tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:For me, system or no system, doesn't matter..A coach that can connect with his players, lead them, push the right button to get the best out if them is what matters...

Examples..
JVG connected with the Knicks players and got results..
Riley connected with the Knicks, Lakers, and the Heat and got results..
Phil connected with the Lakers and Bulls..
LB connected with the Sixers and Detriot..
Daly connected with the Pistons
Doc connected with Celts..
Pop in SA,
Utah great teams ...I can go on...

Great coaches connects trumps systems ...

But because we choose this system, here are our choices..Tyron Lue, Kerr, Derek Fisher, Brian Shaw..See my concern?

holfresh you are proving dk's point.. those teams had great players with high Iq's, highly skilled... the knicks had a style of play, that was rugged, they were able to get away without having a system because they had skilled players... same with riley in LA.....

Great coaches connects trumps systems ...

what about great coaches with a system? not sure Great coaches trumps systems.... larry brown was a great coach, and when he was here, we needed a system... larry brown's coaching alone wasn't enough as we witnessed..

Good point on Larry Brown. We had no system and extremely low IQ players like Marbury, eddy & TT

gunsnewing wrote:This is why i disagree with people who point to the Isiah to justify trading picks and stock piling picks and young players yield 20-30wins. I think you establish a winning environment which Isiah never did then you draft well, make smart trades and FA signing that fit the system not a mishmash of talent. This is what excites me most about Phil. I don't think he will overpay Melo then go after other big money guys like love etc. I think he will look to land yet next Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, Duncan and the best way to build a sustainable winner is through the draft as we've seen the last 30+ years.We may not win for a while but it would be nice to leginitately be in the mix year in year out. Throwing players against the wall and hoping they stick might get you in the playoffs and please Dolan but nothing is worse than being that team that never gets past the 2rd. Like the old hawks and hornets for example because it hurts your draft

what are you high dude...building through the draft, kobe was traded to the lakers, jordan was in the league 7 yr before he won a championship, and the spurs got quite lucky. Prior to duncan (who won his title in his 1st season) David robinson hadn't won sht but a scoring title..

Drafting players is more like throwing it on the wall and hope it sticks. Melo, Labron, deng, boozer, dwill..great draft picks that aren't even on the teams that drafted them, and even though they were traded or walked, there previous teams are far worse then they were.

So please spear us the building through the draft crap.

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:For me, system or no system, doesn't matter..A coach that can connect with his players, lead them, push the right button to get the best out if them is what matters...

Examples..
JVG connected with the Knicks players and got results..
Riley connected with the Knicks, Lakers, and the Heat and got results..
Phil connected with the Lakers and Bulls..
LB connected with the Sixers and Detriot..
Daly connected with the Pistons
Doc connected with Celts..
Pop in SA,
Utah great teams ...I can go on...

Great coaches connects trumps systems ...

But because we choose this system, here are our choices..Tyron Lue, Kerr, Derek Fisher, Brian Shaw..See my concern?

holfresh you are proving dk's point.. those teams had great players with high Iq's, highly skilled... the knicks had a style of play, that was rugged, they were able to get away without having a system because they had skilled players... same with riley in LA.....

Great coaches connects trumps systems ...

what about great coaches with a system? not sure Great coaches trumps systems.... larry brown was a great coach, and when he was here, we needed a system... larry brown's coaching alone wasn't enough as we witnessed..

No, I'm proving my point..You need highly skilled players with high BB IQ's to win, period, system or no system...I was showing him you also need good coaches that using a style of play that best suits the capabilities its players...I listed good coaches that had success not using a system...I asked him outside of Phil, who has won using a system??...Still waiting for an answer...My contention is that Phil was a great coach and a great communicator..It was Phil's talent as a communicator and as a coach, who pressed the right buttons that helped his team win, not the system...His system has failed miserably used by his disciples...Not one has succeeded using his system...

MDA is a case worth examining...He had a system with high IQ players in PHX that fit perfectly and didn't win a Championship...I have always said he isn't a good coach, he is a guy that has a system which worked with the right players...His system failed miserably in NY without skilled players to implement it...So my point is yes, you need skilled players to win not matter what you run but you need a good coach who can adjust to his roster, no matter what you run, to win Championships...

To further illustrate this, Nolad made a point a few post ago that Phil bent his system to allow for Kobe, who didn't always play within it's structure..Phil wanted Kobe traded...Phil and Kobe won 5 rings together...

Releasing him on 4/20 shows that Herb has a good sense of humor, IMO. And . . . and . . . I suspect Herb will be back.

Rookie wrote:I remember watching Beno in pre season and thinking about how he was trying to run a movement offense but everyone was just standing around. I remember thinking how he looked frustrated dribleing the ball around to get the defense to start moving and everyone else was standing in there spots waiting to get the ball so they could do their 1 on 1 thing. This season was painful. to watch. Better days ahead. Glad Beno is getting his chance to play in meaningful games. He deserved better then rotting on the bench here or trying to run a stagnant offense which really wasn't his game.

100% agree..

knicks1248 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is why i disagree with people who point to the Isiah to justify trading picks and stock piling picks and young players yield 20-30wins. I think you establish a winning environment which Isiah never did then you draft well, make smart trades and FA signing that fit the system not a mishmash of talent. This is what excites me most about Phil. I don't think he will overpay Melo then go after other big money guys like love etc. I think he will look to land yet next Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, Duncan and the best way to build a sustainable winner is through the draft as we've seen the last 30+ years.We may not win for a while but it would be nice to leginitately be in the mix year in year out. Throwing players against the wall and hoping they stick might get you in the playoffs and please Dolan but nothing is worse than being that team that never gets past the 2rd. Like the old hawks and hornets for example because it hurts your draft

what are you high dude...building through the draft, kobe was traded to the lakers, jordan was in the league 7 yr before he won a championship, and the spurs got quite lucky. Prior to duncan (who won his title in his 1st season) David robinson hadn't won sht but a scoring title..

Drafting players is more like throwing it on the wall and hope it sticks. Melo, Labron, deng, boozer, dwill..great draft picks that aren't even on the teams that drafted them, and even though they were traded or walked, there previous teams are far worse then they were.

So please spear us the building through the draft crap.

Name 1 team that has a won a championship the past without a drafted cornerstone player. Go

detroit

OK I'll give you that, but dallas, miami, lakers, boston, had to revamp there roster several times before the won.

The NBA by far is the mosted watered down league in all the 4 major sports, that the same 5 or 6 teams keeping winning championships while the other 25 teams can only get close,and there have been some very talented teams that just couldn't catch a break/get lucky.

I dont dissapprove of using the draft to get a quailty young gun, I just wouldn't build my team around a single player unless it's a ducan/LBJ/melo/kobe and even drafting those type players, you still need a veteran squad in place to truly have a legit shot

That's why I said establish a winning culture, draft well, make smart trades and sign FA's that fit not mish mosh/thrown against the wall hope it sticks. We agree

gunsnewing wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is why i disagree with people who point to the Isiah to justify trading picks and stock piling picks and young players yield 20-30wins. I think you establish a winning environment which Isiah never did then you draft well, make smart trades and FA signing that fit the system not a mishmash of talent. This is what excites me most about Phil. I don't think he will overpay Melo then go after other big money guys like love etc. I think he will look to land yet next Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, Duncan and the best way to build a sustainable winner is through the draft as we've seen the last 30+ years.We may not win for a while but it would be nice to leginitately be in the mix year in year out. Throwing players against the wall and hoping they stick might get you in the playoffs and please Dolan but nothing is worse than being that team that never gets past the 2rd. Like the old hawks and hornets for example because it hurts your draft

what are you high dude...building through the draft, kobe was traded to the lakers, jordan was in the league 7 yr before he won a championship, and the spurs got quite lucky. Prior to duncan (who won his title in his 1st season) David robinson hadn't won sht but a scoring title..

Drafting players is more like throwing it on the wall and hope it sticks. Melo, Labron, deng, boozer, dwill..great draft picks that aren't even on the teams that drafted them, and even though they were traded or walked, there previous teams are far worse then they were.

So please spear us the building through the draft crap.

Name 1 team that has a won a championship the past without a drafted cornerstone player. Go

detroit

OK I'll give you that, but dallas, miami, lakers, boston, had to revamp there roster several times before the won.

The NBA by far is the mosted watered down league in all the 4 major sports, that the same 5 or 6 teams keeping winning championships while the other 25 teams can only get close,and there have been some very talented teams that just couldn't catch a break/get lucky.

I dont dissapprove of using the draft to get a quailty young gun, I just wouldn't build my team around a single player unless it's a ducan/LBJ/melo/kobe and even drafting those type players, you still need a veteran squad in place to truly have a legit shot

That's why I said establish a winning culture, draft well, make smart trades and sign FA's that fit not mish mosh/thrown against the wall hope it sticks. We agree

I think with IT and Woodson it was more of a culture thing then it was lack of talent. With MDA/chaney/ wilkens it was a lack of talent. Larry brown was a complete mess, the system he wanted to run was not beneficial to his talent by far.

But im convince that the Culture in any line of business is what makes it a successful journey. You just can't have one key player not on board, your doomed if that happens

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:For me, system or no system, doesn't matter..A coach that can connect with his players, lead them, push the right button to get the best out if them is what matters...

Examples..
JVG connected with the Knicks players and got results..
Riley connected with the Knicks, Lakers, and the Heat and got results..
Phil connected with the Lakers and Bulls..
LB connected with the Sixers and Detriot..
Daly connected with the Pistons
Doc connected with Celts..
Pop in SA,
Utah great teams ...I can go on...

Great coaches connects trumps systems ...

But because we choose this system, here are our choices..Tyron Lue, Kerr, Derek Fisher, Brian Shaw..See my concern?

holfresh you are proving dk's point.. those teams had great players with high Iq's, highly skilled... the knicks had a style of play, that was rugged, they were able to get away without having a system because they had skilled players... same with riley in LA.....

Great coaches connects trumps systems ...

what about great coaches with a system? not sure Great coaches trumps systems.... larry brown was a great coach, and when he was here, we needed a system... larry brown's coaching alone wasn't enough as we witnessed..

Good point on Larry Brown. We had no system and extremely low IQ players like Marbury, eddy & TT

yea, those two geniuses needed a system for sure.... LOL

I completely understand why larry went bonkers when he was here.. hahaha

Wait! You mean dumping the ball to Curry every posession to pad his stats and justify Isiah trading two unprotected lottery picks isn't a system?!?!

LB losing a power struggle to Isiah/Marbs was a clear sign of things to come for this organization. He was the only one with a track record of winning out of all 3 guys and he got sent home. (Isiah won as a player, not an executive)