StarksEwing1 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:It's time for this organization to start thinking about rebuilding around Melo..JVG said it last night...They have to entertain trade scenarios around Chandler, Shump, etc...We might have to take a second look at Lowry...

It would ahve been much easier if we didnt have to tarde so many assets for him. If he would ahve just waited to sign with us as a FA we would probably be in better shape IMO

Name those "assets"...Tell me the reason why we stink is Gallo...Stops saying assets and put names to them...

Cap space was the biggest one but picks and solid players count too

Please elaborate, Gallo had to get 10 mil which became Tyson essentially..So please elaborate...What pick..Tell me about the picks Donnie gave away to get under the cap..He could have let ZBO and the others expire..Does that count???? We traded David Lee for garbage and pointless salary back, so apparently Donnie wasn't thinking about the cap at that point..

Gallo doesn't even make half what Melo does but no one said we had to keep him anyway. If you don't know what picks we gave up in the Melo trade, you can look that up easily. I don't see what the other questions have to do with the topic.

What?????I have no clue what u are trying to say...What is the relevance of pointing out Gallo salary??...U said we would have cap space if Melo came here via free agency..I said we would have to pay Gallo 10 mil per plus Melo and Amare....The Mayor had to walk because we had no money for him...Where is the cap space???

I named the assets we gave up to get Melo. I was only replying to that part of the discussion. I wouldn't have signed Melo to a max contract salary in the off-season.

U would have signed Harden right??

Most likely. Houston got a great deal with him at $14 mil per

damn right i would have signed harden too the guy is a beast

He certainly was no beast before he went to Houston. I was one of his biggest fans (and an advocate for trying to deal both Lin and Shumpert for him before he became a free agent) but even I never assumed he'd be this caliber of star. Hell, there was even talk about Houston overpaying for him, considering his piss poor performance in the Finals.

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:It's time for this organization to start thinking about rebuilding around Melo..JVG said it last night...They have to entertain trade scenarios around Chandler, Shump, etc...We might have to take a second look at Lowry...

It would ahve been much easier if we didnt have to tarde so many assets for him. If he would ahve just waited to sign with us as a FA we would probably be in better shape IMO

Name those "assets"...Tell me the reason why we stink is Gallo...Stops saying assets and put names to them...

Cap space was the biggest one but picks and solid players count too

Please elaborate, Gallo had to get 10 mil which became Tyson essentially..So please elaborate...What pick..Tell me about the picks Donnie gave away to get under the cap..He could have let ZBO and the others expire..Does that count???? We traded David Lee for garbage and pointless salary back, so apparently Donnie wasn't thinking about the cap at that point..

Gallo doesn't even make half what Melo does but no one said we had to keep him anyway. If you don't know what picks we gave up in the Melo trade, you can look that up easily. I don't see what the other questions have to do with the topic.

What?????I have no clue what u are trying to say...What is the relevance of pointing out Gallo salary??...U said we would have cap space if Melo came here via free agency..I said we would have to pay Gallo 10 mil per plus Melo and Amare....The Mayor had to walk because we had no money for him...Where is the cap space???

I named the assets we gave up to get Melo. I was only replying to that part of the discussion. I wouldn't have signed Melo to a max contract salary in the off-season.

U would have signed Harden right??

Most likely. Houston got a great deal with him at $14 mil per

More closer to 16 mil per...No too different from a max deal, only space for one more max guy...Sprinkle in Lin and Asik at 15 per next year...They have to pay Parsons at least 10 mil next year...Their other max guy is Howard, who can play, we signed Amare who can't play...Surprised u still support Harden after calling Melo a volume scorer, who shoots it better than Harden...

You must not be counting the first year they got out of him for $5 mil. They're getting 6 yrs for $85 mil. Melo does not shoot better than Harden - you're just looking at the wrong #s. Their TS #s aren't remotely close. Melo will never be able to dream of scoring 24 PPG on 16 shots a game. Harden is a volume scorer, though. He's a high volume, high efficiency scorer. There's no other way to describe a .600 TS% or 1.5 points per shot.

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:So all this "assets" talk boils down to Danilo Gallanari...Melo came so we lost Gallo..Booo freaking hoooooo....

Yes, big "freaking hoooooo". Who on our team outside of Melo is better than a healthy Gallo? Or Chandler? I think their real importance comes from their trade value though. Those guys in a package could've gotten us CP3.

JR Smith put up better numbers than Gallo did last year...Tyson Chandler or Gallo is really the choice, same salary slot, Wilson Chandler had to walk away for nothing to sign Melo......So you are saying the Knick would be better with Gallo over Tyson Chandler??

I'm not saying anything that you are suggesting. Gallo wasn't a free agent until 2012, so the "him or Chandler" argument is irrelevant. The real argument would've been "CP3 or Chandler" and CP3 would mean that every single time. And I've already pointed out that we could've easily moved Ronny Turiaf to the Wizards (like we actually did) as we sorted out the particulars of Carmelo's and Wilson's contracts.

As for JR Smith being better than Gallo, I strongly disagree (even though there was a time when I would've agreed). Aside from last season, JR's tenure with us has not been that spectacular. Outside of two 10-15 game hot streaks, even that season was nothing to rave about, which I only realized by looking at a critique of his game by BBALL Breakdown.

So why didn't Donnie do his job???Why did he sign Chandler??..Why did he trade DLee for garbage contracts and not just let him walk if he wanted CP3??

Walsh was no longer team President during the 2011 offseason and was a certified bum anyway. As much as he managed to fulfill his objective, he royally screwed up in the execution of it. I can't think of a single trade he made that we got the better of, or that we were the better for.

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:It's time for this organization to start thinking about rebuilding around Melo..JVG said it last night...They have to entertain trade scenarios around Chandler, Shump, etc...We might have to take a second look at Lowry...

It would ahve been much easier if we didnt have to tarde so many assets for him. If he would ahve just waited to sign with us as a FA we would probably be in better shape IMO

Name those "assets"...Tell me the reason why we stink is Gallo...Stops saying assets and put names to them...

Cap space was the biggest one but picks and solid players count too

Please elaborate, Gallo had to get 10 mil which became Tyson essentially..So please elaborate...What pick..Tell me about the picks Donnie gave away to get under the cap..He could have let ZBO and the others expire..Does that count???? We traded David Lee for garbage and pointless salary back, so apparently Donnie wasn't thinking about the cap at that point..

Gallo doesn't even make half what Melo does but no one said we had to keep him anyway. If you don't know what picks we gave up in the Melo trade, you can look that up easily. I don't see what the other questions have to do with the topic.

What?????I have no clue what u are trying to say...What is the relevance of pointing out Gallo salary??...U said we would have cap space if Melo came here via free agency..I said we would have to pay Gallo 10 mil per plus Melo and Amare....The Mayor had to walk because we had no money for him...Where is the cap space???

I named the assets we gave up to get Melo. I was only replying to that part of the discussion. I wouldn't have signed Melo to a max contract salary in the off-season.

Getting Melo wasn't the problem. He deserved his contract considering the caliber of star he was/is.

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:It's time for this organization to start thinking about rebuilding around Melo..JVG said it last night...They have to entertain trade scenarios around Chandler, Shump, etc...We might have to take a second look at Lowry...

It would ahve been much easier if we didnt have to tarde so many assets for him. If he would ahve just waited to sign with us as a FA we would probably be in better shape IMO

Name those "assets"...Tell me the reason why we stink is Gallo...Stops saying assets and put names to them...

Cap space was the biggest one but picks and solid players count too

Please elaborate, Gallo had to get 10 mil which became Tyson essentially..So please elaborate...What pick..Tell me about the picks Donnie gave away to get under the cap..He could have let ZBO and the others expire..Does that count???? We traded David Lee for garbage and pointless salary back, so apparently Donnie wasn't thinking about the cap at that point..

Gallo doesn't even make half what Melo does but no one said we had to keep him anyway. If you don't know what picks we gave up in the Melo trade, you can look that up easily. I don't see what the other questions have to do with the topic.

What?????I have no clue what u are trying to say...What is the relevance of pointing out Gallo salary??...U said we would have cap space if Melo came here via free agency..I said we would have to pay Gallo 10 mil per plus Melo and Amare....The Mayor had to walk because we had no money for him...Where is the cap space???

I named the assets we gave up to get Melo. I was only replying to that part of the discussion. I wouldn't have signed Melo to a max contract salary in the off-season.

U would have signed Harden right??

Most likely. Houston got a great deal with him at $14 mil per

More closer to 16 mil per...No too different from a max deal, only space for one more max guy...Sprinkle in Lin and Asik at 15 per next year...They have to pay Parsons at least 10 mil next year...Their other max guy is Howard, who can play, we signed Amare who can't play...Surprised u still support Harden after calling Melo a volume scorer, who shoots it better than Harden...

You must not be counting the first year they got out of him for $5 mil. They're getting 6 yrs for $85 mil. Melo does not shoot better than Harden - you're just looking at the wrong #s. Their TS #s aren't remotely close. Melo will never be able to dream of scoring 24 PPG on 16 shots a game. Harden is a volume scorer, though. He's a high volume, high efficiency scorer. There's no other way to describe a .600 TS% or 1.5 points per shot.

Well if you want to count the last year on his deal with OKC when he was traded to make your numbers look good but the new deal started this year at 13.6 per over 5 years....

Silly stat u metrics look at is how many shots it takes to score whatever points...Harden is a flopper and gets to the line far more ft than Melo does..Melo shots a higher percentage from the field..If u have a player who shots 50% from the field who doesn't get to the line alot nor shoots threes, he isnt good in terms of metrics...You would say he took 20 shots to make 20 points...Metrics values three and fts more...

Melo isn't a flopper and he takes it hard to the hole...He doesn't do the Gallo/Harden head jerk to get the foul when a player comes even close to him..Metrics value that, I think he is weak for not playing a straight up game...He pushes off with one hand every time he shoots...But can't get into the metric stuff, it paints a skewed picture of reality...His field goal percentage is less than Melo tho, Melo doesn't get the calls he deserves...

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:It's time for this organization to start thinking about rebuilding around Melo..JVG said it last night...They have to entertain trade scenarios around Chandler, Shump, etc...We might have to take a second look at Lowry...

It would ahve been much easier if we didnt have to tarde so many assets for him. If he would ahve just waited to sign with us as a FA we would probably be in better shape IMO

Name those "assets"...Tell me the reason why we stink is Gallo...Stops saying assets and put names to them...

Cap space was the biggest one but picks and solid players count too

Please elaborate, Gallo had to get 10 mil which became Tyson essentially..So please elaborate...What pick..Tell me about the picks Donnie gave away to get under the cap..He could have let ZBO and the others expire..Does that count???? We traded David Lee for garbage and pointless salary back, so apparently Donnie wasn't thinking about the cap at that point..

Gallo doesn't even make half what Melo does but no one said we had to keep him anyway. If you don't know what picks we gave up in the Melo trade, you can look that up easily. I don't see what the other questions have to do with the topic.

What?????I have no clue what u are trying to say...What is the relevance of pointing out Gallo salary??...U said we would have cap space if Melo came here via free agency..I said we would have to pay Gallo 10 mil per plus Melo and Amare....The Mayor had to walk because we had no money for him...Where is the cap space???

I named the assets we gave up to get Melo. I was only replying to that part of the discussion. I wouldn't have signed Melo to a max contract salary in the off-season.

U would have signed Harden right??

Most likely. Houston got a great deal with him at $14 mil per

More closer to 16 mil per...No too different from a max deal, only space for one more max guy...Sprinkle in Lin and Asik at 15 per next year...They have to pay Parsons at least 10 mil next year...Their other max guy is Howard, who can play, we signed Amare who can't play...Surprised u still support Harden after calling Melo a volume scorer, who shoots it better than Harden...

this is an idiotic statement. harden has a 60TS% or about 5 percentage points higher than your favorite centerfold.

Melo is a career 46% shooter, Harden 44%...Harden is a flopper, TS% values floppers...

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:It's time for this organization to start thinking about rebuilding around Melo..JVG said it last night...They have to entertain trade scenarios around Chandler, Shump, etc...We might have to take a second look at Lowry...

It would ahve been much easier if we didnt have to tarde so many assets for him. If he would ahve just waited to sign with us as a FA we would probably be in better shape IMO

Name those "assets"...Tell me the reason why we stink is Gallo...Stops saying assets and put names to them...

Cap space was the biggest one but picks and solid players count too

Please elaborate, Gallo had to get 10 mil which became Tyson essentially..So please elaborate...What pick..Tell me about the picks Donnie gave away to get under the cap..He could have let ZBO and the others expire..Does that count???? We traded David Lee for garbage and pointless salary back, so apparently Donnie wasn't thinking about the cap at that point..

Gallo doesn't even make half what Melo does but no one said we had to keep him anyway. If you don't know what picks we gave up in the Melo trade, you can look that up easily. I don't see what the other questions have to do with the topic.

What?????I have no clue what u are trying to say...What is the relevance of pointing out Gallo salary??...U said we would have cap space if Melo came here via free agency..I said we would have to pay Gallo 10 mil per plus Melo and Amare....The Mayor had to walk because we had no money for him...Where is the cap space???

I named the assets we gave up to get Melo. I was only replying to that part of the discussion. I wouldn't have signed Melo to a max contract salary in the off-season.

U would have signed Harden right??

Most likely. Houston got a great deal with him at $14 mil per

More closer to 16 mil per...No too different from a max deal, only space for one more max guy...Sprinkle in Lin and Asik at 15 per next year...They have to pay Parsons at least 10 mil next year...Their other max guy is Howard, who can play, we signed Amare who can't play...Surprised u still support Harden after calling Melo a volume scorer, who shoots it better than Harden...

this is an idiotic statement. harden has a 60TS% or about 5 percentage points higher than your favorite centerfold.

Melo is a career 46% shooter, Harden 44%...Harden is a flopper, TS% values floppers...

is that what TS% does? golly and here i thought it was a good thing to be able to draw fouls. nice to watch what a macho and stoical dude melo is. he just nobly presses on. poor melo. poor poor melo.

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:It's time for this organization to start thinking about rebuilding around Melo..JVG said it last night...They have to entertain trade scenarios around Chandler, Shump, etc...We might have to take a second look at Lowry...

It would ahve been much easier if we didnt have to tarde so many assets for him. If he would ahve just waited to sign with us as a FA we would probably be in better shape IMO

Name those "assets"...Tell me the reason why we stink is Gallo...Stops saying assets and put names to them...

Cap space was the biggest one but picks and solid players count too

Please elaborate, Gallo had to get 10 mil which became Tyson essentially..So please elaborate...What pick..Tell me about the picks Donnie gave away to get under the cap..He could have let ZBO and the others expire..Does that count???? We traded David Lee for garbage and pointless salary back, so apparently Donnie wasn't thinking about the cap at that point..

Gallo doesn't even make half what Melo does but no one said we had to keep him anyway. If you don't know what picks we gave up in the Melo trade, you can look that up easily. I don't see what the other questions have to do with the topic.

What?????I have no clue what u are trying to say...What is the relevance of point out Gallo salary??...U said we would have cap space if Melo came here via free agency..I said we would have to pay Gallo 10 mil per plus Melo and Amare....The Mayor had to walk because we had no money form him...Where is the cap space???

If I remember correctly, Donnie created cap space for Melo in that FA summer. Similar to what he did for Amare.

OK Melo and Amare get their money then we resign Gallo a year later to 10 mil which essentially is Chandler's salary, so where is the additional cap space???

No. You trade the Melo package (Gallo, Wilson, etc.) for CP3 and enjoy Finals run, after Finals run watching two stars at their best. Melo demanding that trade was part of our demise. The three landmark decisions that landed us in this predicament are: (1) Capitulating to the Nuggets trade demands, (2) Using the amnesty on Billups instead of Amare and (3) Letting Lin walk without compensation; in that order.

We had to let Wilson walk if we were to sign Melo...U can blame Melo for asking for a trade, but Donnie was driving the bus...How about not signing Chandler or resigning Billups..Trade Gallo for smaller pieces to create space for CP3...Enough money there for CP3as a free agent???..But u know they had zero intention on trading Gallo...Gallo was like MDA's son...

We didn't have to let Wilson walk. We could've easily sign and traded him away for a cheaper player or draft pick. Remember that he was a restricted free agent. More importantly, we could've just as easily traded a lesser player like Ronny Turiaf, to accommodate Wilson's cap hold, while we worked out Melo's contract. I'm not sure why you are arguing against these guys being assets, when the contrary is clearly evident.

NO, the consensus on the board was that Wilson would have to walk to sign Melo..I think the new CBA would not have allowed a sign and trade anyway...

(1)The CBA would've allowed a trade. (2)The consensus on the board doesn't dictate reality. Then again, I'm assuming that this franchise would make the logical (trading Turiaf to have more time to maximize Wilson's value), so maybe I've lost touch of reality.

Neither do you..But I trust what the general thinking was at the time than what you are saying now...It was based of numerous articles on our cap situation...I think u are trying to rewrite history...

Let's do the math then. The cap was at $58 million.

Had we not made the Melo deal, we would've had the following players under contract heading into the 2011 offseason: Raymond Felton ($7 million), Landry Fields ($800,000), Amar'e Stoudemire ($18.2 million), Andy Rautins ($800,000), Toney Douglas ($1.1 million), Ronny Turiaf ($4.3 million), Timofey Mozgov ($3.3 million), Iman Shumpert ($1.6 million), Josh Harrellson ($500,000), Jerome Jordan ($500,000) and Danilo Gallinari ($4.1 million). Wilson Chandler would've been approximately a $4 million cap hold, and the three vacant roster spots would create an additional $1.5 million cap hold. In total, that amounts to about $47.2 million in salary, which is $10.8 million below the cap.

So you're somewhat right, we couldn't sign Melo outright.....but we certainly could've created the space to do so rather easily. That would've been unnecessary though. The Nuggets would've lost all leverage that late into the game, which would've driven down the cost for Melo. Wilson Chandler ($4-$6 million) and Turiaf ($4.3 million) could've been dealt for Melo, which would've put us over the cap. Then Gallo could've been traded to the Hornets ($4.1 million) along with Landry Fields ($800,000), Raymond Felton ($7 million), Timofey Mozgov ($3.3 million) and Melo's draft picks for CP3 ($16 million). Mathematically, it was possible to add both Melo and CP3 had we not blew our leverage and assets on Melo alone.

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:It's time for this organization to start thinking about rebuilding around Melo..JVG said it last night...They have to entertain trade scenarios around Chandler, Shump, etc...We might have to take a second look at Lowry...

It would ahve been much easier if we didnt have to tarde so many assets for him. If he would ahve just waited to sign with us as a FA we would probably be in better shape IMO

Name those "assets"...Tell me the reason why we stink is Gallo...Stops saying assets and put names to them...

Cap space was the biggest one but picks and solid players count too

Please elaborate, Gallo had to get 10 mil which became Tyson essentially..So please elaborate...What pick..Tell me about the picks Donnie gave away to get under the cap..He could have let ZBO and the others expire..Does that count???? We traded David Lee for garbage and pointless salary back, so apparently Donnie wasn't thinking about the cap at that point..

Gallo doesn't even make half what Melo does but no one said we had to keep him anyway. If you don't know what picks we gave up in the Melo trade, you can look that up easily. I don't see what the other questions have to do with the topic.

What?????I have no clue what u are trying to say...What is the relevance of pointing out Gallo salary??...U said we would have cap space if Melo came here via free agency..I said we would have to pay Gallo 10 mil per plus Melo and Amare....The Mayor had to walk because we had no money for him...Where is the cap space???

I named the assets we gave up to get Melo. I was only replying to that part of the discussion. I wouldn't have signed Melo to a max contract salary in the off-season.

U would have signed Harden right??

Most likely. Houston got a great deal with him at $14 mil per

More closer to 16 mil per...No too different from a max deal, only space for one more max guy...Sprinkle in Lin and Asik at 15 per next year...They have to pay Parsons at least 10 mil next year...Their other max guy is Howard, who can play, we signed Amare who can't play...Surprised u still support Harden after calling Melo a volume scorer, who shoots it better than Harden...

this is an idiotic statement. harden has a 60TS% or about 5 percentage points higher than your favorite centerfold.

Melo is a career 46% shooter, Harden 44%...Harden is a flopper, TS% values floppers...

is that what TS% does? golly and here i thought it was a good thing to be able to draw fouls. nice to watch what a macho and stoical dude melo is. he just nobly presses on. poor melo. poor poor melo.

So u like Harden's game where he constantly jerks his head as he goes into the lane to draw fouls that really aren't fouls???

no i like that a player can draw fouls by using gamesmanship. it shows craftiness and guile, something that melo and his fans don't understand or appreciate. it doesn't help your case when you realize that melo gets to the line just as often as harden and lebron james.

there is no reason why he could not be a 60TS% player, taking 16-18 shots a game, getting to the line 10 times a game. his 3point shooting is actually pretty ok the last couple of years. but his game lacks craft and guile. look at durant and lbj and pierce in his prime: craft and guile. another thing they have in common that melo doesn't have is that, even though their usage rates are high, their assist rates are also high, meaning that they create cohesion.

i can't emphasize that last point enough.