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Last night's was a reminder of how good Melo is. We should be talking about how to build around him!
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tkf
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1/27/2014  2:47 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
tkf wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
tkf wrote:why bring up gallo? again you are focused on the wrong thing... hence the bigger problem with your post.. Actually I never want to see gallo do that.. I would take consistent play and a winning team.. like he has been on.... how about that for a change , or does 17-27 make you happy.. take the game for what it is worth for all It is worth..... This guy doesn't impress me as much as he does you guys.. I am impressed with leadership, and winning...

were you impressed with melo at this point in 2013?


nope.... I was impressed with jason kidd.. as my post back then indicated... he is gone and lookie, lookie... knicks are in the gutter... go figure..

i completely agree with you that kidd and wallace made a huge difference with this team, but AT THAT TIME... you had no clear VISION of this.
you couldn't sit there with a straight face and say... oh yeah i knew all along that Carmelo was not the reason that this team was playing better.
that would be exactly what people call you...being a hater.

leadership and winning right? you should be impressed with Carmelo and all of the Knicks at that point because you had no idea what was going on in the locker room.

well....?

LOL. I love the way you set things up for me..

tkf
Posts: 35171
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27/11/2012 10:58 AM
kidd is the kind of franchise player/ leader this team sorely needs... but he is just way past his prime, but still the MVP of the knicks... I wish we had him in his early 30's..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43309&page=1

I said back then that kidd was the knicks MVP.. knicks fans went crazy because they felt carmeloser was in the mvp "scussion"..... after just 3 games may I remind you..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
AUTOADVERT
fishmike
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1/27/2014  3:06 PM
tkf wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
tkf wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
tkf wrote:why bring up gallo? again you are focused on the wrong thing... hence the bigger problem with your post.. Actually I never want to see gallo do that.. I would take consistent play and a winning team.. like he has been on.... how about that for a change , or does 17-27 make you happy.. take the game for what it is worth for all It is worth..... This guy doesn't impress me as much as he does you guys.. I am impressed with leadership, and winning...

were you impressed with melo at this point in 2013?


nope.... I was impressed with jason kidd.. as my post back then indicated... he is gone and lookie, lookie... knicks are in the gutter... go figure..

i completely agree with you that kidd and wallace made a huge difference with this team, but AT THAT TIME... you had no clear VISION of this.
you couldn't sit there with a straight face and say... oh yeah i knew all along that Carmelo was not the reason that this team was playing better.
that would be exactly what people call you...being a hater.

leadership and winning right? you should be impressed with Carmelo and all of the Knicks at that point because you had no idea what was going on in the locker room.

well....?

LOL. I love the way you set things up for me..

tkf
Posts: 35171
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Joined: 13/8/2001
Member: #87
27/11/2012 10:58 AM
kidd is the kind of franchise player/ leader this team sorely needs... but he is just way past his prime, but still the MVP of the knicks... I wish we had him in his early 30's..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43309&page=1

I said back then that kidd was the knicks MVP.. knicks fans went crazy because they felt carmeloser was in the mvp "scussion"..... after just 3 games may I remind you..

highlarious.

Typical TKF posting... It wasnt the guy who finished ahead of Kobe/CP3 in the MVP votes (combined their points actually). It was Jason Kidd. He was the reason the KNicks won 54 games last year. Except the playoffs. Despite Kidd averaging .9 points shooting 12% in 20 minutes in the playoffs the Knicks lost because of Melo.

And if Melo was a better team guy and not such a loser Kidd would have played better anyway.

Kinda like that?

How could anyone get mad reading you post?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
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1/27/2014  3:17 PM
fishmike wrote:
tkf wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
tkf wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
tkf wrote:why bring up gallo? again you are focused on the wrong thing... hence the bigger problem with your post.. Actually I never want to see gallo do that.. I would take consistent play and a winning team.. like he has been on.... how about that for a change , or does 17-27 make you happy.. take the game for what it is worth for all It is worth..... This guy doesn't impress me as much as he does you guys.. I am impressed with leadership, and winning...

were you impressed with melo at this point in 2013?


nope.... I was impressed with jason kidd.. as my post back then indicated... he is gone and lookie, lookie... knicks are in the gutter... go figure..

i completely agree with you that kidd and wallace made a huge difference with this team, but AT THAT TIME... you had no clear VISION of this.
you couldn't sit there with a straight face and say... oh yeah i knew all along that Carmelo was not the reason that this team was playing better.
that would be exactly what people call you...being a hater.

leadership and winning right? you should be impressed with Carmelo and all of the Knicks at that point because you had no idea what was going on in the locker room.

well....?

LOL. I love the way you set things up for me..

tkf
Posts: 35171
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 13/8/2001
Member: #87
27/11/2012 10:58 AM
kidd is the kind of franchise player/ leader this team sorely needs... but he is just way past his prime, but still the MVP of the knicks... I wish we had him in his early 30's..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43309&page=1

I said back then that kidd was the knicks MVP.. knicks fans went crazy because they felt carmeloser was in the mvp "scussion"..... after just 3 games may I remind you..

highlarious.

Typical TKF posting... It wasnt the guy who finished ahead of Kobe/CP3 in the MVP votes (combined their points actually). It was Jason Kidd. He was the reason the KNicks won 54 games last year. Except the playoffs. Despite Kidd averaging .9 points shooting 12% in 20 minutes in the playoffs the Knicks lost because of Melo.

And if Melo was a better team guy and not such a loser Kidd would have played better anyway.

Kinda like that?

How could anyone get mad reading you post?

I dunno fish.. kidd is gone and we suck.... can you tell me why?

oh wait. it's woodsons fault?

no.. bargnani

No.. amare

no.. artest

no.. dolan

I am waiting for carmelo to DRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG this team to the top of the east... where is it fish?


shall I continue? rofl...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
fishmike
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1/27/2014  3:30 PM
I have told you why.

Show me a team in the NBA who has had worse guard play then the Knicks. One team. Please... do show.

So yes.. we had Melo at the 4 with a 3 guard line up and that = 54 wins.

Take Melo, move him to 3, put slow footed Bargs at with Tyson or KMart at the 5, two guys who clog clog clog. Then JR misses 5 games and comes back to shoot 35% and play terrible. Did I mention he was the 6th man last year? Thats an award you get. It means you did good. This year he does no good. No rewards.

So JR, Prigo, Felton, Kidd, Shumpert... what have we gotten from them this year? This doesnt factor into a team's wins and losses? Do you blame Ewing that Starks shot 1-17? Do you? Was it Pat's fault? Damn that Ewing and his lack of leadership!

Poor TFK... better lay it on thick now because yes, Melo is going to start leading the Knicks up the standings. What a miserable ride it will be for you but you can watch Gallo rehab video's to get you by maybe?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Cartman718
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1/27/2014  4:10 PM
tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
fishmike
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1/27/2014  4:18 PM
Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

he does! Thats what makes him cute.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
RonRon
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1/27/2014  4:34 PM
The question should be, how do you build a TEAM with talents if Melo makes 1/2 of the entire CAP?
We don't have the bird rights of players of talents so we need to preserve CAP room

It doesn't matter how good people think Melo is, will there be enough talent to contend, Melo can drop 62 on the Bobcats but can he do it in the playoffs vs premier NBA teams like The Pacer's and Heat....

With 2015 so close, with the the UFA's available, why do we have to pay Melo max money if we know we cannot surround him with the talent needed to contend?
Talent costs $$$, players are not coming at a discount, 2 way players cost even more...

The difference between a vet min player to 2-3m is huge, and for 5-7m there are many good complimentary players that we would not be able to sign
In order to contend, Melo needs to be with at least 1-2 STAR's and complimentary players that we would NOT be able to sign if we do in fact sign him to a max deal

Now, if Dolan wants to pay him a large amount I am fine with it IF it is after 2016 summer, after we build a foundation of a core of players to build on
Until then, I think it would be a HUGE mistake to sign him to an extension

With the 30m for 1 player, you can sign an entire starting lineup that would be better than ours right now, look at Denver's team right now with their injuries
It isn't money well spent, not with this CBA, not for our future

As fans, root for the best interest of the the Knicks, not the best needs or pockets of one player, the franchise is here to stay not necessarily for the players on the Knicks
When it is all said and done, we cannot expect other players that have made much less than Melo to take a huge paycut in order to come to NYK

END OF STORY
StarksEwing1
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1/27/2014  4:42 PM
Fans need to realize thats its not about wanting melo to be traded its about NOT letting him walk for nothing. We paid a hefty price for melo(too hefty IMO) so letting him walk for nothing would be beyond stupid unless we are shooting for the number 1 pick in 2015 which might not be a bad idea considering we are probably gonna be bad next year anyway
dk7th
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1/27/2014  4:57 PM
Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

knicks should have acquired a two-way point guard INSTEAD of melo.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
NYY1NYK2
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1/27/2014  5:05 PM
Deron williams was available, He now has a lingering ankle injury and will never be the same.
We gave up alot for melo, too much. but he was the best player available.
Bonn1997
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1/27/2014  5:20 PM
NYY1NYK2 wrote:Deron williams was available, He now has a lingering ankle injury and will never be the same.
We gave up alot for melo, too much. but he was the best player available.

Best player available is not the same as best path available.
RonRon
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1/27/2014  6:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2014  6:25 PM
This thread is

1- "HOW TO BUILD AROUND MELO"

NOT

2- because we gave us so many assets in order to get him, we might as well overpay to keep him

3- if you believe we can build around a max extension at about 30m (this summer), please tell me how you intend to add talent on the roster, who you plan to target, and at what salaries

4- Then ask yourself who would win in a 7 game series vs the Pacer's because they are only going to get better

5- It is a trick question, YOU CANNOT BUILD A TEAM if you pay Melo a salary starting at about 27m, by 2015-16 it will go up again to 29m, that is 1/2 the salary cap
Including cap holds, salaries of the players that go beyond 2015 (Felton, JR, Pablo), draft picks coming in *2015 draft pick and if we trade/purchase picks), young talent we decide to keep or sign in the near future, MLE, Tim Hardway JR??, Iman???


http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

Cap space is 60m in TOTAL combined salaries able to spend on an entire team, player options and TEAM options might not have been included look

6- If you do not understand how the salary works with this new CBA I suggest you either find out on your own with google, if not don't bother replying because you have no clue, and I am not going to explain


If you cannot tell me how to build a team around Melo at that salary, please don't post again on WHY WE SHOULD KEEP and BUILD AROUND MELO if he opts out
gunsnewing
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1/27/2014  6:39 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2014  6:42 PM
Agreed that's why I only resign Melo at $17-21 maybe $23mil for the 5yr duration or peace out.
I will take my chances on a full rebuild
REAL TALK.
alwaysaknick
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1/27/2014  8:16 PM

[/quote]
SO is homerism and hero worship...
[/quote]

Melo made a franchise record. We are proud of this.
tkf
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1/27/2014  8:31 PM
fishmike wrote:I have told you why.

Show me a team in the NBA who has had worse guard play then the Knicks. One team. Please... do show.

So yes.. we had Melo at the 4 with a 3 guard line up and that = 54 wins.

Take Melo, move him to 3, put slow footed Bargs at with Tyson or KMart at the 5, two guys who clog clog clog. Then JR misses 5 games and comes back to shoot 35% and play terrible. Did I mention he was the 6th man last year? Thats an award you get. It means you did good. This year he does no good. No rewards.

So JR, Prigo, Felton, Kidd, Shumpert... what have we gotten from them this year? This doesnt factor into a team's wins and losses? Do you blame Ewing that Starks shot 1-17? Do you? Was it Pat's fault? Damn that Ewing and his lack of leadership!

Poor TFK... better lay it on thick now because yes, Melo is going to start leading the Knicks up the standings. What a miserable ride it will be for you but you can watch Gallo rehab video's to get you by maybe?


FISH first of all i am not sure if you think the gallo refrences are helping your argument.. honestly they make you look juvenile... is it that hard to present an argument without acting like your feelings are hurt?

next I ask..show me a team whose best player takes over 20 shots per game, shoots 44% doesn't defend, doesn't pass and doesnt make anyone better, and I will show you a team that will never compete for a title..

Blame it on the back court as much as you want, it is just deflecting..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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1/27/2014  8:35 PM
Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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1/27/2014  8:38 PM
gunsnewing wrote:Agreed that's why I only resign Melo at $17-21 maybe $23mil for the 5yr duration or peace out.
I will take my chances on a full rebuild
REAL TALK.

17-21 million? why not just give him what he wants then..
read my post I quoted ron ron with.... its in another thread I think..

the wizards gave arenas 111 mil... this is the year after he scored 60 points may I remind you.. now let me add.

arenas was eligible for 126 mil.. but he took 111 because he said he wanted to leave money for the wiz to add talent.

well 2 mil a year roughly is just not enough to add the kind of players around arenas needed to contend.. wizards were never sucessful at doing that..

arenas needed to take a much bigger cut... of course he wasn't going to do that.. and neither is carmelo guns..

if you really think you can win with carmelo then why not just give him all the money.. there is no in between here....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
gunsnewing
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1/27/2014  8:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2014  8:44 PM
Because he is not Jordan or lebron. You can't win with Melo alone

Also Arenas is not Melo
tkf
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1/27/2014  8:54 PM
gunsnewing wrote:Because he is not Jordan or lebron. You can't win with Melo alone

Also Arenas is not Melo

some would argue arenas was better... but my question to you guns... if you can't win with melo alone and he needs allstars around him, then 17-21 mil isn't much of a savings bro.... might as well pay him the whole thing.. other wise let him go.. he isn't signing for anything less..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
gunsnewing
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1/27/2014  9:02 PM
Then I would let him go

Duncan and Lebron earn in that range. They want to win and have won

At $30mil all the people who say give him the max will be he same people complaining about giving him $30 to sit at the end of the bench in a suit for years. People never learn
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Last night's was a reminder of how good Melo is. We should be talking about how to build around him!
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