for us in many ways". He has been the exact opposite for most of his knicks tenure.

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I dont think Stat will be here next year--but hell will any of us not be here next year. 5 games into the season we can give props to a guy who has been a warrior for this team in many ways--has fought through injury time and time again. When you have a team you try to get the best out of each player--to me I think Amare plays very hard every single night he gives 10 effort and hes a successful player. He has his flaws but at the core--the guy is a solid basketball player who was once one of the top 5 players in the game at his peak on a great Phoenix team.

here is where I disagree.

give him props but we are/were stuck with this guy for 5 years and he has not been "a warrior for us in many ways". He has been the exact opposite for most of his knicks tenure.

in your opinion. Having been hurt in a variety of ways due to sports what he's done to continue to be an effective NBA player is impressive. Maybe not to you but thats the reality. Cry foul because he couldnt play because of injuries, but Amare has never once dogged it here. He's done everything he can to get on the court. Yea... I get the fire hose incident and that was idiotic, no excuses. Even that though the dude came back in 2 days with 18 stitches on his hand and had an impact.

But whatever... guys hate him. He's gone. Welcome to ultimateKnickhate

Guys hate that we paid him 100 million (not necessarily his fault), that he plays horrendous defense, that he is a horrible passer and a black hole (though efficient for the most part) and that he often ignored the fact that he should be boxing out his man on the boards.

People are also a bit sick of his off season yapping since his signing here has be widely viewed as a disaster (aside from the few at ultimateUnconditionalAmareMeloLove.com)

TripleThreat wrote:

fishmike wrote:come up with better ideas than having one of the league's better scorers in the paint jacking 3s and I wont call your ideas dumb.

You don't seem to get it.

In order for the STAT to score in the way you talk about, in the few instances he does well ( face up, five feet or closer to the basket for his max efficiency and be a blackhole once he touches the ball), he needs to operate with a TRADITIONAL POINT GUARD.

The Knicks are running the TRIANGLE OFFENSE, which wants to remove the traditional point guard from the offense. The underlying reason being if you have one primary playmaker, you are setting yourself up for the defense to overload on that player or if that player is neutralized, you've stagnated your entire offense.

The basic tenets of the TRIANGLE is keep the ball moving and with proper floor spacing, negate the need for any one individual player to consistently be forced to create his own shot. The power forward in the Triangle must operate as a decision maker and passer in the high post. He must know when to automatically pass and when to make a key decision on where to move the ball.

All system offenses, each and every last one of them, still have one core premise - Take what the defense gives you. That's the Triangle, that's Seven Seconds Or Less, that's the Princeton offense, the Four Out/Single Post, that's any offense and any offensive set in principle. The Triangle is designed to open up multiple options and let's the players, if they have the high IQ and fundamentals to run it, seek the highest percentage shot. If the defense is giving you the three point shot, take the three. Take the high percentage opportunity. Take it until they stop you, and force another tradeoff in your favor elsewhere. Ron Artest had no clue in the Triangle in LA, not one idea, but his role was as a defensive stopper and he hung back and set up behind the arc as a three point shooter. As Artest's defense declined, he was still willing to give grit and give up his body on the court. Crazy talk isn't it? A guy who can't fit very well into the Triangle at least giving you an option behind the arc and showing some grit/toughness on D. That's something STAT could have worked on and done the last few years.

The leagues bigs who are shooting five feet and closer to the basket are hitting at like 60-65 percent, the ones who are shooting at a decent clip. STAT isn't even running at max efficiency at the few things he does well.

When STAT turns into Andre Drummond, then fine, feel free to tell me that he has no reason to expand his skill set or should have years ago. Until he stops being a net negative player on the court, I think it's insane to tell a player to stop developing other skills to give him more options on the floor.

Scoring isn't the same as scoring efficiently. It's certainly not the same as asking the question whether what you do well actually fits into the offense you are trying to run.

STAT is a horrible fit in the Triangle. He's a less horrible fit if he had a three point shot going at least a league average clip.

The league is shooting threes at a record pace. Even D League teams are gunning it behind the arc like never before. And a lot of those shots are coming from big men. Statistics even show a correlation between usage of the three and making the playoffs and scoring efficiency, and yet that seems to not be enough for you to accept that ANY PLAYER in the NBA adding an effective three point shot who didn't have one before would be a good thing for his own career and helping his team win.

fishmike wrote:

OldFan wrote:What I find funny is how everyone thinks it's easy for established players to pick up new skills. These guys are already the most skilled basketball players in the world. When you're already better at something then 99.99% of the population it isn't that easy to get better. They have to work hard just to maintain the skills they have. Stat had to work his ass off just to get back on floor - never mind develop a three point shot.

you get a feel for the folks who understand sports and those who dont. Like skill sets are something that are interchangable like underwear. I wonder if half these people have stepped onto any kind of venue of athletic competition since kickball in grade school.

magicTs wrote:

OldFan wrote: Stat had to work his ass off just to get back on floor - never mind develop a three point shot.

My heart literally bleeds for poor little Stat and all the hard work he has put in whilst taking his $400k a week. I mean he really has gone above and beyond the call of duty making himself available for selection.

Stoudemire Putting New Spin on Career

By HOWARD BECK

Published: August 15, 2012


Over a 16-month span that ended in May, Amar’e Stoudemire lost, in no particular order: his health, his brother, his head coach, his primacy in the Knicks’ universe, his scoring touch and, in the end, a little of his dignity.

By the time the Knicks were shoved out of the playoffs in Miami, Stoudemire appeared diminished on every level, his Q-rating and efficiency rating in simultaneous free fall.

“I’m still that player I was last year,” Stoudemire insisted then, vowing a return to full strength and “an incredible year” next season.

The mission began last week, on a quiet ranch in Katy, Tex., where Stoudemire took the first drop-step in a midcareer makeover. The pick-and-rolling, power-dunking star is now a student of the low post. His teacher is a soft-spoken Hall of Famer with a Nigerian accent and two championship rings.

Hakeem Olajuwon, a former Houston Rockets star and an oracle of the low post, is pleased with his pupil’s progress.

“You won’t believe it,” Olajuwon said in a telephone interview from his ranch outside Houston.

The apprenticeship began on Aug. 6, with daily three-hour sessions on Olajuwon’s private court. Stoudemire has proved a quick study, assimilating moves and countermoves as fast as Olajuwon can demonstrate them.

“It’s night and day,” Olajuwon said. “What’s so nice is he wants it; he likes the post. He’s always wanted to play there, but he doesn’t have the moves that would give him that option.”

Since retiring in 2002, Olajuwon has become the N.B.A.’s go-to source for players hoping to develop their post skills. LeBron James, Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant have visited the Olajuwon ranch. So have Marcin Gortat and the Lopez twins, Brook and Robin. This month, it’s Stoudemire and Denver’s JaVale McGee.

Most players come for about four days, Olajuwon said. Stoudemire is staying for two weeks. His motivation is clear.

Stoudemire’s 17.5-point scoring average in 2011-12 was his worst in a full season since his rookie year. His .483 field-goal percentage was the lowest since his second season. He had his shot blocked 1.3 times per game, furthering speculation that his body was breaking down (although, in fact, that rate was close to his career average).

When the season began, Stoudemire was still dealing with the aftermath of an injured back muscle. In February, his older brother, Hazell, was killed in a car accident, which took a tremendous emotional toll. Stoudemire sustained another back injury (a bulging disk) in late March.

The final injury was self-inflicted and humiliating — a lacerated left hand sustained when Stoudemire smashed a glass fire-extinguisher cover in the Miami arena, after a Game 2 loss to the Heat.

Stoudemire returned to help lead the Knicks to a series-saving Game 4 victory, but the damage to his reputation was done. And although he is known for a high work ethic, Stoudemire had reason to work a little harder this summer.

“This is the most engaged I’ve seen him in years,” said Happy Walters, Stoudemire’s agent. He added, “I think fans will be happy.”

They will be happier still if Stoudemire’s new skills foster a better dynamic with Carmelo Anthony, his All-Star tag-team partner. Stoudemire was a dominant scorer when he joined the Knicks, but his role and production diminished once Anthony arrived in February 2011. The Knicks have a losing record with Anthony and Stoudemire in the lineup, and every advanced statistic shows they are worse when both stars are on the court.

Now Stoudemire has lost the coach (Mike D’Antoni) and the offensive system that made him a star in Phoenix and New York. Without a steady diet of pick-and-roll plays, he will need other ways to score. Enter Olajuwon.

Mike Woodson, the new coach, was Olajuwon’s teammate for two years, and the two remain friends. It was Woodson’s idea to send Stoudemire to Houston.

“The coach, he has a good vision,” Olajuwon said cheerfully.

Even at 29, Stoudemire has the strength, quickness and agility to be an effective post scorer once he masters the footwork and timing.

“His spin is becoming so sharp and crisp,” Olajuwon said. “He could spin all day. He loves it.”

Until now, Stoudemire hardly needed a post game. In his first season in the league he was a high-flying 20-year-old — the Blake Griffin of his generation — before developing a sharp midrange jumper that made him nearly unguardable. He has averaged at least 20 points in seven of his N.B.A. seasons, with a career shooting percentage of .533.

Stoudemire has also played most of his career for D’Antoni, whose offense is predicated on spacing and movement, not dump-it-in-the-post sets. When Stoudemire was averaging 37 points against Tim Duncan in the Western Conference finals, no one saw much need for a low-post game.

“We had so much success with him, averaging almost 60 wins a year in Phoenix with the system the way it was,” said Phil Weber, who was on D’Antoni’s staff in both Phoenix and New York. “He could have posted up, but he was so successful.”

But circumstances have changed. D’Antoni is gone. Woodson is installing a more traditional offense. Anthony is dominating the ball on the wing. Stoudemire has little choice but to evolve.

“To now develop a post game is going to be remarkable for me,” Stoudemire told Fox 26 in Houston. “It’s going to catch a lot of my opponents off guard, and it’s going to be a great year for me.”

Olajuwon sounds just as eager to see Stoudemire unleash his new moves in the fall — and to see Woodson’s reaction. Woodson attended the first workout last week and was “very happy,” Olajuwon said.

“But if he sees now, if he sees him today,” Olajuwon continued, chuckling, “he would not believe. I’m excited.”

Melo $124mil for 5yrs