CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?

Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible

Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs

He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbers

When you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team

Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to

Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.

This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////

And have been paid since, of his caliber

Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.

Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?

If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season

Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?

Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value

Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?

Absolutely not

Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his career

Absolutely so, and for most of it

I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime

Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team

I don't have an issue with Love or Melo getting paid. I do think if you are going to trash a guy for forcing a move prior to players being to be locked out so free agency rules can be changed it seems fair to bring into question a guy that does the same thing when there isn't even a threat of labor stoppage. Both guys could have theoretically finished the year and not made their new teams not give up assets. Of course if you go with that theory you have to assume that their teams are run by very incompetent management that would let them leave for nothing. In Melo's case that had just happened in Miami and Toronto.

I explained the above to you and apparently it's going over your head

Maybe this next example calms your brain nerves down some, what about this thought

Love currently plays for the Wolves, they aren't any good/////

Quite possibly the best mediocre team in basketball, right there with us

He wants to go play for a winning team in Cleveland, championship material

The situation alone here makes his and Melo's completely different

Melo was on a winning team, with a chance to retool again.

Love is not

Cleveland isn't gutting their team to acquire him

Love does have come culpability wanting out, why Minny isn't a better team with him

Cleveland's cap situation isn't as clear cut either for 2015 space

It didn't go over my head. The situation when Melo was traded to NY was that the owners were telling the players that they were going to lock them out and reign in free agency. Melo like Love had a destination he wanted to go to and wanted a new deal under the old cba. The Nuggets were making the playoffs at the time but they weren't competing for a championship. Adding Melo and Billups to Amare in theory should have made the Knicks very competitive in the east. At the time the plan was to somehow get CP3 to play with Melo and Amare. Unfortunately Amare began having health issues shortly after the trade and the knicks made other moves that made the cp3 move impossible.

WOW cool story bro... love it how melo is just basically a passive bystander, innocent victim in all of this. but please, DO keep trying to interpret history for posterity's sake.

Melo taking a 4 year deal before an opt out can be exercised is part of the "DISCOUNT" that no one seems to be parsing into the equation.

But let's just ignore that.. Melo is a jerk, Lebron and anyone of any importance to any other team is just fabulous...

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/7/12/5894073/lebron-james-contract-cavaliers-two-years

Excerpt from article:
"Most notably, the new television deal in 2016 is expected to kick the salary cap up to $80 million, $17 million higher than it was this year. A max contract is a portion of the cap, so James can sign a bigger deal than he'd lock himself into now if he signed for multiple years."

gunsnewing wrote:You guys are all lost comparing the players in the deal. How about the fact that we overpaid for a broken down AMARE leaving us with no roster flexibility. We won 37 games last year. 54 the year before but flamed out early in the playoffs because we could only afford 49yr olds. Those are facts. The rest are your opinions

FIFY

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

take that poopy flavored lolipop out of your mouth and stop posting your theories. They suck

what about the rest of the post skippy

Just take his post as a compliment and enjoy your day. You're not going to get a serious basketball discussion here.

Let's continue to set the fine example, while encouraging him.

Maybe he'll evolve and grow into a role of valued contribution

vegas odds have fishmike making a valid contribution at about 50 to 1, which is coincidentally what the odds the knicks are for winning a title this season.

i disagree with vegas on skippy, i see the odds at closer to the "crushalot max" of around 5000 to 1.

Vegas odds of DK lasting another year on this board without getting banned.......10-1
Vegas odds of DK being able to completely avoid racist comments in his posts........1000-1
Vegas odds of DK avoiding posting something negative about Melo...............1,000,000 - 1
DK's comedic and entertainment value to readers on this board......priceless

nyvector16 wrote:Lebron's 2 year deal was mostly due to the NBA TV deal that will drastically increase the salary cap and therefore the max slot amount that he will take advantage of at that time.

Melo taking a 4 year deal before an opt out can be exercised is part of the "DISCOUNT" that no one seems to be parsing into the equation.

But let's just ignore that.. Melo is a jerk, Lebron and anyone of any importance to any other team is just fabulous...

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/7/12/5894073/lebron-james-contract-cavaliers-two-years

Excerpt from article:
"Most notably, the new television deal in 2016 is expected to kick the salary cap up to $80 million, $17 million higher than it was this year. A max contract is a portion of the cap, so James can sign a bigger deal than he'd lock himself into now if he signed for multiple years."

Must be the reason Melo has an opt out 2yrs after.

It's called get paid NOW & LATER

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?

amare: "hey i have been screwed since melo came here i don't owe the knicks a discount"love: "lebron james wants me to play with him in cleveland and there's potentially a two year window"

The thing of beauty about this post is that DK goes on a rant about Intellectual Dishonesty in this thread and then posts an intellectually dishonest theory about Amare to try to back up a point that he has no defense on. LOL.

i was asked to speculate as to why amare opted in. how does speculation coincide with intellectual dishonesty? do you even understand the words coming out of your cakehole?

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?

amare: "hey i have been screwed since melo came here i don't owe the knicks a discount"love: "lebron james wants me to play with him in cleveland and there's potentially a two year window"

The thing of beauty about this post is that DK goes on a rant about Intellectual Dishonesty in this thread and then posts an intellectually dishonest theory about Amare to try to back up a point that he has no defense on. LOL.

i was asked to speculate as to why amare opted in. how does speculation coincide with intellectual dishonesty? do you even understand the words coming out of your cakehole?

Well your theory was so stupidly moronic that I felt that you were playing possum and were essentially being intellectually dishonest in throwing it out there to debate a point that you had no good answer for. But since you are claiming that you were not being intellectually dishonest by putting a piece of sh1t theory out there, I guess that means you are then claiming to be a fvcking moron. Which is it?

are those the only two choices that you are going to allow?

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?

Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible

Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs

He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbers

When you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team

Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to

Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.

This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////

And have been paid since, of his caliber

Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.

Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?

If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season

Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?

Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value

Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?

Absolutely not

Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his career

Absolutely so, and for most of it

I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime

Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team

I don't have an issue with Love or Melo getting paid. I do think if you are going to trash a guy for forcing a move prior to players being to be locked out so free agency rules can be changed it seems fair to bring into question a guy that does the same thing when there isn't even a threat of labor stoppage. Both guys could have theoretically finished the year and not made their new teams not give up assets. Of course if you go with that theory you have to assume that their teams are run by very incompetent management that would let them leave for nothing. In Melo's case that had just happened in Miami and Toronto.

I explained the above to you and apparently it's going over your head

Maybe this next example calms your brain nerves down some, what about this thought

Love currently plays for the Wolves, they aren't any good/////

Quite possibly the best mediocre team in basketball, right there with us

He wants to go play for a winning team in Cleveland, championship material

The situation alone here makes his and Melo's completely different

Melo was on a winning team, with a chance to retool again.

Love is not

Cleveland isn't gutting their team to acquire him

Love does have come culpability wanting out, why Minny isn't a better team with him

Cleveland's cap situation isn't as clear cut either for 2015 space

It didn't go over my head. The situation when Melo was traded to NY was that the owners were telling the players that they were going to lock them out and reign in free agency. Melo like Love had a destination he wanted to go to and wanted a new deal under the old cba. The Nuggets were making the playoffs at the time but they weren't competing for a championship. Adding Melo and Billups to Amare in theory should have made the Knicks very competitive in the east. At the time the plan was to somehow get CP3 to play with Melo and Amare. Unfortunately Amare began having health issues shortly after the trade and the knicks made other moves that made the cp3 move impossible.

WOW cool story bro... love it how melo is just basically a passive bystander, innocent victim in all of this. but please, DO keep trying to interpret history for posterity's sake.

In the parts you emphasized, Melo could be nothing but a passive bystander. Was he supposed to magically heal Amare?

Damn right he should of- Durant healed Westbrook

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?

Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible

Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs

He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbers

When you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team

Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to

Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.

This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////

And have been paid since, of his caliber

Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.

Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?

If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season

Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?

Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value

Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?

Absolutely not

Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his career

Absolutely so, and for most of it

I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime

Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team

I don't have an issue with Love or Melo getting paid. I do think if you are going to trash a guy for forcing a move prior to players being to be locked out so free agency rules can be changed it seems fair to bring into question a guy that does the same thing when there isn't even a threat of labor stoppage. Both guys could have theoretically finished the year and not made their new teams not give up assets. Of course if you go with that theory you have to assume that their teams are run by very incompetent management that would let them leave for nothing. In Melo's case that had just happened in Miami and Toronto.

I explained the above to you and apparently it's going over your head

Maybe this next example calms your brain nerves down some, what about this thought

Love currently plays for the Wolves, they aren't any good/////

Quite possibly the best mediocre team in basketball, right there with us

He wants to go play for a winning team in Cleveland, championship material

The situation alone here makes his and Melo's completely different

Melo was on a winning team, with a chance to retool again.

Love is not

Cleveland isn't gutting their team to acquire him

Love does have come culpability wanting out, why Minny isn't a better team with him

Cleveland's cap situation isn't as clear cut either for 2015 space

It didn't go over my head. The situation when Melo was traded to NY was that the owners were telling the players that they were going to lock them out and reign in free agency. Melo like Love had a destination he wanted to go to and wanted a new deal under the old cba. The Nuggets were making the playoffs at the time but they weren't competing for a championship. Adding Melo and Billups to Amare in theory should have made the Knicks very competitive in the east. At the time the plan was to somehow get CP3 to play with Melo and Amare. Unfortunately Amare began having health issues shortly after the trade and the knicks made other moves that made the cp3 move impossible.

WOW cool story bro... love it how melo is just basically a passive bystander, innocent victim in all of this. but please, DO keep trying to interpret history for posterity's sake.

In the parts you emphasized, Melo could be nothing but a passive bystander. Was he supposed to magically heal Amare?

ehhh the entire post is gobbledy-gook that looks to exonerate anthony no matter what. i guess hell will freeze over before some folks will hold melo accountable for something, anything, having to do with the knicks record since he forced a trade here.

imagine trying to compare the two situations. love? he gets to play with lebron and irving. no overlap, no redundancy, greater possibility for chemistry, odds have the cavs at 40% winning the title THIS SEASON.

melo and stoudemire? the essence of overlap and bad chemistry. stoudemire "unfortunately having health issues" is misdirection, pure and simple. in fact melo later admitted-- in his typically teflon and deeply offensive way-- that he knew it would take at least a couple of years for the knicks to become contenders-- what the hell!?! didn't we get put into win-now mode because of this fool? so, yeah, this "stoudemire health issue" going to be checked. besides, if you knew it was going to take a couple of years then why not wait until free agency and cut that time frame down to one year, perhaps less, since the team was already playoff-bound?

no point guard other than cp3 could have made that pair work, that is probably true. and yet here again we have this "plan to somehow get cp3." what nonsense, since melo's forcing his own trade here virtually guaranteed no possibility of having the money or assets to acquire cp3. so yeah that "somehow" statement is going to be checked.

"the situation when melo was traded to NY" is another statement that makes melo a non-actor in his own career... and it is going to be checked.

AMEN